The Defenders The Defenders Discussion Thread (NO SPOILER TAGS NECESSARY!)

[KevTravels]

I agreed it was the Third Act. I honestly still don't get what the plan of the Hand was. Weaver kinda felt wasted.

 

[TheVileOne]

I kind of wish someone screamed at the Hand or someone saying, all this all our misery was so you could just get some bones?!

 

[Kane52630]

First 4 episodes was really solid, but the last 4 was a bit workmanlike for my liking so it rounds to a 8/10.

I feel like they ran out of budget after the 6th episode.

 

[writer0327]

First 4 episodes was really solid, but the last 4 was a bit workmanlike for my liking so it rounds to a 8/10.

I feel like they ran out of budget after the 6th episode.

Felt the same, gave it the same score. It had a strong beginning and a 'meh' ending, with the exception of the fight scenes.

Once the Hand's ultimate plan was revealed, it kinda fizzled after that. I audibly said "Wow, that's it?" The slow build up has to have a stronger payoff than that.

 

[McSir]

So, the good:
-I enjoyed Danny more here, now that he has the others to bounce off of and basically be the comedic relief. He should have been more lighthearted to begin with, you don't need four out of four characters who are brooding loners.
-Loved Matt and Jessica together.
-I liked that the arcs for all the characters were carried through here. In the Avengers movies it always feel like the individual character arcs stopped so they could all fight aliens or robots, what have you.
-Glad we got so much of the supporting cast like Stick, Misty, and Colleen. i liked it when the different supporting casts intermingled as well; the scene between Karen and Trish was nice.
-They didn't kill Claire, which would have been a hack decision anyway.
-I liked that Luke and Jessica resolved their past encounter maturely. I was scared they might have a running gag where the two were awkward with one another.
-The teams reaction to Matt's self-sacrifice was touching, felt very adult.

The Meh:
-This felt very short and a little rushed and some, I thought, necessary character moments were left out. You're really going to have Matt and Claire not even address each other?
-Pretty blah action sequences. The hallway fight was good, so was the one with Danny fighting the others, but the final battle? I couldn't tell what was happening.
-I don't think there's going to be a Heroes for Hire in this universe. Didn't seem like Luke and Danny much cared for each other.

I thought the "plot" of the series was a hot mess. I have no idea how the Hand operate or what exactly they are? Everything about them keeps changing. in Daredevil they were straight up ninjas, in Iron Fist they were like cultists, here they seem to be more militaristic, with guns and stuff. And for having "depleted resources" they sure did manage to summon several tidal waves of goons.

The "fingers" I thought were an ok idea, but again, it changes what we were previously told about the Hand. I want to sit Madam Gao down and have her clearly explain her grand plan to me, because after four seasons with her I still don't have a clue what she's about, and it feels like I should know by now. She carousels around with her motivation more than Little Finger. And Bakuto seems more like a college recruiter than an ancient leader of the Hand.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm just worried that it's going to be bad as Iron Fist or as medicore as Luke Cage (second half). But if people who have already seen it thinks it's better than that, then I might take the time to watch it.

It's definitely better than those two. By a country mile, imo. The character dynamics and fight scenes alone are worth a look, I'd say. But yeah, there are some glaring flaws, too. I think everyone was just hoping this would be the best of the bunch, being the culmination of everything they've been building toward, and so that's where the sense of disappointment comes from. Yet it's still the 2nd or 3rd best offering from Marvel/Netflix, depending on how you felt about DD and JJ, and certainly isn't "bad." Not by a long shot.

Also, I forgot to mention in my initial review, that I enjoyed Luke Cage here a lot more than in his own show, too. This group made him far more enjoyable.

 

[Kane52630]

Sadly I think the Hand in Daredevil Season 2 felt more of a threat than what we got here.

 

[Iceman]

It's definitely better than those two. By a country mile, imo. The character dynamics and fight scenes alone are worth a look, I'd say. But yeah, there are some glaring flaws, too. I think everyone was just hoping this would be the best of the bunch, being the culmination of everything they've been building toward, and so that's where the sense of disappointment comes from. Yet it's still the 2nd or 3rd best offering from Marvel/Netflix, depending on how you felt about DD and JJ, and certainly isn't "bad." Not by a long shot.

