The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 9

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We've had one confirmed metahuman who wasn't anywhere near Central City when the explosion happened. Other than that, so far all metahumans were in or near the place. So, its probably "metahumans happen elsewhere, but Central City is the epicenter." Whether they existed beforehand or not? Who knows, though the JSA clearly had several people with overt superhuman powers. Granted, Obsidian might have gotten his powers from a mystical source or a specific science accident.

Do you remember who that was?

Also what I meant (but didn't explain properly) was where there known cases of metahumans (as opposed to magic, genetic, technology, etc.) in the world prior to the Star Labs explosion, which simply caused a higher concentration in one area? Or did the explosion create the mutation?

I had thought that metas were created by the accident however Julian is "the world's foremost expert on metahumans", even by Team Arrow. This suggests that they already existed and why he was hired by the police, otherwise Team Arrow would be the top experts.

There are multiple sources of powers in the Arrowverse:
Particle accelerator explosion (metahumans)
Magic (Constantine, Vixen, etc)
alien biology (Supergirl, Martian Manhunter, etc)
cybernetic enhancement (Cyborg Superman, Deadshot)
genetic enhancement (Deathstroke and his super soldiers)
enchanted items (Hawks, Vandal Savage)
external advanced tech (the Atom, Mr Terrific)
divinity (Savitar, Manny the Angel)

We don't have explanations for how all of the JSA's powers work

Yes, I know but I was wondering wether metas existed already.
 
Do you remember who that was?

Also what I meant (but didn't explain properly) was where there known cases of metahumans (as opposed to magic, genetic, technology, etc.) in the world prior to the Star Labs explosion, which simply caused a higher concentration in one area? Or did the explosion create the mutation?

I had thought that metas were created by the accident however Julian is "the world's foremost expert on metahumans", even by Team Arrow. This suggests that they already existed and why he was hired by the police, otherwise Team Arrow would be the top experts.


he was that cyclops like character, (hmm I for got his name )that both Ray Palmer discussed with Cisco.

Since then it seems that the legends inadvertently helped create some of them like the Negative woman through stein & jax's powers in season 1 of legends and that nazi hulk creature when citzen steel met his grand father commander steel that was on vixen team in the JSa in legends too. which ray created.
 
I don't think those count as "metahumans" in the strict sense. Or at least, the shows seem to distinguish between metahumans ( created by exposure to dark energy ), and other forms of genetic superhumans. A synthetic metahuman is more than just someone with genetic superpowers, they have to be created in part by deliberate exposure to dark energy.
 
he was that cyclops like character, (hmm I for got his name )that both Ray Palmer discussed with Cisco.

Since then it seems that the legends inadvertently helped create some of them like the Negative woman through stein & jax's powers in season 1 of legends and that nazi hulk creature when citzen steel met his grand father commander steel that was on vixen team in the JSa in legends too. which ray created.

Was it the guy played by Doug Jones? It never made sense to me why Captain Cold killed him. Snart was not a murderer according to the show.

I don't think those other two are considered meta humans. The Nazi guy transformed because of something Palmer made and the Russian tried to make herself compatible for Firestorm. Synthetic metas maybe, not actual metas.

According to Arrowverse science, are people born with a meta gene and that is why some transform and others don't? Or is it just purely random?
 
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Was it the guy played by Doug Jones? It never made sense to me why Captain Cold killed him. Snart was not a murderer according to the show.

Didn't Snart shoot and kill one of his own henchmen in his very first episode on The Flash because the henchman tried to back out? They even had a call back to Snart's "you leave, you die" policy in the Mirror Master episode earlier this season where they had the flashback to Particle Accelerator explosion that created Mirror Master.

And then, I think it was the first Captain Cold and Heatwave team up, Snart shot some guy in a theater and Flash couldn't save him in time. And then last season, Snart straight up shot his own dad through the heart and killed him. He's been a murderer since day one. That is one of the things that was so weird about him suddenly turning good on Legends of Tomorrow and why Rip would bring him into the fold at all.
 
Didn't Snart shoot and kill one of his own henchmen in his very first episode on The Flash because the henchman tried to back out? They even had a call back to Snart's "you leave, you die" policy in the Mirror Master episode earlier this season where they had the flashback to Particle Accelerator explosion that created Mirror Master.

