The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 4

[Astro13Zombie]

eh

 

[Cain]

"The only debate we had amongst ourselves was 'how long will the audience accept knowing that he's the villain,' and having the rest of our characters not know, which is something that we've been dealing with for the back half of the season. Are people going to feel like they're dumb for not realizing this?

I think part of what's keeping this next stream of episodes going is how good at hiding his villainy Wells is, and how strong Tom's performance is, and having episodes like 'The Sound and the Fury' where he really is being incredibly selfless, and yet, part of you knows it's all a show, and it's all fake… but just how effective it really is, and even moreso than that, how much you want it to not be true," he said.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=58826

 

[Cain]

It's not about that specifically. It's more about the fact that this show is positioning Barry and co as the brighter, more wholesome/optimistic heroes in contrast to Arrow's more grounded, gritty, street vigilante elements. And yet these "heroes" seem to be holding these metahumans indefinately in what essentially amounts to a private prison with seemingly no legal recourse whatsoever (have they even been charge with a crime yet, or seen a lawyer, or something) and the facility itself seems less humane actual prisons. The "darker" Arrow show at least sends it's criminals, well the one's that survive, to actual prisons. It's a dichotomy that needs to be addressed at some point.

Those are just assumptions though. Nobody knows what the case is with the meta-human prison until the show itself definitively explains it. Which according to an interview with the showrunner back in December will happen fairly soon.

 

[taigawithapen]

Do you guys think there was any sort of foreshadowing going on when Wells said he wasnt going to rebuild the particle accelerator during that press conference? I havent seen anybody talk about it so I was just wonder if I was the only one who got a weird vibe from that.

 

[Norek]

This is the biggest problem on the show currently.
If word were to get out, team flash would go to jail themselves for wrongful imprisonment. These people don't even get a trail! Or a toilet! How to they feed them? If they can hold Mist, they must be air-tight, right?

I guess The Flush won't be coming to their rescue...

 

[Cybermaxis]

It's not about that specifically. It's more about the fact that this show is positioning Barry and co as the brighter, more wholesome/optimistic heroes in contrast to Arrow's more grounded, gritty, street vigilante elements. And yet these "heroes" seem to be holding these metahumans indefinately in what essentially amounts to a private prison with seemingly no legal recourse whatsoever (have they even been charge with a crime yet, or seen a lawyer, or something) and the facility itself seems less humane actual prisons. The "darker" Arrow show at least sends it's criminals, well the one's that survive, to actual prisons. It's a dichotomy that needs to be addressed at some point.

I'm gonna start a new hashtag. #Supervillainlivesmatter

 

[haephestus]

Do you guys think there was any sort of foreshadowing going on when Wells said he wasnt going to rebuild the particle accelerator during that press conference? I havent seen anybody talk about it so I was just wonder if I was the only one who got a weird vibe from that.

I thought the same. I don't recall there being any mention of the possibility of rebuilding it at any point before and it seemed a weird question for someone to ask at Wells' first (?) major public appearance/press conference since the explosion.

It definitely seemed that they were planting the seeds for the particle accelerator to be rebuilt, although that may be difficult since it's currently being used as a metahuman prison.

 

[Mikelus]

On another note, I don't know about anyone else, but I really feel like the quality of "Arrow" has been spiraling down as of late.

Which is why i'm so grateful that we at least have this show to lean back on in terms of the CW-DCU.

Well, you know this quality won't last, the show has several flaws already and it will have plenty of bad writing like Smallville and Arrow, is just a matter of time.

Agreed. I'm still enjoying it, but the overall story is sloppy. I'm wondering if it's because Kreisberg left to run The Flash.

Kreisberg works on both shows: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132610/#producer

I only watched like the first 8 episodes of season one of the arrow and found it boring and dull and then stoped watching it. I like this show way more.

Unless you really don't care about the character, the show gets better in the second half of S1, then most of S2 is pretty good, most fans agree on this.


On the whole villains' rights issue, what Team Flash is doing is illegal, no one gave them the right to be judge, jury and executioner. The excuse that it doesn't matter because is a silly superhero show doesn't cut it, this is not a cartoon, a minimum of reality should apply and would benefit the show by creating some organic conflict.

