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The Batman - Rate And Review Thread (Spoilers)

Pros:
  • the atmosphere. Of all the Bat films, this one nailed the feel of Gotham. It was seedy, grimy, corrupt, and broken. The constant nighttime and rain scenes weren't lost on me and maybe they leaned on those aesthetics a bit much at times, but they definitely worked so I can't complain too much
  • The casting. Zoe is the best Catwoman we've seen on-screen so far. I swear, I thought it was like Year One Selina brought to life and I loved every moment she was on-camera. Colin Farrell; like, damn. The guy is an underappreciated actor and was great as Penguin. Paul Dano is also the best Riddler yet (though that isn't saying much as there's not much of a bar to pass). This Riddler was terrifying and felt like a real threat rather some goofball trying to be a discount Joker.
  • The action. I think Pattinson's build helped a great deal by being a smaller Bruce who had more in common with Bruce Lee rather than Charles Atlas liked Affleck. He was fast and agile in combat and it was like seeing the Arkham games brought to life. I liked seeing Catwoman get hers as well as she's always been a capable fighter and while we did get that with Anne Hathaway, I prefer Kravitz.
  • The Batsuit. This is the most functional & realistic suit we've seen onscreen so far and it looked pretty damn intimidating to boot. The squirrel-suit caught me off guard at first, but! I was very intrigued and that little detail, I think, makes it the most realistic suit to date. The cowl...I'm still 50/50 on. Looking at it head-on it looks great, but from the side, I still think the forehead is too big.
  • The rooftop scenes with Bat and Cat put a smile on my face. They felt like they could have come right out of, well, any Bat comic ever.
Cons:
  • this may be controversial but, Pattinson. I just...he was a great Batman. I loved that this film leaned more into his detective side and Pattinson nailed Batman as a dark and brooding character. But I'm not sold on his Bruce Wayne. I didn't feel like there was any distinction between Bruce and Batman as separate entities. Say what you will about Bale and Keaton, but I think they were able to keep both personalities separate in the necessary ways. Also, Pattinson's hairstyle didn't help. He looked more like a big teenager rather than a grown man.
  • The Joker cameo at the end. I'm over the Joker. Between Heath and Joaquin, we don't need another Joker-centric film. I want other villains, such as an Arkham Origins-style Bane, Man-Bat, Clayface, Madhatter....give someone else a chance to shine.
  • Suspension of disbelief moment; when Batman is with the bomb-strapped D.A. and the bomb literally blows up in his face. Bruh; come on. I don't care about silly plot armour, that's killing you on the freaking spot.
  • The length. This film needed more editing. It didn't need to be nearly three hours in length.
I give this a 9/10. Pattinson's lack of distinction between Bruce and Bats keep it from being perfect for me because the characters more one-note than he should've been, but I'm happy to say this is my second favourite Batman film after TDK (obviously; nothing will top TDK).


I believe reeves went for early Batman comics Bruce persona, in which like in ego he had a hard time separating the two.

I doubt you’ll see much more of joker, according to the latest variety article reeves has no intentions of putting him in future films at this time.
 
So what you're saying is instead of just talking about what you loved about the movie itself like just about everyone else here, you listed everything you disliked about TDK (which took up the majority of your review) because that was the only way you could verbalize what you liked about this movie.

Btw saying TDK is not as great as everyone says it is, to use your own words; that's just your perspective.

There are plenty of people here in this thread that have stated that The Batman isn’t as good as TDK for them and that’s perfectly fine. So, when I say the opposite that’s a personal problem for you somehow? I didn’t list everything that I didn’t like about TDK and I literally mentioned that. I’m also not here to get into a debate with you about my opinion. The Batman is an A+ for me and that’s the end of it.
 
There are plenty of people here in this thread that have stated that The Batman isn’t as good as TDK for them and that’s perfectly fine. So, when I say the opposite that’s a personal problem for you somehow? I didn’t list everything that I didn’t like about TDK and I literally mentioned that. I’m also not here to get into a debate with you about my opinion. The Batman is an A+ for me and that’s the end of it.

