The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Rises Info Hunters Thread - - - Part 21

[RedIsNotBlue]

I am pretty confident we will see young Talia and quite possibly Tate will end up being Talia grown up.

 

[Citadel30]

Does anyone else think that Catwoman may be the "Joker" of this film?? Not really having much development, kinda just coming and going throughout the film randomly - similar to the Joker. In TDK, Harvey was the story - Joker was just the rash that wouldnt go away. It looks like Bane is going to get the character development and Catwoman could just end up being some bad-ass burgler who eludes Batman most of the film and adds some exciting action sequences.

 

[The_Raganork]

Does anyone else think that Catwoman may be the "Joker" of this film?? Not really having much development, kinda just coming and going throughout the film randomly - similar to the Joker. In TDK, Harvey was the story - Joker was just the rash that wouldnt go away.

Why would you think that?

Everything so far has shown the opposite of this

It looks like Bane is going to get the character development and Catwoman could just end up being some bad-ass burgler who eludes Batman most of the film and adds some exciting action sequences.

Why does it look this way to you again?

Joker was shown first

Bane was shown first.

Catwoman has always served to be a point of possible contention and admiration for Batman, considering what happened to Rachel in the last film; wouldn't the logical assumptino be that Catwoman is going to play a HUGE part in this film and Bane is just going to come in and serve as the danger bait?

 

[Gianakin_]

I certainly hope not. Just because some things worked in TDK doesn't mean they have to be done again. I want character development for both, especially Selina/CW. It's not like she's as extreme a character as the Joker anyway.

Don't forget there's no Rachel this time around, so the 4 major characters from TDK are now 3. Selina has to fill out the love interest part.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Well, here's a dirty little secret about me.

Spoiler

I wasn't impressed with the Ra's al Ghul twist in the first place.

Now I know what people will say. "But Boom, you read the script, so you already ruined it for yourself."

No, that's not it. It just wasn't a great twist, as far as I was concerned.

Crane: "I am more than aware that you are not intimidated by me, Mr. Falcone, but you know who I'm working for. And when he gets here-"
Falcone: "Wait. He's coming to Gotham?"

The second this line exchange happens, the twist is blown. "He" - obviously referring to Ra's al Ghul. And since we know that Watanabe's Ra's al Ghul was killed by two pieces of plywood, and that Ducard was left to live, all you have to do is put two and two together.

After all, Ducard was the one who brought Bruce Wayne in. Ducard was the one who taught Bruce the ways of the League of Shadows. Ducard trained Bruce how to fight and disappear. Ducard was actively involved in every facet of the League of Shadows. All Watanabe's Ra's did was sit in a chair. Not exactly the awe-inspiring leader you would have expected.

I did read the script, so it's impossible to prove otherwise, but I'm pretty confident that I would've picked up on the twist pretty early on even if I hadn't read it.

I didn't read the script but I figured he was Ra's as soon as he opened his mouth and revealed his face in the jail cell at the beginning of the movie. I just remember watching BTAS as a kid and as soon as I saw the strange goatee with the strange British voice in BB, I figured it was him. So when the "twist" happened, I wasn't surprised at all.

 

[cyclone]

Not too good to plan the future of your "world saving holier than thou" organization on a drug addicted psychopath.

I think Catwoman and the Gotham Police come in and do musical numbers during set changes in your scenario. Chriss Angel and Cirque du Soleil choreograph them in the same style as the "Believe" Las Vegas show.

Wow, your sarcasm tinted words really make me sorry for posting my ideas. Oh wait, no, no they don't, you silly little person.

A) Bane doesn't necessarily have to be on Venom or anything else while being trained by the League, and his addiction could be one OF MANY (before you attack that idea) reasons Ra's decides he's not the right person for the LOS leadership.

I am pretty confident we will see young Talia and quite possibly Tate will end up being Talia grown up.

I completely agree. Nolan, and others have stated this film brings the trilogy full circle. If Ra's doesn't end up being in it, and Marion isn't Talia, then I'll be massively surprised, which doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

The 'twist' of the viewer finding out Miranda is actually Talia, doesn't actually have to be a twist at all. In fact, the sheer resemblance of the young girl and Marion would tell the audience who she is. But it wouldn't tell Bruce, would it? Bruce/Batman would have no idea who she is as he never meets Talia when she is young.

These are all still assumptions and ideas. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Gianakin_]

I'm pretty sure Ra's is in the film.