 

[Paradox1]

Your underestimating the writers of this show. In this universe, the meta human prison is a necessary evil.They can't be held in Iron Heights,turning them over to the government to a guy Eiling seems like a fate worse than death. So for now their prison is the best thing for them.

For those prisoners to go to a regular prison with courts and all that. I think there would be some kind of movement for meta human rights. Even that wouldn't stop Eilinga and others like him from ripping into some poor soul.

 

[Mikelus]

Your underestimating the writers of this show. In this universe, the meta human prison is a necessary evil.They can't be held in Iron Heights,turning them over to the government to a guy Eiling seems like a fate worse than death. So for now their prison is the best thing for them.

I'm not underestimating the same producers behind a lot of nonsense on both Arrow and this show. They could've done a much better job showing how they treat their prisoners and explain a secret government agency uses Star Labs as a temporary solution to the metahuman problem. But Berlanti & co are just too mediocre to care about these little details, no wonder they also wrote the awful Green Lantern movie.

 

[Cain]

*sighs* I guess this demands a repost

Just out of curiosity, how do the meta-humans that Team Flash keep locking up get food, and who’s feeding them?

KREISBERG: We’re actually going to address that in an upcoming episode. I know a bunch of people have asked how they get bathroom breaks, and whatnot. So, if that is one of the burning questions people have, the answer to that will be coming in 2015.

 

[Travesty]

This show is so fantastical, that I don't know why the prison is bothering people?

Fictional characters are real people too, damn it!

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Well, you know this quality won't last, the show has several flaws already and it will have plenty of bad writing like Smallville and Arrow, is just a matter of time.




Kreisberg works on both shows: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1132610/#producer




Unless you really don't care about the character, the show gets better in the second half of S1, then most of S2 is pretty good, most fans agree on this.


On the whole villains' rights issue, what Team Flash is doing is illegal, no one gave them the right to be judge, jury and executioner. The excuse that it doesn't matter because is a silly superhero show doesn't cut it, this is not a cartoon, a minimum of reality should apply and would benefit the show by creating some organic conflict.

Being a masked vigilante as a whole is illegal so whats the big deal about Team Flash having their own prison? The cops cant handle Metahumans, Joe West has admitted and is why he works with the off the books.

 

[Boy Scout]

Do you guys think there was any sort of foreshadowing going on when Wells said he wasnt going to rebuild the particle accelerator during that press conference? I havent seen anybody talk about it so I was just wonder if I was the only one who got a weird vibe from that.

I thought the same thing.

Being a masked vigilante as a whole is illegal so whats the big deal about Team Flash having their own prison? The cops cant handle Metahumans, Joe West has admitted and is why he works with the off the books.

One illegal activity doesn't excuse all others.

The issue with keeping metahumans locked up in the Accelerator has little to do with wanting their rights to be respected or caring about them as human beings and pretty much everything to do with how it makes the protagonists look. We can assume that the prisoners are provided with food, bathroom breaks, and entertainment, but there are some things that just need to be seen (or at least addressed).

And yes, I'm well aware that the issue will be addressed.

 

[taigawithapen]

Dream scenario: Next season the metas break out for some reason. This forces Argus to create a Supermax Prison to hold them and then this leads to a story arc for Arrow based off of the Supermax movie script.

MAKE IT HAPPEN DC!

 

[Juracan]

The Meta prison is of course against the law, Star Labs has no legal right to hold anyone no matter what laws they have broken or threat they pose to society. The Metas are not read their rights. They don't get legal representation since they never have their day in court. Though we can all agree that regular prisons could not hold the Metas the law would hold Star Labs accountable for illegally incarcerating people if they were discovered.

But on a side note while we can argue the legality or the "right" thing to do with law braking Metas the one problem I did have is when a Meta wrecks the side of a building with some super weapon in broad daylight right in front of the police and the police allow The Flash to "take" him away. The Flash did this in episode 11, The Sound and the Fury. Though you do not see the Flash carry Hartley Rathaway away the Flash does appear at Star Labs with him in tow.

In such a case where the police are witnesses to a Meta crime the Flash can not “take away” a Meta, the police would try to stop him. Yes, we all know they couldn’t stop him but they would try nonetheless. The Flash successfully evading the police would be sought after as a possible accomplice in the crimes committed by the Meta.

