DC Films The DC Studios News and Discussion Thread

[Aurakles]

A point in Tony's favor is that, unlike all the live action versions of Lex, he figured out a way to kill a nigh indestructible alien space god.

Well, in BVS Luthor makes Doomsday.

 

[TheGuy]

Hopefully this happens on 2022 or 2023.

 

[Aurakles]

Barry Allen is always late

 

[I Am The Knight]

A point in Tony's favor is that, unlike all the live action versions of Lex, he figured out a way to kill a nigh indestructible alien space god.

Do you mean by snapping his fingers?

 

[Zarex]

Do you mean by snapping his fingers?

That, along with solving time travel and some delightful sleight of hand involving the Infinity stones.

 

[Nemeres]

Interesting. You didn't even mention Doomsday initially. Seems like moving goal posts

Agreed, character motivation and plot necessity often go hand in hand. Some stories are simply less successful at masking intention. The BVS crowd often seems so entrenched in trying to squeeze it for meaning that I wonder if they ever observe it long enough to notice how transparent and unaware it is in its plot construction. I brink up Doomsday bc it’s illustrative of Lex’s self-destructive IDGAF mindset. You elevate it into “Lex as a man who can create life like a god and kill gods”... but that rings hollow and absurdly synthetic to me. Bc it still comes down to the plot trying to get away with Lex knowingly being Doomsday’s creator, when the only possible outcome is it landing him in jail. Idea-wise, it’s destructive to the point where it even makes Lois’s quest for incriminating info more superfluous. Whether she succeeded not, the trail of bread crumbs was there, and the man would've brought about his own prison sentence.

If we’re talking Marvel movies, it’s even less logical than Zemo’s plan in CW. Zemo: a man w nothing to lose. Lex: a man with everything. As a legacy billionaire with a self-made name and something to stand for, it would be more *distinctive* (key word) to make him less aimlessly nihilistic than TDK’s Joker. Less self-destructive than Zemo. Lex as an ideological counterpoint to Supes ain’t present in any way I consider meaningful when his entire agenda is geared only toward tainting/killing the hero and all that made him powerful/influent would've henceforth be rendered meaningless. This Lex much sooner evokes a resentful mass shooter who goes in knowing he won’t make it out alive. As is often the case with BVS, it comes down to “It’s not supposed be logical. Bc [insert character] is ever so deranged.” I don’t like it and think it could be better. In explaining why, all “goalposts” are mine to set.

 

[I Am The Knight]

That, along with solving time travel and some delightful sleight of hand involving the Infinity stones.

Well, in BvS he did manage to sneak a jar of piss into Congress

 

[Aurakles]

When looking at Luthors motivations for making Doomsday, I think it's important to consider he may have already made contact with Darkseid / Steppenwolf at this point.
If he knows there is a massive alien invasion coming which is likely to wipe out civilisation, it would change his priorities. It'd be akin to getting a terminal diagnosis, he suddenly has nothing to lose as it'll all be turned to ash soon enough.

 

[FunkMiller]

When looking at Luthors motivations for making Doomsday, I think it's important to consider he may have already made contact with Darkseid / Steppenwolf at this point.
If he knows there is a massive alien invasion coming which is likely to wipe out civilisation, it would change his priorities. It'd be akin to getting a terminal diagnosis, he suddenly has nothing to lose as it'll all be turned to ash soon enough.

None of that is in the movie. That’s one of the movie’s biggest problems.

 

[Flint Marko]

None of that is in the movie.

This could honestly be pasted under every other post defending the movie.

 

[Micromind]

 

[misslane38]

None of that is in the movie. That’s one of the movie’s biggest problems.

Lex decides to use Zod to create Doomsday after asking the ship to share all of its knowledge about the known universe. Later, Lex describes Doomsday as "blood of my blood" that was "born to destroy" Superman. What else could that mean other than whatever knowledge Lex gained from the ship prompted the creation of Doomsday with the belief that it would be subject to his will. It just seems like a classic Frankenstein (coincidentally also known as "The Modern Prometheus") plot.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Thanks. I had something stuck in my throat and this image helped me regurgitate it.