 

[Citadel30]

Why would you think that?

Everything so far has shown the opposite of this



Why does it look this way to you again?

Joker was shown first

Bane was shown first.

Catwoman has always served to be a point of possible contention and admiration for Batman, considering what happened to Rachel in the last film; wouldn't the logical assumptino be that Catwoman is going to play a HUGE part in this film and Bane is just going to come in and serve as the danger bait?

I think that because of the small tidbits of information we are getting AT THIS POINT in production:

- a young bald child was seen on a set coming out of a hole (Bane childhood flashback???)
- a young Ras will be in this film- and dont forget that in BB Ras mentioned about his other "failed prodigy" - Bane???
- Nolan discussing how TDKR will come full circle back to BB - which was heavily involved with the LOS
- we havent really seen or heard ANYTHING about Hathaway or Catwoman up to this point ( i know i know... its still VERY early)

I mean, hey - its early, we have basically no idea where Nolan is going with this thing - but IMO it seems that Bane will be getting the backstory and Catwoman may be the new Rachael - a love interest, who may have some sticky fingers in her night time habits.

 

[The_Raganork]

I'm pretty sure Ra's is in the film.

Why aren't you 100% sure?

 

[Gianakin_]

Why aren't you 100% sure?

I always leave an error margin.

 

[DieSmiling]

IMO, common sense dictates that Catwoman will have more of an arc that Bane, just based on their characters. If Catwoman was just a thief who eluded Batman and didn't have much of an arc there honestly wouldn't be any reason to even include her in the movie.

The fact that she's a villain turned anti-hero and love interest is what makes her compelling, and I'm sure that's going to be how she's used.

 

[Gianakin_]

Exactly. Neither her nor Bane are as extreme as the Joker, thus they'll probably have a story arc.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Young Ra's is confirmed but I don't think old Ra's is gonna happen. As far as Nolan's Batman universe is concerned Ra's is dead. I think Tate will be Talia and she is basically going to be a mirror image of what Bruce went through when his parents died. She is going to side with her father that he was trying to better the world with good intentions and she sees Batman as a man that killed her father and is standing in the way of what her father wanted to accomplish. She won't be a love interest because it is fairly obvious that that role is being designated to Selina Kyle.

 

[The_Raganork]

I think that because of the small tidbits of information we are getting AT THIS POINT in production:

- a young bald child was seen on a set coming out of a hole (Bane childhood flashback???)

Unconfirmed

- a young Ras will be in this film- and dont forget that in BB Ras mentioned about his other "failed prodigy" - Bane???

I don't recall him mentioning a failed prodigy. But I haven't seen it in quite some time.

- Nolan discussing how TDKR will come full circle back to BB - which was heavily involved with the LOS

This could be a lot of things. It had a lot of Batman too and a lot of him figuring out what it meant to be Batman and making mistakes. Just because it's coming back to BB doesn't necessarily mean LoS. I think the LoS will be involved but; there's no proof to prove they'll be in it in any major form

- we havent really seen or heard ANYTHING about Hathaway or Catwoman up to this point ( i know i know... its still VERY early)

exactly
We hadn't heard a lot about Harvey at this point in TDK either and the movie was about him.

I mean, hey - its early, we have basically no idea where Nolan is going with this thing - but IMO it seems that Bane will be getting the backstory and Catwoman may be the new Rachael - a love interest, who may have some sticky fingers in her night time habits.

I've seen NOTHING about Bane getting a backstory. All I've seen is a picture of him. We got a similar picture of Joker on the same day 4 years prior and he got no backstory.

If we're following trends you should take the similarities between how Joker was treated and how Bane is being treated.

Furthermore; Have you considered the HUGE, MASSIVE impact Catwoman has been on Batman in almost EVERY literature in Batman?

She's never been a simple love story.

Have you read Hush? What she does at the end of Hush is the perfect example of their relationship.

She's not coming into a film to kiss him and make things better; she's going to challenge his way of thinking; challenge his trust in people.

This whole film will be about trust.

 

[Gianakin_]

- a young Ras will be in this film- and dont forget that in BB Ras mentioned about his other "failed prodigy" - Bane???

This was never spoken in BB.

 

[The_Raganork]

I always leave an error margin.

But we got a report on the flashback and a pic of Josh Pence...

I suppose you're smarter though for having that error margin...I think I'll adopt it

 

[The_Raganork]

This was never spoken in BB.

