The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 4

[Supernova]

Based on the way they presented barrys first time jump is he assumed his body but mentally knows everything that he witnessed in the future, kind of like
The ashton kutcher time Movie butterfly affect. Unlike back to the future
Where You have multiple martys running around.

 

[erehwon0]

My theory for the next episode will be that Barry will realize that he can do a do-over of the day a la Groundhog Day, change what happened so that Mark Mardon will be caught earlier. This will erase the former timeline (the identity reveal, Cisco's death, etc.) This will then reinforce his desire to go save his mother.

Bring on Flashpoint!

 

[SpideyVille]

Yup.

My take on this issue is if Barry from current time-line (who has time traveled into the past) does anything to interfere with the events occurring in that time, he immediately creates a new alternate time line, which means the older Barry ceases (as you ave mentioned) to exist, the events that are going to happen have not been witnessed by anyone yet.

Now my head is hurting. I kinda like what Supernova said about only his mind or consciousness traveling back. If his body went back, where is his past body from that time? Is it a matter of there not being able to mix of the same particles in one time, so if Barry were to meet Barry, they'd combine?

 

[Micromind]

Now my head is hurting. I kinda like what Supernova said about only his mind or consciousness traveling back. If his body went back, where is his past body from that time? Is it a matter of there not being able to mix of the same particles in one time, so if Barry were to meet Barry, they'd combine?

Only consciousness traveling back in time can be done too, like they did it in Superman II (we never get two versions of Superman in that movie)

 

[Supernova]

Only consciousness traveling back in time can be done too, like they did it in Superman II (we never get two versions of Superman in that movie)

If they went the wolverine days of future past route where just his mind travels back to his younger body i would as a non comic viewer find to follow that much easier.

Having said that it would be neat if everytime barry time jumps we get to see his self racing against his self like we saw this episode where past and present were running side by side.

 

[SpideyVille]

My brain .... it hurts already!!!

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'm interested in seeing the Flashpoint storyline, but doesn't that mean that Arrow would have to be impacted by that storyline too? I would rather see another normal season of Arrow than a crazy Flashpoint timeline season

 

[DOBSON10]

I'm surprised how many people love this show, saying things like "Best Show on TV", "Better than the movies" etc, etc. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the show enough to keep watching it but it's hardly special in my eyes. Though I've noticed for awhile now that my tastes usually don't aline with the tastes of the general audience on about 90% of things that are popular in today's culture, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

It's a good little show but some of the superlatives used in this thread to describe how good this show is are a bit much. But to each their own and I digress.

I thought this recent episode was OK, interesting enough to keep my attention throughout but definitely wouldn't call it great. I've never been a fan of doing things only to immediately ret-con them through mostly contrived means. Even with time travel being a big part of the Flashes storyline, just seems weak and overused to me.

Definitely disappointed that Sisco's death isn't going to stick, I find that character and actor extremely annoying and one of the weakest parts of the show. Writing him off would make me more interested going forward.

Iris isn't far behind him that regard, I think the actress is weak, her performance is weak and her storyline is underdeveloped for several reasons, the main one being her jump from thinking of Barry as her nerdy Brother to suddenly being in love with him. Still baffled at how they could cast Danielle Panebaker in the show, but not give her the role of Iris West, she's a lightyears better actress and fits the more traditional version of the character much better than Patton. And personally, of all the duo's on the show that have the best chemistry in terms of romance, that episode with her and Barry going on a friends-date showed that they have way more chemistry together than he has with Linda or Iris, and also more than Iris and Eddie and even her and Ronny, IMO. All that said, I'd rather tone down all the romantic angles period and focus more on the Flash.

It's a good little show, hopefully it doesn't start spinning off into dumb storylines like Arrow seems to have done. I still like Arrow alittle better but man, has that show dropped off this season.

 

[DrCosmic]

I'm surprised how many people love this show, saying things like "Best Show on TV", "Better than the movies" etc, etc. I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the show enough to keep watching it but it's hardly special in my eyes. Though I've noticed for awhile now that my tastes usually don't aline with the tastes of the general audience on about 90% of things that are popular in today's culture, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

It's a good little show but some of the superlatives used in this thread to describe how good this show is are a bit much. But to each their own and I digress.

There's two things that make this show "The best show on television."

1) It's good at being a superhero show. It's the only such on tv right now, and it's true to that silver age feel-good vibe. It's a team of heroes more or less taking down bad guys with physical prowess and a little smarts. It is that male power fantasy but filtered through a kind of hyper-morality. It's why everyone who got into superheroes during adolescence did so. Flash is right in the pocket of that.