There's a huge difference between someone saying at the end of an actual review that they enjoyed this movie more than other Batman movies after they've spent most of the review actually reviewing the movie. I've yet to see a review, here or anywhere else, that spends the majority of its content listing their criticisms against a completely different movie. That's why it stood out like sore thumb to me. That's not a review. That's just trying to make one movie look worse than the other.

I'm not debating with you about why you liked or disliked anything about either movie. That's your own perfectly entitled opinion. I'm talking about your method of "reviewing" the movie. Very happy for you that you enjoyed The Batman though. Maybe in future posts we'll see some details on what you really liked about it. Your thoughts on the performances of each of the main characters, the Batmobile, Gotham City, action scenes, nods to the comics, the Joker scene, maybe even things that didn't work for you if any. The usual stuff you see in actual reviews.
 
This is one of the best Batman movies. It's flawed, but I loved it. This is most definitely a detective story. A moody, grim detective noir that takes its time and is never concerned with checking off the obligatory superhero movie boxes. The first half was giving TDK run for its money, the second half, when the mystery unfolds, and when it gets the eventual conclusion, not quite as strong. I'm a little disappointed considering how long the scriptwriting process was that I was expecting more of a top rate mystery. The whole reason Riddler did it made me go, "That's it?" This movie at its core doesn't do much new. It's another "Gotham is corrupt" story. I guess the solution was that Falcone is running the city. All right then! I understand the theme was more about how we're all corrupt. And I like the idea of it leading to Falcone just murdering this girl for knowing that, but if you're going to do an All the President's Men type conspiracy story, I wish the execution was better. I'm surprised this is more All the President's Men than Se7en.

The way this mystery was constructed was flawed. There are elements that should have been set up that come into play in the second half, such as the dam, Riddler's followers (needed to show more of an escalation after the funeral scene) even Thomas Wayne. New pieces of information that are revelatory don't hold as much impact because we're just learning them. Even the Thomas Wayne stuff feels a little superfluous in its execution. With mysteries, shocking revelations is information recontextualized set up earlier when the detective wasn't looking in that direction. I think it would have helped if the Thomas Wayne stuff was set up earlier.

I didn't have as much of a problem with the climax though. I was worried it would devolve into schlock "Batman must save the city from this flood!" but I appreciated how the climax was just Batman thwarting this assassination attempt. Maybe could have been better if Riddler had a more interesting motive.

Reeves wasn't kidding about The Taxi Driver and Klute inspirations. The movie is more stylized, but the performances are the most realistic I've seen in any Batman movie yet. Pattinson is excellent of course, more silent and scary. His footsteps are creepy in and of itself like the Frankenstein monster. Loved the narration.

Kravitz was a great Selina. She's less Catwoman and more of a woman just fighting for her life. I got real Jane Fonda Klute vibes. Dano was strong, more over the top than I was expecting. He's more of a catalyst for exposing Gotham's corruption than the Buffalo Bill or John Doe monster at the end of the tunnel. Wright was a terrific Gordon. Serkis was a fine Alfred. And of course Farrell was an amazing Tony Soprano-esque Penguin.

Giachinno's score is one of his best in years. Unnerving and creepy.

I hated the Joker scene. I suspected Joker was in this, but that was so tacked on, and I don't like Keogan in the role at all. But apparently, they shot a scene where Batman goes to Arkham and gets the Joker's help with Riddler's riddles in a Hannibal Lecter style scene. The movie's three hours, might as well put it in. This should have been set up. If you have to include the Joker, I like the idea of these two already having a relationship.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Reeves does next. But for a movie that looked and suggested to do some new interesting things given the genre and director, if you've seen Batman movies and are a fan, the story itself doesn't do a whole lot new even if it's solid. But it's a unique and great looking and personal Batman film directed by Matt Reeves. If you're going to continue detective Batman, and I hope Reeves does, you need to write a better mystery and push things more. I really hope it's not Batman going up against the Joker.

8/10

Objective Ranking:

1. TDK
2. BB
3. BR
4. The Batman
5. Batman '89
6. The Dark Knight Rises
7. Batman Forever
8. Batman and Robin
You don’t rank Batman 66?
 