I didn't think so.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

There is no mention of a failed prodigy in BB. And especially not in those words. Why are people making things up to support their theories?

 

[Citadel30]

Exactly. Neither her nor Bane are as extreme as the Joker, thus they'll probably have a story arc.

If they both have story arch, this film better be 3 hours long. Cause there is going to be a ton going on.

i have no issues with Catwoman being the main story - i just cant picture Nolan (based off the way he usually uses female roles in his movies) using Catwoman as the main story arch. Has there ever been a huge female role in any of his movies??? Scarlett in the Prestige? Inception? Momento? not so much...

maybe it will be a groundbreaking female lead role for his movies, but i doubt it until we get more information from the production leaks.

i am dying to see her in costume tho - and i am sure if anyone can make Catwoman an intriguing character, it will be Nolan and Emma.

 

[Citadel30]

you are right - he talks of failed attempts to take down Gotham. i stand corrected. Thanks!

 

[Gianakin_]

If they both have story arch, this film better be 3 hours long. Cause there is going to be a ton going on.

No, because you don't have 4 major characters in TDKR, but 3. Plus, in most Nolan movies the "tons" of things going on stem from the characters themselves, so...

i have no issues with Catwoman being the main story - i just cant picture Nolan (based off the way he usually uses female roles in his movies) using Catwoman as the main story arch. Has there ever been a huge female role in any of his movies??? Scarlett in the Prestige? Inception? Momento? not so much...

maybe it will be a groundbreaking female lead role for his movies, but i doubt it until we get more information from the production leaks.

A director should strive to evolve. Sure, they keep the same themes and motives for the majority of their films, but they should break the mould sometimes. Just because we haven't seen major female roles in Nolan's films before doesn't mean it won't happen now. And I'd argue that Moss's character in Memento was pretty big.

Nolan could've used any female character from the Batman mythos to include in TDKR, but he chose CW, the 2nd major villain of the lore after Joker. Why, so as not to explore her? Doesn't sound like a wise choice to me, and Nolan has chosen wisely so far, imo.

 

[AdamStabelli]

I believe that Miranda Tate is Talia. This whole argument is stupid. Who else would Joey King be playing? Did we forget that Rises will have flashbacks that take place 30 years prior to the events of Batman Begins? I'm sure Joey will be playing a young Talia, and Miranda Tate will be the full grown Talia. If that's the case, I will stand up in my theatre seat, and say I was right. Ugh. Fanboys.

 

[cyclone]

you are right - he talks of failed attempts to take down Gotham. i stand corrected. Thanks!

That's more of a failed attempt at the event, rather than a failed prodigy though isn't it?

I must admit, I can't remember Ra's saying there were others before Bruce. Probably going to have to re-watch it now!

 

[Gianakin_]

Always leave room to be surprised. We don't know the story at this point. The girl could be anyone.

 

[The_Raganork]

This was never spoken in BB.

If they both have story arch, this film better be 3 hours long. Cause there is going to be a ton going on.

Only if you're looking at it from a certain way. There's no reason why they can't arc simultaneously in different ways in 2+hours.

i have no issues with Catwoman being the main story - i just cant picture Nolan (based off the way he usually uses female roles in his movies) using Catwoman as the main story arch. Has there ever been a huge female role in any of his movies??? Scarlett in the Prestige? Inception? Momento? not so much...

You're looking at "huge" in a different way. If you expect this woman to be "The Catwoman Rises" you're wrong. Look at the female lead in Momento a driving force; a catalyst for action the single greatest cohesive push in the story culminating in that scene in the diner. Her role was Huge, you just didn't look at it the correct way.
Furthermore; Catwoman has a real place in the Batman lore, it's been identified for years. Expect Nolan to take an amazingly complex character and keep them amazingly complex, he's done it with the other complex characters so far: Ra's, Joker, Two Face, Bruce, Bats...there's a patter here to follow...

maybe it will be a groundbreaking female lead role for his movies, but i doubt it until we get more information from the production leaks.

But you have no doubts about you're own theories? Naturally.

Your assertions are all CONTRARY to how Nolan does his films so far. I don't know why you'd swear by them more than his specific way of telling a story...

i am dying to see her in costume tho - and i am sure if anyone can make Catwoman an intriguing character, it will be Nolan and Emma.

I'm sure this is what they're banking on. Excitement over Catwoman and they're going to hold this card as long as they can to keep you interested

Why?

Because she is going to be a "huge" part of this film