2) It's consistent, and thus delivers that superhero feel-good feeling more often than any other property. For example the feeling Iron Man has given a few times: (the first flight in IM1, taking down the terrorists in IM1, the IMvWar Machine fight in IM2, taking out the drones in IM2 and saving the falling people in IM3), Flash has delivered more often, and in a much smaller time span. The train rescue, the sonic boom punch, the fight with Arrow, The fights with Reverse Flash, and most importantly, the promise of many more. People were UPSET when Flash took a normal tv spring break. Why?

So while there are numerous technical and narrative issues with the Flash, it's a bit like putting good coffee in an ugly cup, in a stinky shop, with bad service. Yeah, you can complain about the delivery, but if all you care about is that feeling you get while drinking good coffee... well. Best show on television.

 

[SpideyVille]

I was just reading some stuff from the Iris thread and it reminded me, did they reboot Barry's relationship history?

A few episode ago, Iris said that she couldn't remember Barry ever dating someone, which implied he never had a girlfriend because he was so set on her and couldn't love another girl. But last episode, they have a convo about how she used to tease him about his girlfriend in high school.

I feel like they just retconned that in so Barry and Iris could have something to connect to on the show, as opposed to reminding us how they were close as kids.

 

[BestGirl]

Did either of them explicitly state that Barry had dated Becky Cooper? Maybe she was just a crush, or some chick that was constantly chasing after him. If not, that would be quite sloppy of the writers.

 

[SpideyVille]

Did either of them explicitly state that Barry had dated Becky Cooper? Maybe she was just a crush, or some chick that was constantly chasing after him. If not, that would be quite sloppy of the writers.

I don't have the exact lines or clip, but from what I remember, Iris implied they were dating and that's why she teased him, because, as she said, she knew she wasn't the right girl for him, just like she knows Linda isn't.

However, it could be spun around that Iris was purposely trying to sabotage his chances with Linda from the start, using the line about him not having a girlfriend as a way to say he's inexperienced and she shouldn't bother because he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[DrCosmic]

I was just reading some stuff from the Iris thread and it reminded me, did they reboot Barry's relationship history?

A few episode ago, Iris said that she couldn't remember Barry ever dating someone, which implied he never had a girlfriend because he was so set on her and couldn't love another girl. But last episode, they have a convo about how she used to tease him about his girlfriend in high school.

I feel like they just retconned that in so Barry and Iris could have something to connect to on the show, as opposed to reminding us how they were close as kids.

From "The Nuclear Man"
Linda: "Has he ever dated anyone before? Because he's simultaneously very good at it and very bad at it."
Iris: "I dunno, he's Barry."
Linda: "What was his last girlfriend like?"
Iris: "Y'know, he hasn't really had a real girlfriend in a while."

This is what really trips me out about the conversation around Iris. People, not just you, feel like she said things she didn't say, or didn't say things she did. It's craaaazy. Especially when you add conclusions about what the writers were intending based on these personal feelings. Like Frodo said in the Iris thread, it's really all about writing.

 

[SpideyVille]

From "The Nuclear Man"
Linda: "Has he ever dated anyone before? Because he's simultaneously very good at it and very bad at it."
Iris: "I dunno, he's Barry."
Linda: "What was his last girlfriend like?"
Iris: "Y'know, he hasn't really had a real girlfriend in a while."

This is what really trips me out about the conversation around Iris. People, not just you, feel like she said things she didn't say, or didn't say things she did. It's craaaazy. Especially when you add conclusions about what the writers were intending based on these personal feelings. Like Frodo said in the Iris thread, it's really all about writing.

I don't know, I guess it also has to do with her delivery of the lines.

But I can''t remember her outright telling Linda that Barry was still in love with her, yet the very next scene Barry is pissed because Linda told him she knew. Like that's a case where she didn't say something in the show, but the characters are reacting the same way to her.

 

[DrCosmic]

I don't know, I guess it also has to do with her delivery of the lines.

But I can''t remember her outright telling Linda that Barry was still in love with her, yet the very next scene Barry is pissed because Linda told him she knew. Like that's a case where she didn't say something in the show, but the characters are reacting the same way to her.

That's a good point. It doesn't seem so crazy to me because Barry didn't hear and see the convo, but you're right, it is something that comes from the writing. So sad.

Edit: It's still incredible to me that you feel like it was in her delivery somehow. She didn't sound sarcastic, so in what other way can someone say something and be taken to mean the opposite. The only way that happens is if we have already decided not to listen to them before they speak. The show has trained us to do that with Iris. What she says is not important, to anyone. That's not a delivery issue. That's in the writing.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I'm interested in seeing the Flashpoint storyline, but doesn't that mean that Arrow would have to be impacted by that storyline too? I would rather see another normal season of Arrow than a crazy Flashpoint timeline season

No. None of the comics stopped during Flashpoint.