Vigilantism is against the law and while the police would appreciate help against Meta humans the police answer to superiors who eventually answer to Mayors, Governors, insurance companies, etc, etc, etc. Someone has to be held accountable to all the property damage and loss of life.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I thought the same thing.



One illegal activity doesn't excuse all others.

The issue with keeping metahumans locked up in the Accelerator has little to do with wanting their rights to be respected or caring about them as human beings and pretty much everything to do with how it makes the protagonists look. We can assume that the prisoners are provided with food, bathroom breaks, and entertainment, but there are some things that just need to be seen (or at least addressed).

And yes, I'm well aware that the issue will be addressed.

My point is the nature of what they do is illegal so why are people complaining about this?

 

[Sterling Archer]

I think people might be more ok with the prison thing if it at least made logistical sense, but as others pointed out it seems like they don't even get a bathroom or food since we have seen no evidence towards that.

Also Hartley is not a metahuman, so the only reason he is even in there is to have his storyline with Cisco.

 

[Boy Scout]

My point is the nature of what they do is illegal so why are people complaining about this?

You go into almost every superhero property knowing that you're going to see characters cooperating with, but ultimately acting outside of the law for (usually) altruistic reasons. You either accept that from the jump or you don't, because it's a staple of the genre. Vigilantism and illegal inprisonment are two very different things. You can't compare the two because they aren't the same thing. It's like comparing wearing a colorful costume and starvation.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

You go into almost every superhero property knowing that you're going to see characters cooperating with, but ultimately acting outside of the law for (usually) altruistic reasons. You either accept that from the jump or you don't, because it's a staple of the genre. Vigilantism and illegal inprisonment are two very different things. You can't compare the two because they aren't the same thing. It's like comparing wearing a colorful costume and starvation.

If you're willing to accept the reasons why the Flash has to operate outside the law then you should be willing to accept why Star Labs needs their own private prison. Do they need to show meal time and Cisco installing a toilet main? probably, but the whole "illegal imprisonment" argument is ridiculous.

 

[Boy Scout]

If you're willing to accept the reasons why the Flash has to operate outside the law then you should be willing to accept why Star Labs needs their own private prison.

You don't seem to realize the issues people have with that private prison. It's a great and necessary idea in theory, but the way the prison is actually set up, and the lack of visual or verbal confirmation of the wellbeing of the individuals inside, make our protagonists look disturbingly negligent at best.

Do they need to show meal time and Cisco installing a toilet main? probably, but the whole "illegal imprisonment" argument is ridiculous.

It's not, but we obviously aren't going to agree any time soon.

 

[Juracan]

I fully understand that the ends justify the means. There is no other recourse but to establish a Meta Prison regardless of its legality. I just have a problem when the law is flagrantly abused right in front of the police and there is no reaction by the police. Police/FBI/Etc movies/tv shows are filled with different government agencies arguing jurisdiction. It's to early in the show for the police to "bend" their knee in the presence of "Heroes".

What happens in a dark alley stays stays in a dark alley until the police are contacted but what happens in broad daylight in front of dozens of witness, police, new reporters can't just be ignored; especially in the age of cell phone cameras.

 

[Loki882]

So do they have lawyers? Have they been charged with anything yet? If so, do they get transported to and from the court and how? Do the authorities have access to this facility? Or are these private citizens just locking these people up in their own personal, less than humane, prison indefinitely, with no legal recourse? That doesn't sound very "heroic." And the fact that they seem to have no access to toilets, food, showers, or even a freaking bed just makes it seem even worse.

It's not about even caring about these villains as individuals. It's about caring about due process and worrying about the unintended consequences. If it were a special facility built to contain metahumans that the AUTHORITIES operate/have access to, and we see that these accused get due process, then there wouldn't really be a problem. But as it stands, it seems to be a private facility run by private individuals where people are just thrown in and left to rot without any kind of due process. Maybe it's just the law student in me, but that's not only wrong imo, it's scary.

 

[Orb]

^What he said

 

[Guts]

To people getting hooked on the details that has to do with the prison.
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