The Dark Knight Rises The Dark Knight Rises Info Hunters Thread - - - Part 21

[Gianakin_]

That's more of a failed attempt at the event, rather than a failed prodigy though isn't it?

I must admit, I can't remember Ra's saying there were others before Bruce. Probably going to have to re-watch it now!

citadel30's post that you quoted was him standing corrected about the "failed prodigy" part. There is no such mention in BB.

 

[cyclone]

citadel30's post that you quoted was him standing corrected about the "failed prodigy" part. There is no such mention in BB.

Ah right, yep, sorry, got ya! Ta!

 

[The_Raganork]

Always leave room to be surprised. We don't know the story at this point. The girl could be anyone.

 

[brainsmasher]

That YOUNG GIRL side reads a lot like Talia al Ghul. It's like right before the mother's death. Ras' wife's death. Joey King might be playing Talia afterall.

 

[Gianakin_]

Could you point out what was being said on that side?

 

[Bat-Mite]

Does anyone else think that Catwoman may be the "Joker" of this film?? Not really having much development, kinda just coming and going throughout the film randomly - similar to the Joker. In TDK, Harvey was the story - Joker was just the rash that wouldnt go away. It looks like Bane is going to get the character development and Catwoman could just end up being some bad-ass burgler who eludes Batman most of the film and adds some exciting action sequences.

The Joker was portrayed that way because it suited his character... Catwoman, not so much. She's more comparable to Batman himself than a character like the Joker, but even then, she's not as ninja-like as Batman is, and relies more upon agility and street smarts to get out of sticky situations.

 

[Citadel30]

No, because you don't have 4 major characters in TDKR, but 3. Plus, in most Nolan movies the "tons" of things going on stem from the characters themselves, so...



A director should strive to evolve. Sure, they keep the same themes and motives for the majority of their films, but they should break the mould sometimes. Just because we haven't seen major female roles in Nolan's films before doesn't mean it won't happen now. And I'd argue that Moss's character in Memento was pretty big.

Nolan could've used any female character from the Batman mythos to include in TDKR, but he chose CW, the 2nd major villain of the lore after Joker. Why, so as not to explore her? Doesn't sound like a wise choice to me, and Nolan has chosen wisely so far, imo.

Sure - Nolan films are usually busy and transition quite rapidly from plotpoint to plotpoint , but to completely introduce two new deep (we are assuming he is going to do this) villains and also dive a little deeper into the LOS (young Ras) lore... phew!!!! thats a BUSY film. not that i have any doubts that Nolan cant pull it off.

so you are assuming that Nolan is striving to evolve? quite presumptious??? t:

i just stated that IMO his past female characters never really carried his films and that was what i used for my basis.... now if you want to ASSUME that Nolan is evolving as a director (whether or not he actually plans on increasing his female character depth), cool. I love Hathaway and Catwoman is one of my favorite characters, so i am hoping we get a truly kick-ass version of her.

 

[Gianakin_]

I'm not assuming he is striving to evolve, I'm suggesting he should.

We also don't know how heavily the LoS will be featured. For all we know it could be one scene where young Ra's finds Bane and that's it, the rest is exposition by Bane.

I'm just saying that just because his female roles haven't been major thus far, it's no indication that he will follow the same pattern with CW of all characters.

 

[The_Raganork]

New Deep characters can bring out Old deep themes.

The parallels between Catwoman and Current Batman are uncanny

The Parallels between Bane's rumored origins and Bruce's LoS history are uncanny.

Seems like it'll all fit to me and in a nice neat package

 

[The_Raganork]

I'm not assuming he is striving to evolve, I'm suggesting he should.

We also don't know how heavily the LoS will be featured. For all we know it could be one scene where young Ra's finds Bane and that's it, the rest is exposition by Bane.

I'm just saying that just because his female roles haven't been major thus far, it's no indication that he will follow the same pattern with CW of all characters.

I still don't think this is true.

 

[Gianakin_]

I still don't think this is true.

Yeah, me neither. Especially in Memento and Insomnia.

 

[Doc Phosphorus]

Hey guys, longtime lurker here.

Just wanted to throw my two cents in -

I wouldn't get to excited to see much of Ra's al Ghul. I think it's kind of telling that Nolan cast Josh Pence, who was little more than a body double for Armie Hammer in The Social Network, to play the young version of a character played by Oscar-nominee Liam Neeson. No offence to Mr. Pence, but I think it's likely that he may not even have dialogue, or simply be seen in the shadows. A good Neeson lookalike for a small scene.

If he is indeed the mentor of young Bane, I could see the scenes being played out without dialogue, or very abstractly. I certainly don't expect anything particularly meaty from the character, and definitely nothing that would take away screentime from other characters.

 

[Citadel30]

Only if you're looking at it from a certain way. There's no reason why they can't arc simultaneously in different ways in 2+hours.



You're looking at "huge" in a different way. If you expect this woman to be "The Catwoman Rises" you're wrong. Look at the female lead in Momento a driving force; a catalyst for action the single greatest cohesive push in the story culminating in that scene in the diner. Her role was Huge, you just didn't look at it the correct way.
Furthermore; Catwoman has a real place in the Batman lore, it's been identified for years. Expect Nolan to take an amazingly complex character and keep them amazingly complex, he's done it with the other complex characters so far: Ra's, Joker, Two Face, Bruce, Bats...there's a patter here to follow...