 

[TeeKay]

So since Iris won't know hes the Flash because Barry undoes that day, do you think he'll still tell Iris or he'll just make a move on her?

 

[Herolee10]

So since Iris won't know hes the Flash because Barry undoes that day, do you think he'll still tell Iris or he'll just make a move on her?

Well, I think Candice mentioned that Iris is going to feel betrayed when she does find out about Barry's secret.

So I'm assuming that she'll learn at a later time, under potentially worse circumstances...which will act as the proverbial cliche factor of keeping them apart as a couple until a later period.

 

[TeeKay]

As long as they don't drag it out to like season 2 or something. This whole the love interest shouldn't know is cliche and I feel they had dragged it out long enough and I was happy when he reveed himself to her until he tried back in Time and i knew it would be wiped.

 

[Rocketman]

So I'm having a little bit of difficulty understanding Dr. Wells' motives/plot, so I thought I'd write it all out to visually see it from Point A to B, and I see a time paradox.

- Harrison Wells is actually Eobard Thawne.

- Eobard Thawne is from a time centuries in the future. We don’t know what year.

- For some reason, he needs to kill Nora Allen.

- Thawne travels back in time to 1998 to kill Nora Allen and succeeds.

- However, Thawne gets stuck in 1998 and is in our time for 15 years.

- During these 15 years, Thawne goes by the name of Harrison Wells, a physicist who is trying to build a Particle Accelerator.

- (If Thawne builds the Particle Accelerator, it will affect Barry Allen and turn him into The Flash, getting super speeds that will potentially help Thawne get back to his time in the future.)

- 15 years pass and we’re in 2013. The Particle Accelerator is turned on. Barry is struck by lightning.

- Barry is in a coma for 9 months. When he wakes up, it’s 2014.

- Thawne is pushing Barry to go faster, because it will eventually lead to time travel and allow Thawne to go back to his time.

- If Thawne gets back to his time, he’ll need to go back in time to 1998 to kill Nora Allen.

So I guess the question is: Why does he need to kill Nora Allen?

 

[regnak]

He doesn't he said he was trying to kill Barry.

 

[Nathan]

Nora was an accident.

 

[protocida]

I hope Iris doesn't pull a Laurel upon learning Barry's secret.

 

[Justin]

My take on what I saw and what's in next weeks trailer is that barry going back in time resets the entire world to that point and anything that happened in between that time has been undone. So if in the new timeline he never mentions to Cisco about the press reporter asking about harrison, cisco will never start his investigation and be murdered. Somewhere out there will be a timeline where weather wizard has tsunami'd central city and cisco is dead.

However it looks like they're writing in the rule that "whatever tragedy you think you avert, another will take its place". i.e we see Cisco in another life/death situation.

They need a rule such as this to avoid "going back in time" as a solution to every problem or fight being lost. Plus erasing everything, such as his kiss with Iris, will ensure he and the writers will only use it when absolutely necessary. Having the ability to affect everyone elses life like that would probably make him feel responsible for it and use it only when needed.

 

[DrCosmic]

I hope Iris doesn't pull a Laurel upon learning Barry's secret.

Becoming a vigilante?

I'll tell you one thing, it would be surprising.

So I'm having a little bit of difficulty understanding Dr. Wells' motives/plot, so I thought I'd write it all out to visually see it from Point A to B, and I see a time paradox.

- Harrison Wells is actually Eobard Thawne.

- Eobard Thawne is from a time centuries in the future. We don’t know what year.

- For some reason, he needs to kill Nora Allen.

- Thawne travels back in time to 1998 to kill Nora Allen and succeeds.

- However, Thawne gets stuck in 1998 and is in our time for 15 years.

- During these 15 years, Thawne goes by the name of Harrison Wells, a physicist who is trying to build a Particle Accelerator.

- (If Thawne builds the Particle Accelerator, it will affect Barry Allen and turn him into The Flash, getting super speeds that will potentially help Thawne get back to his time in the future.)

- 15 years pass and we’re in 2013. The Particle Accelerator is turned on. Barry is struck by lightning.

- Barry is in a coma for 9 months. When he wakes up, it’s 2014.

- Thawne is pushing Barry to go faster, because it will eventually lead to time travel and allow Thawne to go back to his time.

- If Thawne gets back to his time, he’ll need to go back in time to 1998 to kill Nora Allen.

So I guess the question is: Why does he need to kill Nora Allen?

Wait... IS Thawne going back to 1998? Does he need to? Once Flash's time travel can be hijacked, he can go back home. No sweat. Nora's already dead, and Thawne doesn't know that Barry knows he's going back in time. He's quite content to obfuscate Barry's encounters with time travel, as much as they alarm him. And as others have said, Thawne's goal was to kill Barry, so my question is...

What would killing Barry before Nora's death do that killing her afterwards wouldn't?