And then, I think it was the first Captain Cold and Heatwave team up, Snart shot some guy in a theater and Flash couldn't save him in time. And then last season, Snart straight up shot his own dad through the heart and killed him. He's been a murderer since day one. That is one of the things that was so weird about him suddenly turning good on Legends of Tomorrow and why Rip would bring him into the fold at all.

I remember it as Snart shooting his minion because he had killed a guard - turning it from robbery to murder.

It was different situation with his Dad. He had abused them and was a threat to his sister. However, I had forgot about that museum guard he froze. Are you sure he died?

EDIT: You are right. The guard did die. It was the first Captain Cold episode.

Barry was fairly convinced that Snart had a code of honour and was better than being a thief. That doesn't work if he had murdered an innocent man.
 
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Okay but

Season 1, episode 3.

Caitlin: "He[Ronnie] often said we were like fire and ice"

That was pretty amazing foreshadowing there, props to the script writers dang.
 
I just finished binging Fringe, and while I was watching, I realized that there was something about the (incredible) production design/sets that really reminded me of the Flash, particularly S.T.A.R. labs (beyond both being filmed in Vancouver obviously).

I was thus very happy to discover that the production designer for Fringe also served as the production designer for the pilot of the Flash.
 
Originally Posted by Mask&Cape
Was it the guy played by Doug Jones? It never made sense to me why Captain Cold killed him. Snart was not a murderer according to the show.

well i remember him as the character rather the the actor that whay I said I had trouble remember his name, but not his powers but yes death bolt's actor was Doug jones

and yeah he was killed by snart

Originally Posted by Mask&Cape
I don't think those other two are considered meta humans. The Nazi guy transformed because of something Palmer made and the Russian tried to make herself compatible for Firestorm. Synthetic metas maybe, not actual metas.

the nazi guy one second his name is baron Von Kriegernand he's listed there as other source of mutation in the wikia


from the arrow verse or (what we call the flarrow verse) wikia
Meta-human

[FONT=&quot]Meta[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-[/FONT][FONT=&quot]human[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s, shortened as [/FONT][FONT=&quot]meta[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s, and often referred to as super[/FONT][FONT=&quot]human[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s, are individuals who acquired powers and abilities unlike those of normal [/FONT][FONT=&quot]human[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s after experiencing mutation of their bodies (in comparison to magic users, who learned how to[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]harness primordial energies without being mutated themselves). Most obtained their powers after surviving an explosion caused by a malfunction of the S.T.A.R. Labs particle accelerator on December 11, 2013. These people were exposed to the particles and dark matter that altered their genetic, chemical, or even atomic structure, giving them a variety of abilities. Their abilities seem to often relate to what energy or matter the future superhumans were directly in contact with at the time of exposure.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]On Earth Two, intending to prevent the negative effects of the particle accelerator, Dr. Harrison Wells of that universe allowed excess radiation to flow underground, with the first meta-human appearing 11 hours following.[1]
[/FONT]