There's a huge difference between someone saying at the end of an actual review that they enjoyed this movie more than other Batman movies after they've spent most of the review actually reviewing the movie. I've yet to see a review, here or anywhere else, that spends the majority of its content listing their criticisms against a completely different movie. That's why it stood out like sore thumb to me. That's not a review. That's just trying to make one movie look worse than the other.

I'm not debating with you about why you liked or disliked anything about either movie. That's your own perfectly entitled opinion. I'm talking about your method of "reviewing" the movie. Very happy for you that you enjoyed The Batman though. Maybe in future posts we'll see some details on what you really liked about it. Your thoughts on the performances of each of the main characters, the Batmobile, Gotham City, action scenes, nods to the comics, the Joker scene, maybe even things that didn't work for you if any. The usual stuff you see in actual reviews.

Eventually I will give my full in depth review of The Batman after a few more viewings. I’ve mentioned things about The Batman in other threads as well. In this particular thread I rated The Batman against what’s considered to be the greatest Batman film. I made it perfectly clear multiple times that TDK is a good movie, but you continuously insinuate that I’m negatively criticizing the film. I’m not. You claim that I’m “trying” to make one movie look wise than the other. That’s a poor assumption. I’m also trying to keep my posts to a minimum, because my page keeps refreshing, but that’s a personal issue. Otherwise, I would saying a lot more.
 
This film however truly gets it. You could seriously feel the fear in the criminals when Batman stepped out of the shadows like a damn vampire.

See,I don't think they were actually afraid of him. The criminal element ranged from hesistant, weirded out, amused, cocky, etc, and the cops are annoyed/distrustful, but no one's actually scared of him, except the Gothamites.

Which is a nice take on the absurdity of what he chooses to do.
 
See,I don't think they were actually afraid of him. The criminal element ranged from hesistant, weirded out, amused, cocky, etc, and the cops are annoyed/distrustful, but no one's actually scared of him, except the Gothamites.

Which is a nice take on the absurdity of what he chooses to do.
Wait….did you see the beginning?
 
Wait….did you see the beginning?

I think that and Guard's take aren't necessarily mutually exclusive

People are scared of Batman as a concept. They know he's out there, lurking in the shadows. But A: not everyone knows about him and B: they don't know what he looks like. So they can be both scared, amused and weirded out that way.
 
Just got home after my first viewing. I give it a 8.5 out of ten. I really liked it a lot. And it all worked for me. The 3rd act, the joker scene, the lot. I didn't find any scenes too long either. Loved all the actors in there roles. So I'm very satisfied. I not going to compare to Nolan's 3 films until this 3 is finished. There was enough difference's between Begins and this one so you don't have to compare. I think with repeat viewings My rating will only go up. My 10 out 10s are the likes of Raiders , Empire strikes Back. So this is a high rating for me on my first viewing. Very happy. I just hope it makes a ton of money so Reeves vision can carry on.
 
Saw this today. I have to see it again (and again and again probably) to figure out where this movie fits into my Top 3 Batman Films (BB and TDK are in the other two slots). But regardless… this movie might be the Batman movie of my dreams. Just excellent.

What I Liked

This film really does a great job of showing you how corrupt Gotham is. You got a sense of it in previous movies with a dirty cop here and there but the Riddler’s schemes expose the city for the toxic cesspool that it is. It forces Batman to not only re-examine his own family’s involvement but question his own mission and whether he’s doing more harm than good.

