The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 10

[zenith16]

That's the problem, they're trying to force something that hasn't worked since the beginning. Anything they have her do won't work because it's redundant or because she has no background to warrant a sudden upgrade in expertise or experience. And to spend screen time on her getting them is a waste of time, this isn't The Iris Show. Leader, lightning bolt or rock are pretty bows put on the obvious: Iris isn't necessary most of the time but let's pretend she's doing something important. Looking for ways to make her helpful and useful is why we got such mindbogglingly hokey lines such as "there is no Flash without Iris" and "you're not the Flash, we are", and why she's now the "leader".

oh hello igoogol,


hmm, Something must have gotten lost with what I was addressing the big issue here isn't that she's leader and it's not the character fault it's that the writers left both her character and actress in a directionless state with her carreer cause they are obessed with having people in starlabs standing there

And blaming Cisco and Joe? Really? If they hadn't written it that way, then how could she get to save the day, be the leader? First , it was Barry, now they've added Cisco and Joe to the list of characters used to prop up Iris, and some say this isn't turning into her show.

oh yah this makes it clear that something in what I put up was lost. Nah ,I'm not fully blaming as I said it's not that actor or the character's it's the writers . I don't care to assigning blame. How ever. they did make cisco worry about his date with gypy become the over all focal point of why he didn't think thing's through when barry finally came face to face with kill gore and he had the entire episode which with in the show took a day or two'

two days & night did pass with in the show. and he was repeatedly going on about his date that he cancelled. he has all the time in the world to make up for it. obsessing ain't helping (in many ways )and it was the main thing and why barry got in trouble and was reduced into I can't mode , some tell me what to do , I need a pep talk mode. with cisco it was for sight and the time he need to do im portant thing his mind was obesession and it was about iris.



joe like his daughter lost direction after the idea of the meta human task force which the writer dropped.

now you said something about "blame" truth be told I saying the writers alot here. and lack of direction the with the character.


iris san's season one as my youngest sister said lost direction joe spend too much time at star labs have his aRM'S in why and what happening here position. when he should be mobilising cops every time barry head out to catch a meta criminal .

wally isn't really an issue. but I do agree he shouldn't be knocked out repeatedly. and I remember making it clear legends wasn't the best place for him Especial since DCE has bettercone next to warner & they have control now and the smartest thing to do with him is to make sure the new titan's show is accessible to the universe and have him linked to it. cause the legend's makes no sense for him as other's here on this forum pointed yet again that conversation is long past dead horse.

make wally useful, make him a Founder that has been trained by the flash at least on a teamm he'll have some thing to do nand the actor whill shine and have some to bring back to team flash.


not a bunch of bumbling fool's like they are pushing in Legends sadly to be and those characters with what happen there already and cast wise, that show is already full.

DCE has control with the show's now with Geoff john's overseeing things. they can do what they want now. but their issue is the direction. and not knowing what do with characters and it's happening with their movies as well.


It has nothing do with number's in the cast. there are other shows with larger cast's with out special effect's the writer team on those other shows do fine . the issue is the writers team with in flash(of late which has gone down in qulity past season 1 )and the CW version of the flarrow verse over all.

The thing's they the writer's know they should do thing's But they don't want to do them(the writers)
the writer are the issue here.

 

[Frodo]

Unfortunately , it took the writers a long time before they got a handle on the Iris character and her function in Barry's life and on the show. The actress is good , and I prefer her to be helpful in some way more than her just being the girlfriend or just being a one dimensional love interest.

The writers and show runners did alot of damage to her character in season one and I think they made it hard for alot of fans to get on board with her character going forward. They wrote her as shallow and selfish in season one, and they've been trying to make up for it ever since.

They used Dunst's MJ and Kreuk's Lana Lang as model's for her character, in addition to the writers being weaker in writing the mature relationship dynamics.