Overview


[FONT=&quot]Meta-humans are represented by a wide spectrum of mutated people, with mental state, physical appearance and physiological specifics unique for each individual. The conditions they were in during the exposure to the mutative element seem to affect how the mutation changes a person. Furthermore, there are dormant meta-humans, like Henry Hewitt and Jefferson Jackson, whose powers did not resurface until the connection to Firestorm Matrix, which either re-enabled their mutative physiology, or represented a new mutation altogether.[2][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Most meta-humans seen on Earth One and Earth Two mutated after exposure to dark matter connected to the S.T.A.R. Labs particle accelerator. Some meta-humans acquired their powers through other means, not directly related to being hit by the wave of dark energy after the particle accelerator explosion. Among such meta-humans are Eliza Harmon (used Velocity serums to give herself superhuman speed, although she may have been a dormant meta-human prior to that), Valentina Vostok (used the Operation Svarog version of Firestorm Matrix to become a Soviet Firestorm) and Jake Simmons (source of mutation unknown). Through unknown means, meta-humans of Earth Nineteen and Earth Three also acquired powers. In other universes, like Earth Thirty-Eight, humans would mutate as part of an accident without any dark matter involved, like what happened with Livewire. There's a middle-ground case regarding advanced cyborgs, like Metallo: while mostly enhanced by cybernetics, Metallos were mutated on some level, surviving despite their bodies being filled with Kryptoniteenergy, and requiring the Kryptonite "heart" to function properly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is arguable whether those affected by the Mirakuru drug can be considered true meta-humans. On the one hand, their case is similar to that of Eliza Harmon, who amplified herself with the Velocity drug, receiving meta-human powers at the cost of negative effects for sanity. On the other hand, their condition is reversible, as a Mirakuru cure was created, that allowed to cure Slade Wilson and Roy Harper. However, the Flash's meta-human powers were also taken away from him when Hunter Zolomon stole his speed, turning him into a normal human once again. Additionally, Slade Wilson was affected by the Mirakuru for years, implying that he would retain his superhuman abilities if not for the cure. One way or another, Barry Allen researched the case of Cyrus Gold, a Mirakuru-affected member of the Church of Blood as part of his hunt for "the impossible", which otherwise included meta-humans.[3][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Some meta-humans consider themselves separate, or at least different enough from the regular humans to identify as something else. The prime example of such thinking would be members of Zoom's meta-human group, who ushered in the Metapocalypse upon Central City. In the speech before his followers, Zoom depicted humans as the archetypal "Other", claiming that they think that Earth One belongs just to them, and inciting the meta-humans under his command to take over this world. Characteristically of this group, Killer Frost, Black Siren, King Shark and Reverb were all shown preferring to refer to themselves with their meta-human "names", instead of their original ones. Interestingly, Hunter Zolomon himself preferred to be called by the name of the man whose identity he stole, Jay Garrick, rather than his own meta-human nickname, or especially his real name, as shown when Caitlin Snow called him "Hunter", causing Zolomon to relive a painful traumatic flashback.[4][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Meta-humans are not to be confused with magic users, like Damien Darhk or John Constantine, who receive their powers not thanks to mutation, but by manipulating primordial energies of the universe, such as Light of the Soul. However, it is possible for an individual to exhibit both magic powers and abilities related to mutated physiology, Vandal Savage being a prime example of such.[5][6][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]





Characters with other sources of mutation*





source
[FONT=&quot]Top Wiki Community[/FONT]

Arrowverse Wiki


Originally Posted by Mask&Cape
According to Arrowverse science, are people born with a meta gene and that is why some transform and others don't? Or is it just purely random?


umm the arrow verse isn't that developed on the meta gene thing . the books and the video game explanations and dc animated are however.



examples like the game DCuniverse online



And

Meta

[FONT=&quot]Meta[/FONT][FONT=&quot] refers to subjects that are beyond modern standards of reality. Such an example can be found in the term "Metahuman"; a term used to describe…[/FONT]​




  • Meta heroes gain their powers from their unique genetic heritage and are mentored by Superman.

  • "Metahuman" is a term used to describe superhumans in the DC Universe and is roughly synonymous with the way the term "Mutant" is used in the Marvel Universe and "Posthuman" in the Wildstorm and Ultimate Marvel Universes.