There are so many cool little nods to things in the comics that only diehard fans will get. Stuff I caught:
  • A tease of Hush potentially being a future villain, getting revenge for his dad, Edward Elliot (or, maybe in true Hush fashion, we’ll find out that he actually killed his dad and not Falcone)
  • Selina’s Year One get-up when she goes to confront Falcone at the end and then giving him his trademark facial scar
  • Gotham’s overall aesthetic isn’t as extreme as the Burton films but it definitely has that gothic feel. It definitely has a more comic book feel than I was expecting.
  • I feel like the Joker tease at the end and Thomas Wayne running for mayor may imply that this film takes place in a universe that’s… similar to the one in Joker? Not the same universe exactly but one where similar events played out. It makes me wonder if in early drafts of the script, it was the same universe. Maybe not though.
What I Loved

Pattinson owns the role as Batman. And I do mean as Batman. He spends probably 75% of his scenes in full costume. That’s a bold choice and one that I know fans have been craving for a long time. I can go either way; I’m fine with more Bruce scenes than Batman scenes as long as Batman doesn’t feel like a side character (*cough*Batman Returns*cough*) but it’s certainly cool to see him in full bat gear throughout. As for the performance, I wasn’t sure at first because he seemed a bit too reserved but as the situation escalates, Batman intensifies as well. You really FEEL it when he pounds the crap out of the bad guys.

Zoe Kravitz is the BEST Selina Kyle. I was never as big on Pfeiffer’s take as everyone else is; it’s less to do with her performance and more to do with the origin and giving her super powers. That never sat right with me. Here we get a Selina with a painful past who learned to fend for herself in a harsh world. Her chemistry with Batman is fire and I can’t wait to see Selina in her full costume next time.

Paul Dano is legitimately terrifying and his creepy Riddler cult definitely feels like something that could happen in the real world. I don’t know if Reeves came up with the final sequence after January 6 or if it’s just a coincidence but those psychos really felt like some Qanon insurrectionists. Regardless, the Riddler is a truly scary villain and I’ll be hearing that VOICE in my nightmares. It’s amazing; whether it’s distorted and lowered or just Dano speaking in his “normal” Riddler voice, he’s equally creepy.

Colin Farrell is fantastic as the Penguin and that makeup job is phenomenal. The makeup team deserves an Oscar, easily. Wow. But also, this is the first time I’ve seen a Penguin who genuinely felt threatening and not a punchline. Can’t wait to see more of Oswald.

Jeffrey Wright is definitely my favorite Gordon. No disrespect to Gary Oldman, but this is the first time I’ve seen a Gordon who really felt like Batman’s equal (or as close as a good cop can be). I really liked their buddy cop dynamic.

Andy Serkis and John Turturro also really shine in smaller roles. They’re both highly effective and Turturro is easily the best Falcone yet.

As someone who found the Carver twins annoying AF on The Leftovers, I loved seeing them get their asses kicked so much that it became like a running joke throughout the movie. I hope they come back in the sequel just to get beaten up more.

Also, as a huge Black Sails fan, it was nice to see Woodes Rogers and Thomas Hamilton again.

And about the Joker tease…

I’m glad it was just that - a bit of foreshadowing of things to come. When it was rumored that the Joker would appear, I was worried that he would swoop in an steal the focus away from the Riddler and I’m glad that didn’t happen. We didn’t even get a clear look at him, which was great. I can’t honestly say whether he had green hair and white skin. I think I saw facial scars, and perhaps that’s why that knockout gang at the beginning had a similar look. Or maybe not. Guess we’ll see…

What I’m not sure about

It was a little bit of cop out to have the Riddler not actually know who Batman is. That’s less of a fault of the movie and more of a fault of the marketing, which clearly implied that he knew. I think if you’re going to play that card, then you have to follow through with it. So it irks me a bit that the trailers kinda lied to us. But maybe that’s a good thing because it kept the movie from being predictable? Eh, I don’t know.

I don’t know if the length will keep the movie from being as revered as TDK. I personally love a long movie if it’s good. But after things wrap up with Falcone, there was a moment where I felt like we reached the end of the movie and then it dawned on me that the Riddler’s story hadn’t wrapped up at all. That was fine but I wonder if the movie’s only real flaw is that it tries to do a bit too much. But maybe that’s what makes it great. I don’t know.

Anyway, all in all, it’s a fantastic movie. Whether you’re a diehard Batman fan, just a casual one or just someone who enjoys great movies, this is a movie you should see.