 

[igoogol]

Zenith16: the Iris-centric writing is ruining other characters and the show as well as her. You yourself gave examples of this. The writers have very little material to work with when it comes to her, otherwise they wouldn't have to look so hard for ways to make her useful. There is no hiding the fact that she's a single-purpose character, and the only answer is to quit forcing Iris into everything.

Frodo: what you prefer is what we're getting: an increasingly-out-of-place-Iris. The damage done to her is exposing how truly limited the character is, or if you prefer, how shallow and selfish she still is, by continually forcing her into everything.


Or put another way: yes, the writing sucks, but demanding more Iris is pouring gasoline on a wildfire.

To be fair, the writers did try to groom us for this, starting with that ridiculous no flash without Iris in S1, to having her standing around all the time for no reason at all in S2B, to S3's pointless season-long save Iris arc, and now it's "we are" flash. I'm just amazed more people are speaking up against it now. But that "we" was flagrantly egregious.

 

[Frodo]

Frodo: what you prefer is what we're getting: an increasingly-out-of-place-Iris. The damage done to her is exposing how truly limited the character is, or if you prefer, how shallow and selfish she still is, by continually forcing her into everything.


Or put another way: yes, the writing sucks, but demanding more Iris is pouring gasoline on a wildfire.

This is where disagree. I personally don't consider her increasingly out of place. You do , and that's fine. We have different perspectives on the character and her effect on the series.

I don't consider her shallow and selfish now , but she certainly was in the first season. My argument at the time was she needed to be more than just the girlfriend, and certainly needed to be more likable.

I'm fine with the function she has now, but that's mostly because this is a different Iris in my view. Again, if you don't like the function she serves and feel her character is a big problem to the show, I'm not gonna argue with it, because that's you view.

I feel the damage to the series has come mostly come from the show runners writing themselves into corners, using the same formula with speedster villains , having season long mysteries and arcs which are ultimately unsatisfactory , killing off good characters, and basically holding on to the same WB/CW romantic teen formula they've used since Dawson's Creek a generation ago.

I don't consider Iris's role in the series now such a threat to the series that it derails it. But that's my own view as someone as who's watched the show since day one.

 

[spiderman2]

She has no redeeming qualities, it's easy to.

Agree

 

[Primal Slayer]

 

[Hunter Rider]

 

[zenith16]

Zenith16: the Iris-centric writing is ruining other characters and the show as well as her. You yourself gave examples of this. The writers have very little material to work with when it comes to her, otherwise they wouldn't have to look so hard for ways to make her useful. There is no hiding the fact that she's a single-purpose character, and the only answer is to quit forcing Iris into everything.

well igoogol, I also pointed out that time travel was only good in small dosages in season 2 and that mean's once or twice a seaons caue the writers aren't that good they hhad it at the same time they were explore the multiverse. yet they felt the need to use it in season 3 and they came back and said all the very thing's i menationed as points back then too and said it was too differcault for them selve after season 3's end .

I also pointed out that they shouldn't have dropped that meta human task force thing with joe. the thing you just mentioned with iris and said they have the same problem for joe. they introduce something and then they drop it. it should be that hard but they make it that hard them selves


the issue here is the writers and so far frodo is the closet person that on point with what I'm saying here. the issue here is the writers and their formula which a lot of us said last year and over the summer the writers need to change it .

instead of doing the mistake writer make with not paying attention to their audince rection to mistake like giving character bad personality trait's that turn's the audince againts the characters and writers acting confused about it.