Also, I forgot to mention in my initial review, that I enjoyed Luke Cage here a lot more than in his own show, too. This group made him far more enjoyable.

Also we can get a big improvement in a 2nd Defenders season by when the characters will have a lot more history with each other. Episode 3 already gave me a lot of what I was looking for from the Defenders teaming up.

 

[Web-Head]

I didn't like how they played up the "Matt/Daredevil is dead thing at the end since we all pretty much knew he wasn't. I know the "general audience" may have felt for it, but c'mon.

Overall, I liked the show and may have been my favorite behind both seasons of DD but Weaver was really wasted and her character was boring and did nothing for me.

Only thing that I felt was truly missing was making the villains more interesting and more of a threat.

 

[Dasher10]

Is Gao dead?

While it's obvious that Elektra survived since somebody had to carry Matt to safety and Gao was the only other person down there, I still think that Gao survived since I believe that she's Crane Mother and will return for Iron Fist Season 2.

 

[flickchick85]

Oh Gao totally lived. She disappeared into the shadows, as I recall. That's code for "She's Escaping."

 

[2kt09]

I have no idea how the Hand operate or what exactly they are? Everything about them keeps changing. in Daredevil they were straight up ninjas, in Iron Fist they were like cultists, here they seem to be more militaristic, with guns and stuff. And for having "depleted resources" they sure did manage to summon several tidal waves of goons.

The "fingers" I thought were an ok idea, but again, it changes what we were previously told about the Hand. I want to sit Madam Gao down and have her clearly explain her grand plan to me, because after four seasons with her I still don't have a clue what she's about, and it feels like I should know by now. She carousels around with her motivation more than Little Finger. And Bakuto seems more like a college recruiter than an ancient leader of the Hand.

The "fingers" seemed like the right method in grouping the variety of Hand depictions, but they barely got to explore the newer ones (the "militaristic" ones). Something, LC and DD knew how to do was develop multiple villains enough to get a good grasp on them (within 8 ep or less). I might even go as far as saying Weaver's big villain role wasn't worth the wait.

 

[McSir]

The "fingers" seemed like the right method in grouping the variety of Hand depictions, but they barely got to explore the newer ones (the "militaristic" ones). Something, LC and DD knew how to do was develop multiple villains enough to get a good grasp on them (within 8 ep or less). I might even go as far as saying Weaver's big villain role wasn't worth the wait.

Alexandra was the most disappointing villain role since Darth Maul. Weaver's performance was fine but I can't understand what attracted her to the part, the character is completely passive, gives the same two speeches every episode, meets with the heroes all of once, and then is unceremoniously killed and thrown on the floor.

They needed a villain who could be intimidating and actually a threat to the Defenders, not one who stands there and postures for six episodes. She's literally so uninvested in her own plot that during the time that her master plan is being carried out she goes out to eat TWICE. Wasn't there a time when Marvel Netflix was highly regarded for their villains?

 

[samsnee]

Seeing all Defenders interact was definitely the high point.

But if I never see another ninja fight or reference to the Hand ever again, I won't shed a tear.

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, I do think they should be done with The Hand now in these shows.

 

[kguillou]

So, the good:
-I enjoyed Danny more here, now that he has the others to bounce off of and basically be the comedic relief. He should have been more lighthearted to begin with, you don't need four out of four characters who are brooding loners.
-Loved Matt and Jessica together.
-I liked that the arcs for all the characters were carried through here. In the Avengers movies it always feel like the individual character arcs stopped so they could all fight aliens or robots, what have you.
-Glad we got so much of the supporting cast like Stick, Misty, and Colleen. i liked it when the different supporting casts intermingled as well; the scene between Karen and Trish was nice.
-They didn't kill Claire, which would have been a hack decision anyway.
-I liked that Luke and Jessica resolved their past encounter maturely. I was scared they might have a running gag where the two were awkward with one another.
-The teams reaction to Matt's self-sacrifice was touching, felt very adult.