9.5/10
 
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Two more things about the movie I thought about:

- On the script. As many others are saying the screenplay is far to be perfect. It's too didacting and some things are quite disappointing, of course.
But the more I think about the movie the more I can say it left me some very specific vibes.
It's like Reeves' point was to do a classic/cult and pulp movie. Scenes like Gordon doing a fake interrogatory to the Batman, a lot of funny one-line, Penguin's interrogatory, all the climax of the wonderful final confrontation with Falcone should not be considered as "not original" but, I think, as a precise will to do this kind of movie.
Plus, there are some scenes going in the direction of BTAS. A serious movie but potentially for children too (like Burton's movies).
I think it's very refreshing after two directors - Nolan and Snyder - with the obsession to prove that those are movies for adults.
Reeves embraces the fact that Batman is a pop culture and, yes, for a lot of different kind of audience too.
I wait to see the next movies and series to understand how much these franchise is "child-oriented", but I think and I hope Reeves will find an equilibrium and will take this movies as something complex and deep without taking themselves too much seriously.

2. Contemporary themes. Reeves' Gotham is "timeless" and this fit great because it seems a city that never had a true renewal.
But there's something more: it has a lot of contemporary themes too.
I was afraid that Bella Rèal was going to much on a didactic way to blink an eye to the politically correct, but I have to say the thing is functional to the plot and it's not didactic.

But what was a real surprise was the Riddler. The scene of the final video with the mask but with his true voice speaking how much the community helped him was quite brilliant.
Reeves found a very fresh and solid way to speak about what means to be an inspiration for people of Gotham: the social media influencers.
Batman is "Mr Vengeance", it's almost an obsession throw the movie, it's like he influenced the lower class of he city to be even more violent (and that's a good way to go on the way "the presence of Batman creates the freaks itself").
Nashton has created a persona in the Riddler after Batman. He is a villain of course, but he becomes a true antagonist of Batman in the ending (before, he sees him as an accomplish). That's because he is just a psycho boy seeking for revenge.
How many of similar fellas find a place in social media today? How many of them end to take a gun?
Speaking of which, and here I close this post, the movie seems to open to an a very contemporary and interesting take on US society.
Nolan's era was about a post-11 september America. Batman's enemies are mostly terrorists.
Reeves' era, as it seeems right now, is more about the untrust in the corrupted institution which abandons a lot of people and creates social pain, desperation and rage. And so... Freaks.
That's post-Trump USA, in a way.

Basically, that's what Phillips wanted to do with the Joker, but he totally failed IMO, with a pointless 80s setting and with a basic and self-pity plot.
 
Well, having come out of the film, I give it a B+ overall.

There's definitely room for improvement, and room to grow imo, but overall, its a strong foundation to start with.

I'm not with my fellow fanboys in thinking it's " The Best Batman movie ever!".
That title still remains with TDK and BB imo.

There may are gonna be fans who don't agree with that. Fair enough.

That said, I would put it ahead of TDKR , and I would say it is one of the better Batman films in general.

Pattinson's Batman was good.
Kravitz was good.
Farrell and Dano were both awesome.
Wright was good, then again, the brother is always good.

Would have liked to have seen more of Serkis's Alfred.

I do think the film was too long, and I actually don't think they needed the 3rd act to play out the way it did, though, I get what Reeves was going for, and the message he wanted to send.

At the same time, I do hope the next film has more levity to it .
I know the idea of levity in humor in these types of films has become a trigger for fanboys, but, I do hope they next film tries to incorporate more of it in the sequel.
Again, others may disagree with that , fair enough.

So all in all, a worthy entry to the Batman film canon.
 
Wait….did you see the beginning?

He says they're scared. But that's not what we end up seeing. They're certainly hesitant, weirded out, nervous, etc. I don't remember anyone actually being afraid of him. The drophead, to some extent.
 
What I like now, is moving forward, I feel Bruce will want to do more as 'himself'... he knows/realises he has the means to help a lot of people that he's been neglecting and with Alfred supportive of that, added fact that Bruce is glad Alfred is around, I feel we will see more public persona Bruce. He'll show up to events and whilst I am not saying he will be a playboy, I feel we will see him not give a hoot when he is around elites - he won't be impressed, knowing half are corrupt and he will not play their game and maybe have a hint of arrogance to it.

what we saw was a bruce who was more focused on the batman, rather than the bigger picture - hence the lack of 'style' and working with Alfred.
 