But you have no doubts about you're own theories? Naturally.

Your assertions are all CONTRARY to how Nolan does his films so far. I don't know why you'd swear by them more than his specific way of telling a story...



I'm sure this is what they're banking on. Excitement over Catwoman and they're going to hold this card as long as they can to keep you interested

Why?

Because she is going to be a "huge" part of this film

oh - i am not an expert in any way, shape, or form in film-making or movies for that matter... haha

My "theories" are nothing more than me being a fan of Nolan and Batman and trying to speculate on what "10 - rating" movie Nolan is going to give us this time! Most of you guys definitely know much more than me about this stuff than me and i just suggested if anyone thought that Catwoman may be the "joker" of this film. haha

phew!!! i'll hold my opinions about the film in from now on and stick to posting useless gifs anytime a newbie posts something from way out in left field. t:

 

[The_Raganork]

Yeah, me neither. Especially in Memento and Insomnia.

and Inception! The two female roles are the driving force of change and revelation in the film.

Hey guys, longtime lurker here.

Just wanted to throw my two cents in -

I wouldn't get to excited to see much of Ra's al Ghul. I think it's kind of telling that Nolan cast Josh Pence, who was little more than a body double for Armie Hammer in The Social Network, to play the young version of a character played by Oscar-nominee Liam Neeson. No offence to Mr. Pence, but I think it's likely that he may not even have dialogue, or simply be seen in the shadows. A good Neeson lookalike for a small scene.

If he is indeed the mentor of young Bane, I could see the scenes being played out without dialogue, or very abstractly. I certainly don't expect anything particularly meaty from the character, and definitely nothing that would take away screentime from other characters.

Also, anyone ever thought, what we know is usually the little tidbits. I don't think they're giving away huge parts of the film, a year out.

The fact that we know about Pence as Ra's makes me thing this is a small cameo by the character

 

[Gianakin_]

Hey, it's ok, we're not attacking you or anything (at least I think I'm not coming off that way, if I am I apologise). This is a forum, no need to hold your opinions just because someone may argue with you.

 

[Citadel30]

New Deep characters can bring out Old deep themes.

The parallels between Catwoman and Current Batman are uncanny

The Parallels between Bane's rumored origins and Bruce's LoS history are uncanny.

Seems like it'll all fit to me and in a nice neat package

 

[Gianakin_]

and Inception! The two female roles are the driving force of change and revelation in the film.

Hm, debatable, imo. They are important, especially Mal, but they don't really have a character arc, so...

 

[Citadel30]

Hey, it's ok, we're not attacking you or anything (at least I think I'm not coming off that way, if I am I apologise). This is a forum, no need to hold your opinions just because someone may argue with you.

haha - its all good, i cant compete with you heavy hitters!

... but its still fun!

 

[The_Raganork]

oh - i am not an expert in any way, shape, or form in film-making or movies for that matter... haha

My "theories" are nothing more than me being a fan of Nolan and Batman and trying to speculate on what "10 - rating" movie Nolan is going to give us this time! Most of you guys definitely know much more than me about this stuff than me and i just suggested if anyone thought that Catwoman may be the "joker" of this film. haha

phew!!! i'll hold my opinions about the film in from now on and stick to posting useless gifs anytime a newbie posts something from way out in left field. t:

No; I didn't mean to put you off. You have ideas, keep posting them. They leave room for debate.

This time I happen not to agree, next time I may

 

[Gianakin_]

haha - its all good, i cant compete with you heavy hitters!

... but its still fun!

We're just training you in case you ever have to argue with Saint or the Guard!

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well, here's a dirty little secret about me.

Spoiler

I wasn't impressed with the Ra's al Ghul twist in the first place.

Now I know what people will say. "But Boom, you read the script, so you already ruined it for yourself."

No, that's not it. It just wasn't a great twist, as far as I was concerned.

Crane: "I am more than aware that you are not intimidated by me, Mr. Falcone, but you know who I'm working for. And when he gets here-"
Falcone: "Wait. He's coming to Gotham?"

The second this line exchange happens, the twist is blown. "He" - obviously referring to Ra's al Ghul. And since we know that Watanabe's Ra's al Ghul was killed by two pieces of plywood, and that Ducard was left to live, all you have to do is put two and two together.

After all, Ducard was the one who brought Bruce Wayne in. Ducard was the one who taught Bruce the ways of the League of Shadows. Ducard trained Bruce how to fight and disappear. Ducard was actively involved in every facet of the League of Shadows. All Watanabe's Ra's did was sit in a chair. Not exactly the awe-inspiring leader you would have expected.

I did read the script, so it's impossible to prove otherwise, but I'm pretty confident that I would've picked up on the twist pretty early on even if I hadn't read it.

I didnt know much about Ras at that point (i was a bat-noob) so the twist worked for me. Nowadays i wouldnt have bought his death either, and considering that Liam freaking Neeson was sporting the Ras goatee, i would have known it was him from the start. It must have been cool for the general audience though.

 

[Citadel30]

No; I didn't mean to put you off. You have ideas, keep posting them. They leave room for debate.

This time I happen not to agree, next time I may

 

[Citadel30]

We're just training you in case you ever have to argue with Saint or the Guard!

haha - yea, no joke!!

 

[The_Raganork]

We're just training you in case you ever have to argue with Saint or the Guard!

 

[Boom]

Where has The Guard been?