 

[Flint Marko]

Lex decides to use Zod to create Doomsday after asking the ship to share all of its knowledge about the known universe. Later, Lex describes Doomsday as "blood of my blood" that was "born to destroy" Superman. What else could that mean other than whatever knowledge Lex gained from the ship prompted the creation of Doomsday with the belief that it would be subject to his will. It just seems like a classic Frankenstein (coincidentally also known as "The Modern Prometheus") plot.

Did you even read the post he was responding to?

 

[Nemeres]

When looking at Luthors motivations for making Doomsday, I think it's important to consider he may have already made contact with Darkseid / Steppenwolf at this point.
If he knows there is a massive alien invasion coming which is likely to wipe out civilisation, it would change his priorities. It'd be akin to getting a terminal diagnosis, he suddenly has nothing to lose as it'll all be turned to ash soon enough.

I think that would simply qualify as head cannon, and would disagree that it's important as such. If it's not text, it's not the movie.

 

[Avs21]

I think that would simply qualify as head cannon, and would disagree that it's important as such. If it's not text, it's not the movie.

Lex tells Batman "He is coming".
So calling it head cannon is wrong.

 

[Nemeres]

It is headcanon to frame it as a key motivation for Lex to create a monster that can easily be traced back to him. It's neither backed up nor given payoff in the film.

 

[Avs21]

Lex plan was to have Superman kill Batman. If he had done that Lex would be a hero for creating Doomsday to kill Superman.

 

[Aurakles]

None of that is in the movie. That’s one of the movie’s biggest problems.

It is in the movie, the scene with Luthor in prison makes it pretty clear. It's a bit like the end of an Agatha Christie story where the villain reveals why they did it.

 

[Nemeres]

Lex plan was to have Superman kill Batman. If he had done that Lex would be a hero for creating Doomsday to kill Superman.

Why would people have cared so much ab Batman dying that they'd actively hope for an incontrollable monster to kill Superman?

 

[I Am The Knight]

It is in the movie, the scene with Luthor in prison makes it pretty clear. It's a bit like the end of an Agatha Christie story where the villain reveals why they did it.

That's after he did the mind meld or whatever with Steppy at the end, no? He went crazy after that. There was not a word about an invasion prior to the ending of the movie.

 

[misslane38]

Did you even read the post he was responding to?

Did you? It was argued that there wasn't enough information in the film to claim Lex may have created Doomsday after learning dire information about the universe. My post presents information in the film as a counterpoint: Lex did create Doomsday after asking the ship to share all of its knowledge with him. He asks the ship to "teach me" and in a subsequent scene Lex creates Doomsday. In a later scene, we see that Lex is communing with Steppenwolf via the ship. So there's enough information in the film to contextualize Lex's possible motives. It's not as though there is literally nothing in the film to back up claims that Doomsday's creation may have been at least partially attributable to Apokoliptian influence. Regardless, even if there is context to support such a theory, it's not necessary to explain why Lex would create Doomsday. He does it to destroy Superman and ultimately fails because of his reckless hubris.

 

[Aurakles]

That's after he did the mind meld or whatever with Steppy at the end, no? He went crazy after that. There was not a word about an invasion prior to the ending of the movie.

Depends on whether you're looking at the theatrical cut or the extended.
In the theatrical there is no communion scene with Steppenwolf, so the "teach me" scene would be the most logical point for him to learn about Apokolips.
In the Ultimate cut it's less clear, still quite possible he learned about Apokolips before making Doomsday, but it could have been after.

 

[mclay18]

Hopefully this happens on 2022 or 2023.

Muschietti's reply seems to match up with THR's article, he's just going to relax and look at the drafts Hodson does for the film.

He'll answer a bit more about The Flash in December when promoting It: Chapter 2's Blu/DVD/digital release.

But if they are going to start prep by January (hiring crew members, location scouting, et al), WB wants this film for a 2021/2022 release.

 

[metaphysician]

I think that would simply qualify as head cannon, and would disagree that it's important as such. If it's not text, it's not the movie.

I wouldn't go that far. Subtext and theme is real and important.

Its just, "Luthor was influenced by Darkseid/New Gods stuff" isn't subtext or theme *either*. Even including the cut content, Luthor explicitly didn't have any contact with New Gods stuff until the very end, after every character-informing action was already taken. He otherwise has. . . well, rather incoherent subtexts and themes, but while they include a bunch of clashing components, "I am a dupe of elder horrors" isn't one of them.