Yes please. I really really hope we see Freeze in this trilogy. It's long over due! Same for Robin.

I'm trying to think of one thing I had a slight nitpick over, but there really isn't much. I think maybe it's that Bruce Wayne and Batman kinda felt like one, but even that is minor. I'm sure this Bruce will grow into something like that over the course of the trilogy. Really great film overall, and in my top 3 Batman movies ever behind TDK and Begins. It's truly an amazing time to be a Batman fan again. Amazing directors and actors continuing to bring this character to life in new and fresh ways. We have now officially entered the Reeves era and I am one happy Batman fan.

Yeah I hear your concern there but I think Reeves/Pattinson have interpreted it as "there is no bruce" that bruce is irrelevant and that batman is his true face. I find that to be an interesting take and personally I'm open to exploring that on screen. Pattinson was in costume more than out in this movie and I want that to be a common thread throughout wherever this series takes us.
 
First feelings upon leaving the theater is that I had a great time. I was somewhat unsure going in since bits of discussions I'd stumbled on made the movie sound almost too bleak. But in the end it was just a really good Batman movie.

There was definitely some dark stuff that happened. But...a lot of dark stuff happens in a lot of Batman movies. So it actually felt pretty comfortable considering this is Batman. Things around him should be that uneasy.

I appreciated how they handled things with the Wayne family. It was complicated. They didn't go too far and make Bruce's father secretly a monster. He was a good guy that was legitimately trying to make the city a better place. But he was also human. When cornered and his family at risk...he made a bad call. But he didn't ever want things to go the way they did and was ready to go to jail himself in response. He just didn't get to do that.

It was also a good arc for Batman overall. The Riddler provided a painful example of his efforts paying off in the worst way. So focused on being a force of vengeance that he inspired the wrong people in the wrong way. Spending a good amount of time at the end of the movie saving people and being a hero was a good step. And it was set up nicely early on. He was creating fear in criminals. But he was also creating fear in the good people as well. People he saved being as afraid of him as the criminals were. I think this will also inspire him to make use of "Bruce" more. That he could use the resources he has to try and help orphans and avoid the creation of more Riddler-types. He can use those resources for more than just his battle as Batman.

I do think 'The Dark Knight' remains top of the Batman pile. But this is a good entry. I like a lot of what they tried to do here and there's a great foundation to make more movies. I'll say it's an 8/10. It's a good movie for sure.
 
It was a good fun flick that had enough of everything. Action, mystery, horror, emotion. It was all good. My own hangups on the Batsuit aside, Pattinson's eyes really do convey a lot of what he is feeling. I cast my vote for an 8, and I look forward to what Reeves will do next.
 
I'm not sure I would say The Batman, as a film, is better than TDK. They are comparable, though TDK at its peak is more thrilling and compelling. With that said, The Batman is my favorite Batman movie. It feels the most true to the character, focuses most on Batman himself, and the character arc he actually undergoes is fantastic. It's an engrossing detective noir, and while the third act is a bit clumsy (particularly the Wayne reveal and Riddler's somewhat out of left field final plan), the ending left me emotional. When Batman lights the flare and leads people through the flood out of the darkness -- that was a beautiful visual culmination of the film's emotional payoff. The dichotomy between the reactions from the first person Batman saves and the last underpins what makes this movie so good -- Batman isn't just vengeance anymore, he's a true hero. Couple the strong thematic resonance with the best Batman we've seen on screen, the best action choreography, and the most dynamic and visually interesting Gotham City, and there's just one conclusion I can come to: The Batman is the best Batman film, and my personal favorite.
 
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This is definitely cinema.

I love that this movie exists. I love that it’s a noir that is nonetheless pretty much a spot on adaption of the character with modern twists. It’s weirdly faithful, without adapting any one storyline from any source.