The Meh:
-This felt very short and a little rushed and some, I thought, necessary character moments were left out. You're really going to have Matt and Claire not even address each other?
-Pretty blah action sequences. The hallway fight was good, so was the one with Danny fighting the others, but the final battle? I couldn't tell what was happening.
-I don't think there's going to be a Heroes for Hire in this universe. Didn't seem like Luke and Danny much cared for each other.

I thought the "plot" of the series was a hot mess. I have no idea how the Hand operate or what exactly they are? Everything about them keeps changing. in Daredevil they were straight up ninjas, in Iron Fist they were like cultists, here they seem to be more militaristic, with guns and stuff. And for having "depleted resources" they sure did manage to summon several tidal waves of goons.

The "fingers" I thought were an ok idea, but again, it changes what we were previously told about the Hand. I want to sit Madam Gao down and have her clearly explain her grand plan to me, because after four seasons with her I still don't have a clue what she's about, and it feels like I should know by now. She carousels around with her motivation more than Little Finger. And Bakuto seems more like a college recruiter than an ancient leader of the Hand.

YES. This was a HUGE plus for me. This was essentially DD S3/JJ S2, LC S2/ IF S2 all in one package. All of the character arcs carried through and we got to pick up where each character left off last time we saw them. This felt like a TRUE crossover where each character's world merged/ collided with the other's. That in of itself, in my opinion, is a huge achievement since that is usually fumbled in crossovers whether on film or tv.

 

[Dasher10]

Yeah, I do think they should be done with The Hand now in these shows.

I think that they'll be back for Iron Fist but three out of four series next year won't have them. Well go through four seasons of Netflix shows before The hand reappear.

 

[KevTravels]

Yeah, I do think they should be done with The Hand now in these shows.

Totally agree.

Perhaps they can borrow the FOOT from TMNT

This season wasn't as GREAT as my mind expected, but it still was pretty good. The first episode was a bore as i really wanted to see everyone together. episode 3-6 was pretty damn GREAT.

I love that we got a lot of Misty and Colleen.

but it's so weird that Claire and Jessica got no scene when it was obvious he was with Luke now.

same as Claire not talking to Matt. Great to see her scene with Foggy.

why such a small cameo with Hogarth?

 

[Repulsor Blast]

the hand plot.. why did them wanting dragon bones to live longer mean that new york would be destroyed??

also funny how jessica lets go of the elevator and then cuts back to daredevil n electra and it never hits the ground.

 

[KevTravels]

I love the Luke and Danny friendship

 

[kguillou]

I hope that....whatever it was that Danny was wearing in that last scene is not supposed to be Danny's "costume" going forward.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So Misty at the end.....

Also, Danny owns a hospital? Not even Stark owns one.

 

[writer0327]

After watching this season, I honestly felt it could have used another couple of episodes. Maybe 10 is the magic number. I would have liked to see the Hand characters fleshed out more, particularly Murakami and Sowande. I thought that Alexandra mentioned that Sowande had some "heart stopping" power, or something to that effect. And when Murakami showed up, it was going to be this "Holy ****!" moment, but at the end of the day, they were just more of the same, they felt no different than the other upper members of the Hand's kronies like Nobu.

Also this idea that "Black Sky" was the Hand's greatest weapon is still lost on me. So it appears that Elektra was just a super badass and that's about it. Nothing remarkably interesting or thrilling or scary. Just really, really good with her skills. I might have bought into her being some kind of scary, super-weapon if she, say, had beaten all 5 members of the Hand singlehandedly without breaking a sweat, then that would have been something. But she basically sneak-stabbed Alexandra and the others just kinda went along with her.

Man, what this series needed was The Kingpin.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

As much as I love how gritty and grounded these shows are it really did feel like they ran out of money towards the end. It never bothered me before, but something about it just felt cheap and I couldn't stop thinking throughout how much more EPIC this stuff could have been with a proper budget, especially in regards to the Hand and their ultimate goal.

To me it made no sense how these endless amount of thugs just kept getting up wanting to fight The Defenders.

 

[2kt09]

I hope that....whatever it was that Danny was wearing in that last scene is not supposed to be Danny's "costume" going forward.

s1 of DD all over again?
lol he finally got a track suit, but for w/e reason has random horizontal stripes.