DC Films The DC Studios News and Discussion Thread

[Lantern Venom]

I do not know. I just rewatched Justice League last night. I think it gets an undeserved bad rap.

I'm in full agreement. The issues that it has are minor compared to all of the areas in which in succeeded.

 

[Jekecy]

I want Cavill back. As for dealing with the "baggage", I had this idea based on some rumors that certain post-JL films have kinda, by accident or on purpose, did: why not retcon BvS (SS) and JL? Giving a semi blank slate, and you only have to jump off from MOS. Thus, new Lex, even new Doomsday, and new character arc post-MOS.

Why go through all this trouble only to keep the same star who himself has had trouble captivating audiences in the titular role? Even on the off-chance he gets a director to back him, Henry's gonna be knocking on 40's door by the time things get underway.

I get it's hard to imagine someone more physically representative of the character, but unknown's are always out there to fill his place. Something tells me young, handsome, chiseled white men, are a dime a dozen in Hollywood's acting pool.

 

[Willi Berg]

But they offered several movie projects to James Gunn, he himself admitted that Superman was one of them, that tells me that WB are still open to making another Superman movie.

Also, in case of McQuarrie's case, They listened to his Superman pitch, if they were against making another Superman movie they could have just said no thank you to him.

As I said, they were keeping their options open, especially as there was uncertainty (with Cavill's negotiatons, with where the DCEU was heading after JL..) but more and more time has passed. Superman can still be a possibility but Cavill seems more unlikely.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I'm in full agreement. The issues that it has are minor compared to all of the areas in which in succeeded.

...minor?

• Superman's mouth looks like something out of a horror movie
• Ben Affleck clearly DGAF about anything
• Obvious greenscreen work that makes half the movie look like a cartoon
• Terrible CGI villain
• Cavill, Adams and Lane are completely wasted in a few forgettable scenes (yet this is supposedly a conclusion to a "trilogy" that began with them)
  
• Gadot, Miller, Momoa and Fisher fare better (depending on who you talk to) but three of these characters are people we've barely seen before and there isn't enough time in one movie to forge a real connection with them
• Cyborg's body looks like a cross between a Michael Bay Transformer and some origami shapes from the Super NES version of Starfox
• Most of the score just sounded like Danny Elfman recycling DC movies' greatest hits.

Honestly, where did the movie succeed? It had a few nice character moments but that's about all I can give it.

 

[Binker]

Why go through all this trouble only to keep the same star who himself has had trouble captivating audiences in the titular role? Even on the off-chance he gets a director to back him, Henry's gonna be knocking on 40's door by the time things get underway.

Because that statement you just said is wrong: despite how people feel about the movies, and granted how unnecessary unappreciated MOS is, alot of people still like Henry Cavill and his Superman, and continue to do so. Plus, all this happening to him is because of WB screwing him over. Alot of us when we saw BvS: UE were so confused to see Cavill doing a good job and yet his scenes were cut, and even then, you would know and it is generally agreed that this is the case with the Snyder Cut of JL.

Cavill is a great Superman, but it goes beyond playing the character. He IS the character in real life. The last time we ever got this was Reeve, and it doesn't go against Cain or even Welling, but you can tell when someone sees it as only a role and when someone sees it for someone more, even personal. Whose to say that the next guy who be that, but then, why say Cavill should be recast just because.

And even then, even with a new actor, will they connect with MOS or confuse everyone with a more reboot/sequel despite demands and pleas of going the opposite, same with Cavill?

Regardless of what you say, a recast and reboot direction causes more confusion and problems, and distrust with the studio and those involved along with it.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I was in a bar earlier and BvS was playing on one of the TVs on mute. Why they didn’t change the channel to something more entertaining like bird watching or SMPTE color bars, I have no idea. But anyway, I sat there for a few minutes and watched Cavill’s facial expressions without any audible dialogue (ironic I suppose because he barely has any lines anyway). I have to say, he... wasn’t good in that movie. Maybe it was just bad direction, but he looks like he doesn’t know what he’s doing. I thought he was great in MoS but after that...

I still wish McQuarrie’s movie would have happened but since it won’t, it’s time to move on.

 

[-Arya-]

I can’t wait to move on. Just follow Reeves’ Batman and reboot it all.

 

[flickchick85]

I was in a bar earlier and BvS was playing on one of the TVs on mute. Why they didn’t change the channel to something more entertaining like bird watching or SMPTE color bars, I have no idea. But anyway, I sat there for a few minutes and watched Cavill’s facial expressions without any audible dialogue (ironic I suppose because he barely has any lines anyway). I have to say, he... wasn’t good in that movie. Maybe it was just bad direction, but he looks like he doesn’t know what he’s doing. I thought he was great in MoS but after that...