I wonder how many people understand that this movie is simultaneously embracing Batman and poking fun at him and subverting the concept itself. Everyone around Batman who isn’t being beat to a pulp or watching him do so pretty much finds him silly, annoying, counterproductive, etc.

And God bless them for putting so many puns into this movie the way they did.

The film has a lot of glaring flaws…because it’s a full on noir take. The characters, setting and concepts are recognizeable enough, but this is both visually and conceptually a noir (the superfluous collar is a nod to the visual image created by the collar of a trenchcoat, even the cape hangs and moves like a trenchcoat, and he’s just walking into/through crime scenes, not moving like a creature of the night).

While this movie is about him as a detective, he’s not anything close to the World’s Greatest Detective here. He may never be. He’s the World’s Greatest Gumshoe, in true noir fashion. He has a rudimentarty knowledge of crime scenes, forensics, etc. This is a very human, fallible Batman. He’s solving crimes through trial and error, which is how real detective work...works.

In the end, in true noir fashion, he’s more than a step behind the bad guys due to his blind spots (blind as a…), and he almost bumbles his way into saving the day, like a classic gumshoe does. The mystery he DOES solve is the impetus behind his own motivations, ambitiously and emotionally. I love that there are dual mysteries running through the movie. One for Bruce and one for Batman, and that they dovetail. That's one of the unique structural things about this movie.

I’ve seen some complaints about story VS character,a relative lack of character development or exploration. And that’s true. But a lot of the issues people have are because Reeves did in fact go almost full noir. Going back to the same settings three, four times before it matters? Noir. Femme fatale introducing story elements? Noir. Cop friend greasing the wheels for the detective? Noir.

And as a noir, as is tradition, because of the focus on story and already formed characters, the exploration of character concepts remains a little surface. Which holds the film back when it tries to explore some of its more ambitious ideas. For instance, Catwoman isn’t given a lot of depth, but she’s so well situated as both the femme fatale/damsel iconography within the noir genre that it’s hard to say they still didn’t nail it with the character,both in the noir sense, and as an adaption of Selina Kyle. Especially the story points, going from trying to find her loved one to us slowly discovering secrets about her life to true CATharsis related to both.

In general, the movie feels like “A week in the life of Batman”, which is exactly what the detective's story should be in a noir take. It’s an important week, to be sure, and a formative one, but still just a week in the life of Batman.

I thought Pattinson was good…for this very specific version of the character. Visually, he’s well cast. His Batvoice was just okay, although it was consistent, which was nice. I saw a review that said he seemed almost ambivalent about his fate as Batman. He doesn’t seem exactly menacing in this movie, which is borne out when people make fun of and try to sidetrack him (another noir trope). I would say he seems more in a meditative state as the character. Being Batman is, rather paradoxically, the only time he seems to find peace and purpose. When he’s not Batman, he’s pretty much strung out and miserable and chasing the high. It’s portrayed an obsession bordering on an addiction, and he pushes it further and further.

This movie is about Bruce rediscovering his humanity, which was always there below his mask. It's there from the beginning. He’s presenting as this uber violent vengeance driven character, but that’s not actually what he is. There are clues to this throughout the film, from his first fight to his compassionate outreach. despite how much he broods or how obsessed and violent he seems. And that’s what he slowly realizes, scene by scene, and then we see the compassion go into overdrive, and it’s brief and not all that brilliant, but still very satisfying. It’s like he realizes how simple what he needs to do is, and he just starts doing it.

The wry humor is great. “Thumb…drive.” The noir/crime lingo usually lands on at least one level.

I got a chuckle that even this is grounded, he still has the ridiculous rapidly winching grapple gun that can nab the feet of falling people. Liked some of the other gadgets, the computer tech, the lenses, the wingsuit, the rappelling line. He treats them as tools of the trade, their origins aren’t dwelled on. I would have loved to have seen them homage the ”swinging on a rope” thing at some point, but what’s in the movie works very well as is.

Ironically, the noir approach, and the subversion of cliches, is what keeps this one in the very good category vs being a truly great film and adaption of the character. We’ve seen a lot of this before, including elements of the suit. As such, It’s…comfortable. A bit like coming home. But despite being comfortable, it also gives us things we haven’t seen on film (A truly compassionate Batman who won’t kill and doesn’t generally use violence when he doesn’t have to).