But there were warning sign's from other shows of their's on their own channel like Small ville and arrow the the latter being the most recent among other places .like when writer do it it in the comic 's from before that and the better half of the fan base warn them it's not good thing if your not planning villainise them or get ride of them with giving the character dislikable personalitys.

yet they repeat the same mistakes.

also this show was better then arrow then they poicked all the bad mistakes once they notice fans started dislike arrow and it was like they said "hey you know what let make sure arrow doesn't look so bad. let pick up some of it's bad habits. "


it's very much like what happened with the movie "cathy "and why it failed cuse the mcCarty's thought what they wrote was movie comedy material wise gold . but they didn't screen it and the movie going audince didn't dig it.

iris isn't aproblem. it's their approach and their formula. anmd their not realizing they need to give better stories and not have her be completly a damsel in destress and they had locked up astand as set piece at strlabs much like joe is at times.

there were problem with the other characters before she's just a problem cause of what they did to her mistsake wise since season 2. they had something for her with her career as investigative reporter but cause of theuir obseaasion of whant every one to stand there at star labs both her and her father joe becmae set piece's in star labs.
and the fans noticed and cause they refuse to not usein any other way cause they want strlabs used she's there as much as joe is. the writer 's have over used that set peice.

it's not her it's the writers.
there were ton's of way to make her useful they just refuse do so. and now they have to make up to the actress and Audince for putting her inthat situation cause they made thing that and didn't care to notice it before hand.

Again frodo is the closet to this next to what primal slayer and Mcqeen are saying .


Good plots for iris were ignored and it had her them, but they weren't about her it was about barry.

any good plot about her were dropped and its the same case for joe they set pieces on starlabs in both season 2& 3. so the samething your saying about her was done to her first.

 

[flickchick85]

Right there with ya.

 

[mqg96]

I'm gonna be honest, ever since we've gone past Iris' complicated relationship with her mom (Francine West) back in season 2, there hasn't been a true backstory for her character. Since then she's been hanging around the team just being the girlfriend/fiancée of Barry and that's it, including her leadership role this season.

 

[Prettyricky]

I liked this iris better when she didnt know barry was the flash and being a reporter. She was ok still in season 2 to some degree but now telling barry there all the flash and bossing him around just doesnt work for me. I also think there is too many cooks in the star labs kitchen and we still have harry coming back at some point.

 

[igoogol]

Frodo, Zenith: Got it, you like Iris. As someone on this board pointed out to me, even stinky fish have fans. Good for you.

I liked this iris better when she didnt know barry was the flash and being a reporter. She was ok still in season 2 to some degree but now telling barry there all the flash and bossing him around just doesnt work for me. I also think there is too many cooks in the star labs kitchen and we still have harry coming back at some point.

Exactly. I'm not a fan of the team but at least they're experts and the soap opera drama was kept to a minimum, but now they're replaced by Iris who has no qualifications with their relationship drama everywhere. When will they have a Flash who can competently think and act for himself, who isn't always about being with, saving, emo-ing over his girlfriend and needs both her and a team to save the day? IOW, when will the superhero be a superhero in more than name only.

 

[Frodo]

Frodo, Zenith: Got it, you like Iris. As someone on this board pointed out to me, even stinky fish have fans. Good for you.

Yeah, I'm fine with her character now. If that changes I won't be shy about it. You don't like her , and that's fine. Its not the end of the world if people have differing opinions on a character.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Yeah, I'm fine with her character now. If that changes I won't be shy about it. You don't like her , and that's fine. Its not the end of the world if people have differing opinions on a character.

I can't think of any main or key supporting characters on the Flash who have been poorly written. Several of them have had brief periods where the writers were reaching to find something to do with him/her, but they're all well-conceived.

 

[zenith16]

Frodo, Zenith: Got it, you like Iris. As someone on this board pointed out to me, even stinky fish have fans. Good for you.

well I don't hate her and please don't misunderstand this,

But she is a victim of what the CW writers have done to other characters of which there is a pattern .she's not the worst thing on tv as they aren't ether, but there is a pattern the CW has, of which I've noticed and I'm a very observant person. and I'll point it out when I see it.


And I hope for them to fix those mistakes looking forward.

I just wish they'd notice them faster and would take better steps instead of writing themselves into corners (which they do often)and using the thing they have warning signs prior to on other series they have done, not to go into again like giving character poor or annoying character personalities.

And lastly not put unnecessary restrictions on thing's that will be helpful to themselves as writers or to the characters or series they have themselves.