It wasn't just BvS. His delivery of "don't play games with me, General!" in MoS made my friend laugh rather embarrassingly loud in the theater during our first watch, and she usually has a high tolerance for cheese. It was just...really bad delivery. And of course, in BvS, that "No one stays good in this world" line still haunts my dreams for multiple reasons to this day. The facial expressions as you mentioned seemed extra-forced in that one, too. But yes, the two films shared a director so it could've been the direction at fault. Maybe Zack kept shouting, "give me a stronger scowl!" But based on Henry's other roles...eeeh, I wouldn't be too quick to blame Zack on this one. It's funny to me how, all the other Superman actors have been pretty much unknowns, and Henry was our first with an actual legit acting resume with notable roles, yet he was arguably the worst, acting-wise. It hurts to say this as someone who championed him for the role pretty hard, but it is what it is, imo.

 

[Predator jp]

i didn't like him in Fallout. he was pretty bland.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It wasn't just BvS. His delivery of "don't play games with me, General!" in MoS made my friend laugh rather embarrassingly loud in the theater during our first watch, and she usually has a high tolerance for cheese. It was just...really bad delivery. And of course, in BvS, that "No one stays good in this world" line still haunts my dreams for multiple reasons to this day. The facial expressions as you mentioned seemed extra-forced in that one, too. But yes, the two films shared a director so it could've been the direction at fault. Maybe Zack kept shouting, "give me a stronger scowl!" But based on Henry's other roles...eeeh, I wouldn't be too quick to blame Zack on this one. It's funny to me how, all the other Superman actors have been pretty much unknowns, and Henry was our first with an actual legit acting resume with notable roles, yet he was arguably the worst, acting-wise. It hurts to say this as someone who championed him for the role pretty hard, but it is what it is, imo.

thank god I'm not the only one that thinks Cavill is a straight up BAD actor. You guys have a high tolerance for acting. I have a certain expectation... especially for a beloved character like Superman

 

[flickchick85]

Maybe that is subconsciously a big reason why I'm on the "Pick an Unknown for Supes" train these days, because the more unknown they were, the better it seemed they were in the part. Like it was the role they were actually made for. Except Welling, who was awful, imo, but I won't count him because he wasn't hired to play Superman in the first place, lol.

 

[STARMAN]

Charisma can sometimes hide acting limitations. Some of it I put on Cavill. Some of it I put on the material. Look at all the proven actors in these films from Adams, Costner, Lane, Crowe, Shannon, and Eisenberg to name a few and none of them have been acclaimed for their performances.

 

[Lantern Venom]

...minor?

• Superman's mouth looks like something out of a horror movie
• Ben Affleck clearly DGAF about anything
• Obvious greenscreen work that makes half the movie look like a cartoon
• Terrible CGI villain
• Cavill, Adams and Lane are completely wasted in a few forgettable scenes (yet this is supposedly a conclusion to a "trilogy" that began with them)
  
• Gadot, Miller, Momoa and Fisher fare better (depending on who you talk to) but three of these characters are people we've barely seen before and there isn't enough time in one movie to forge a real connection with them
• Cyborg's body looks like a cross between a Michael Bay Transformer and some origami shapes from the Super NES version of Starfox
• Most of the score just sounded like Danny Elfman recycling DC movies' greatest hits.

Honestly, where did the movie succeed? It had a few nice character moments but that's about all I can give it.

*It expanded the DC backdrop by showing us more of the Amazons' purpose, Atlantis, Mother Boxes, and the history with Apokolips.

*We got to see several welcomed introductions like Cyborg (he looked great and Fisher was outstanding), Mera, Aquaman, and Jim Gordon.

*Gal Gadot finally nailed Wonder Woman's personality and her powers were much more defined that in the two previous outings.

*Cavill did his best acting job in the post-revival scene. This was also the best display of Superman's power level that has ever been done in live-action. I've probably watched this scene 100 times since the movie's release.

*Steppenwolf was a little undercooked in terms of motivation, but both he and the Parademons looked creepy and their movements were animated well.

*For all of the criticism of the DCEU being "too dark" (which is laughable), we saw the emotional reunions of Clark-Lois and Clark-Martha. We also got a fitting epilogue to BvS when Bruce made amends by ensuring that the Kent family farm stayed with Martha.

All of these far outweigh the criticisms that I have for JL.

 

[MbJ]

I will give Cavill the benefit of the doubt (as I've always done) and chalk a lot of that up to the direction and writing he was working with. It's clear the creative team wanted a more aloof Superman, and for better or for worse that's how he played the role. But I agree, yes, it does get really silly at times, like during the bombing scene where he looks mildly annoyed that a bunch of innocent people just exploded on his outfit.

 

[JimThompson]

But I agree, yes, it does get really silly at times, like during the bombing scene where he looks mildly annoyed that a bunch of innocent people just exploded on his outfit.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It’s too bad Routh worked with such a creepy director and a creepy Lex...

I genuinely think Routh is a much better actor than Cavill. It’s too bad he didn’t get as many chances as Cavill did

 

[JimThompson]

I also think Routh did a good job in the role. It is a shame he did not get more opportunities with it.