Some of the moments in the film seem to function as outright homages to other Batman films, including the Schumacher ones. And quite a few of the themes, the concepts have been done…just not quite like this.

Some of the cinematic homages are obvious; Chinatown, The French Connection(flying Batmobile), Klute, Se7en. But as a whole, it’s very close to being a masterpiece on its own merits. Reeves never dwells on those influences, nor is this movie a hodpodge of them; he makes this his own. And he directed the heck out of this. There is some really good visual storytelling. What character’s don’t say informs the moments unfolding. The flood is the compassionate imagery compared to the violence of fire. In the graveyard, Batman is choosing life VS dwelling on the past. Stuff like that will give this film lasting value beyond entertainment.

Storywise, This is a good crime/mystery film in the same way that The Dark Knight was kind of a silly, heightened one. But in a way, this franchise and Nolan’s, as more grounded pieces of the mythology, actually complement each other very well. This film probably wouldn’t work as well if previous Batman comics, series and films didn’t exist, hadn’t set certain foundations. We take his origin story, his armor, his gadgets, the car, his allies, the villains, the locales, as a matter of course. Because they are familiar. So the film doesn’t really get points for including some of them, and skipping thematic development in certain areas. But the noir take is compelling. It has a noirish deft touch when it comes to character development. You have to connect the dots about why Bruce does what he does, how he feels about his family’s legacy, and why he went in this direction instead of doing what his parents did and what other elements of Gotham seem to want him to do.

The cast is excellent. No one is truly brilliant, but as an ensemble, they complement each other really well.

THE BATMAN will hold up and have rewatchability, even just visually. The cinematography is absolutely incredible. The use of light, shadow, different tones, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a character slightly turning or tilting their head look so damn striking.

Giacchino’s score is lush and romantic and classic, with a few modern twists and nods to other composers' work on the character.

This one will grow on me. Definitely hungry for more. You can see where this is going, with vacant Commissioner and DA jobs, a new Mayor, Joker/Riddler, Zero Year/No Man’s Land elements. A Penguin/mob spinoff. Arkham spinoff. A possible Catwoman spinoff. Good times ahead.

And for the actual sequel, given the characters introduced…could be any one of them featured. But which one?

Which...ones?

The four of them…their forces combined…

When all is said and done, this may end up being the definitive modern portrayal of Batman. Ranking the versions and films right now seems kind of pointless, though, as there's too much to chew on about this one. We have several really good Batman movies. Reeves said it himself. It’s about bringing something new to it. And he did. And we get more Batman THIS YEAR. It’s a great time to be a Batman fan.
Love these thoughts. Still bringing fantastic takes after all these years.
 
I thought Pattinson was good…for this very specific version of the character. Visually, he’s well cast. His Batvoice was just okay, although it was consistent, which was nice. I saw a review that said he seemed almost ambivalent about his fate as Batman. He doesn’t seem exactly menacing in this movie, which is borne out when people make fun of and try to sidetrack him (another noir trope). I would say he seems more in a meditative state as the character. Being Batman is, rather paradoxically, the only time he seems to find peace and purpose. When he’s not Batman, he’s pretty much strung out and miserable and chasing the high. It’s portrayed an obsession bordering on an addiction, and he pushes it further and further.

This is an interesting observation. Pattinson did something very subtle but effective which I noticed during the movie but didn't really think about much after until I read your post; he brought a palpable tension and unease to Bruce Wayne, making him appear uncomfortable and distracted. Yet when he was in the Batman suit, for most of the time (when he wasn't involved in an action scene or skirmish) he looked the opposite - still, calm, serene - moving slowly and methodically, rarely seeming out of sorts.

This is a very different approach to previous takes where the Wayne persona was the smooth and charming playboy, and Batman the more gruff and rage-filled one. Yet it was extremely effective. It will be interesting to see if his Wayne now develops more into the traditional version of the character that we've come to know in most mediums.
 

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