 

[confused]

IOW, when will the superhero be a superhero in more than name only.

Yes, i agree.

I liked the 1st Season because it shows the possibilities of a speedster and their training to get/control their abilities.
As a show about someone with superpowers, there should be a lot more to write about other than relationship/mystery/crime/drama.

The Flash can use the SpeedForce to speed-up(accelerate) things, can he also use it to slow things down(decelerate), like catching bullets by absorbing their energy/inertia/momentum?

Can he use more of the SpeedForce to offset his food/energy requirements?

Can he help others to heal faster(speed-up healing) by using his powers?

Can the Flash speed-up his brain to make himself smarter/wiser?
Can the Flash have Parallel Thinking/Thought Acceleration/Memory Partition/Occlumency/any mind-powers whatsoever?
Can he read an entire library superfast thus gaining massive amounts of knowledge?

Can the Flash use small amounts of Chronokinesis to reverse the time of a small broken object to fix it?
Can he use it just to see a certain amount of the past of a place/thing or predict the future?

Can he speed-up himself to vibrate(Vibe) at certain frequencies?

Can the Flash vibrate air molecules to create fire powers?
Can he absorb heat-energy/flames/fire to put out fires/freeze things?

If the Flash can generate speed-lightning, could he also have other lightning powers?
Can he generate/control other electromagnetic spectrums?
Can he absorb electricity to power up even more?

After Season 03, should the Flash make/wear armor like Savitar to help protect himself or increase his strength/abilities?

Couldn't the Show/Writers/Producers use all of the above and many more to make multiple episodes better than the current trend?

 

[Avenging Angel]

I'm gonna be honest, ever since we've gone past Iris' complicated relationship with her mom (Francine West) back in season 2, there hasn't been a true backstory for her character. Since then she's been hanging around the team just being the girlfriend/fiancée of Barry and that's it, including her leadership role this season.

Bingo. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Being marginally attractive is just not good enough.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Iris may not be dumb but she is definitely not an expert in anything that has to do with science, biology, or mechanics.

And the fact that Barry had to be written into a situation where only Iris could help him figure out a solution for a tech-based problem after the rest of Team Flash have helped Barry overcome bigger problems in the last 3 plus years is just silly.

Things like Iris updating Barry over things like a roadway being under construction while he was still in the speed force makes sense. But other things, not so much.

And I hate on how they always have to give Iris some forced angst/issue which always results in the other characters apologizing to her when they were innocent.

She has said lines like "Do something!" "OK, guys, what do we do?" "How (insert random simple science question a 3 year old would ask)" "Guys, can we have the room alone for a minute?" That happens at least once each episode. Prepare for a tolerance draining pep talk.

She's not qualified in any field to advise scientists on how to solve issues. If that's true then every fangirl tumblr blogger has a shot to lead. Team Flash doesn't need her, she often slows down the operation whenever she inserts herself.

Yeah I do hate that, the writers are repeating a pattern with her. Everything with her down to her step-brother Barry, is forced.

 

[Primal Slayer]

 

[Hunter Rider]

Why did you post this in the "Moan about Iris" thread? .......Oh wait, this is The Flash general discussion thread, my bad.

 

[Nathan]

When will they have a Flash who can competently think and act for himself, who isn't always about being with, saving, emo-ing over his girlfriend and needs both her and a team to save the day? IOW, when will the superhero be a superhero in more than name only.

I think we only got that Flash once during the Supergirl cross-over, when his entire supporting cast was an entire universe away. If Flash would be remotely competent all by himself, his supporting cast in their current capacity, would be almost entirely useless.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Why did you post this in the "Moan about Iris" thread? .......Oh wait, this is The Flash general discussion thread, my bad.

Can you imagine if Iris was in Ciscos position on the poster with Barry standing in the back...yikes.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Can you imagine if Iris was in Ciscos position on the poster with Barry standing in the back...yikes.

 

[legendkillin]

Joe has swimmers.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Apparently, didn't see that coming.