 

[Deck Rickard]

It wasn't just BvS. His delivery of "don't play games with me, General!" in MoS made my friend laugh rather embarrassingly loud in the theater during our first watch, and she usually has a high tolerance for cheese. It was just...really bad delivery. And of course, in BvS, that "No one stays good in this world" line still haunts my dreams for multiple reasons to this day. The facial expressions as you mentioned seemed extra-forced in that one, too. But yes, the two films shared a director so it could've been the direction at fault. Maybe Zack kept shouting, "give me a stronger scowl!" But based on Henry's other roles...eeeh, I wouldn't be too quick to blame Zack on this one. It's funny to me how, all the other Superman actors have been pretty much unknowns, and Henry was our first with an actual legit acting resume with notable roles, yet he was arguably the worst, acting-wise. It hurts to say this as someone who championed him for the role pretty hard, but it is what it is, imo.

For me, Routh was the bottom of the barrel in terms of acting. Maybe it was Singer, I don't know (and it might have been; I listened to an interview with Hal Sparks last year where he talked about how Singer was constantly groping and harassing Routh on set... Sparks wasn't in the movie of course but he apparently had some inside knowledge of it), but he looked like a deer in headlights for most of the movie to me. He was also really bad on Chuck. However, I do think he could play a good Superman now; his Dudley Do Right-type character on Arrow showed that he's learned to be charismatic and so maybe with more acting experience, he might have really been able to make Superman his own instead of just playing a cardboard cutout of Chris Reeve.

That said... I liked Cavill in MoS but I can't defend his performance in BvS. His expression during that "no one stays good in this world" scene you referenced was one of the ones I was watching yesterday and it's even worse with no audible dialogue. He looked like he just smelled a fart, lol. And in other scenes, he's just robotic. It's a shame because I do think he has talent; I liked him a lot on The Tudors, I thought he was good in Mission Impossible and he was even watchable in that garbage movie Blood Creek. But yeah, I think the Superman ship has sailed for him now. Hopefully he'll bounce back and deliver good performances in The Witcher and in that movie where he's playing Sherlock Holmes.

 

[FunkMiller]

Cavill is a great Superman, but it goes beyond playing the character. He IS the character in real life. The last time we ever got this was Reeve, and it doesn't go against Cain or even Welling, but you can tell when someone sees it as only a role and when someone sees it for someone more, even personal. Whose to say that the next guy who be that, but then, why say Cavill should be recast just because.

And even then, even with a new actor, will they connect with MOS or confuse everyone with a more reboot/sequel despite demands and pleas of going the opposite, same with Cavill?

Regardless of what you say, a recast and reboot direction causes more confusion and problems, and distrust with the studio and those involved along with it.

I know, right? Recasting and rebooting a major DC comic book character with a brand new director is something they would never do. Absolutely not.

I mean, it's not as if another DC comics character is being recast and rebooted, is it?

No. It'd never work for Superman. Best they just keep the guy from the movies nobody likes, exactly the same way they have done with that other guy.

Good lord.

 

[metaphysician]

Routh's work on Legends of Tomorrow has convinced me that he totally could have done a really good Superman. He just needed better material and direction. Pity.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

If Cavill’s Superman was adored by audiences but just happened to be in a series of bad movies? That would be one thing and It would be worth keeping him around and worth the effort to fix the problems.
That isn’t where we are though.
I really liked Cavill but I can admit that he’s not the best actor and that audiences just didn’t connect with his version of the character.
We saw the death of Superman and it wasn’t a big deal. I think that says a lot.

There’s just too many things to fix.
Clark Kent is dead for ****s sake

REBOOT

 

[-Arya-]

It wasn't just BvS. His delivery of "don't play games with me, General!" in MoS made my friend laugh rather embarrassingly loud in the theater during our first watch, and she usually has a high tolerance for cheese. It was just...really bad delivery. And of course, in BvS, that "No one stays good in this world" line still haunts my dreams for multiple reasons to this day. The facial expressions as you mentioned seemed extra-forced in that one, too. But yes, the two films shared a director so it could've been the direction at fault. Maybe Zack kept shouting, "give me a stronger scowl!" But based on Henry's other roles...eeeh, I wouldn't be too quick to blame Zack on this one. It's funny to me how, all the other Superman actors have been pretty much unknowns, and Henry was our first with an actual legit acting resume with notable roles, yet he was arguably the worst, acting-wise. It hurts to say this as someone who championed him for the role pretty hard, but it is what it is, imo.

I try so damn hard to forget that line, but it just keeps creeping back. What a disastrous characterization.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I try so damn hard to forget that line, but it just keeps creeping back. What a disastrous characterization.

That line really is pretty bad

“You’re a monster, Zod. And I’m gonna stop you”
Is another bad one.

 

[Orb]

I actually love all the cheesy lines Cavill Superman would say including the general line and the monster one. Superman is probably the only hero I can attribute those kind of lines with.

I LOVED the "...fan of justice" line from Justice League and Cavill did it perfectly

 

[TheGuy]

“You’re a monster, Zod. And I’m gonna stop you”
Is another bad one.