Metagene

[FONT=&quot]During their attempted invasion of Earth, the Dominators discovered that some humans had a "biological variant" they called the "Metagene". Scientifically defined as the genetic source of an Earth-born metahuman's "super abilities", this gene often lies dormant within an individual until a moment of extraordinary physiological stress activated it, and upon activation it would use the source of the biostress as a catalyst for "genetic change," resulting in metahuman abilities. However, examples have also arisen where individuals are born with their metagene already active or their metagene suddenly becomes active later in life with no apparent instigation.
It is possible for individuals skilled in science and biology to manipulate, dampen or modify the activities of the metagene: while the Dominators were able to devise a "Gene Bomb" able to accelerate the metagene activity to the point of cellular and physical instabilities, Earth scientists have been able to create devices that can also repress the metagene; enabling a metahuman to be incarcerated in a prison facility.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The origin of the metagene can be traced back to the alien overlord Lord Vimana of the Vimanian alien race who, over 3 million years ago, in an effort to create a race of super powered slaves for their empire, forced their worker drones to mate with humanity's ancestors Australopithecus afarensis (3 million years ago), and later Homo erectus (1.5 million years ago). While it is unknown what became of the Vimanians, the genetic potential of the metagene was discovered in Homo sapiens (500,000 - 250,000 years ago) by the White Martian race. The White Martians performed experiments on these primitive humans and changed how the metahuman phenotype was expressed by the metagene. Due to their experimentations, the White Martians altered the destiny of the human race. Whereas before evolution would have eventually made mankind into a race of superhumans similar to the Daxamites and Kryptonians, now only a select few humans would be able to develop metahuman powers. As punishment for this, the group of renegades known as the Hyperclan was exiled to the Still Zone, a version of the Phantom Zone.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In modern day, in response to the witnessed power that metahumans exhibited in the battlefield during World War II, various countries have started up "Metahuman Programs" with the aim to create metahuman soldiers or weapons through the manipulation of the metagene to use for various purposes.
Focusing on the United States of America, their Metahuman Program began with the development of serums and chemical science in an effort to chemically enhance subjects beyond typical human levels (Deathstroke's origins stem from these proceedures). The nation's focus would later move on to the usage of atomic power and alien technology to enhance their subjects; one infamous instance of this focus was the Atom Project, wherein the military fused a subject with atomic energy before containing them within an nigh-indestructible shell of alien alloy (Captain Atom and Major Force originate from the Atom Project). Since the Lex Luthor Presidency, the United States' metahuman programs have turned to nanotechnology to create enhanced robotic soldiers as a "defense against the threat of metahuman attack". This resulted in the creation of the OMAC Project.[/FONT]


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Well, guess this means he'll probably just be wasted as a villain of the week. Kadabra debatably put Wally West through more hell than any other villain in the comics, I'd hate to see him get treated as a minor villain just because he isn't a speedster. Kadabra is a villain that should be a season big bad, not a one off or occasional guest appearance.
 
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Okay but

Season 1, episode 3.

Caitlin: "He[Ronnie] often said we were like fire and ice"

That was pretty amazing foreshadowing there, props to the script writers dang.

Literally anyone who knew the comics characters knew that these were the alter egos of Killer Frost and Firestorm, it's not like these were original characters and they hinted at the dynamics years in advance. When that episode aired literally everyone in the room I was in rolled their eyes and said "holy COW that was obvious." Absolute cringe-worthy line that does not sound natural at ALL aside from the blatant foreshadowing.
 
Finally caught up on this show.

I have to say, I'm enjoying S3 A LOT more than S2. One thing that definitely helps Flash that Arrow suffered from is that they're smart enough to keep their good actors around. And fill the show with more good actions. Tom Felton has been a nice addition, and a fun more complex character. Cavanagh hamming it up is always enjoyable, and Savitar, while not making an entrance quite as badass as Zoom's was, has turned out to be a much more compelling mystery and more consistent presence than Zoom was last season.

Overall, this season feels more focused then S2 was. It still isn't quite reaching the heights of S1, but honestly they may be hard to hit again. Cavanaugh's RF/Wells was a wonderfully complex villain, and I don't think they'll be able to set one up quite that well again.
 
With Abra being introduced later this season and the actor that they got for him, I fear that we may get yet another speedster villain for next season. The guy playing abra doesn't look like someone who could be the big bad for a season.

If they don't go down the evil speedster route for Season 4, the only credible threat that I could think of that could be used for next season would be the rogues banding together against the Flash, with possibly Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, or Trickster leading them.
 
Interesting that Abra, a villain of Wally in the comics is being used for Barry.

He was initially created as a Barry Allen villain though, though his most memorable moments were definitely during Wally's era. Not the first villain they've used for Barry on the show that's more associated with Wally though, since Zolomon/Zoom was last seasons big bad (they really should've just called last seasons villain Edward Clariss/Rival though, had zilch in common with comics Zoom outside of the name). Savitar is also a Wally West villain.
 
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He was a Barry villain for literally decades before he became a Wally villain...

The writers crafted better stories with Wally than Barry! Abra went out of his way to make Wallys life complex and difficult to the point Abra went from a b-lister villain in The Rogue Gallery to an A-list in both Flash and Justice League.
 
They've been stealing stuff from Wally's run as Flash for the show basically since season 1. Hunter Zolomon is the most obvious example, though.
 
I just finished binging Fringe, and while I was watching, I realized that there was something about the (incredible) production design/sets that really reminded me of the Flash, particularly S.T.A.R. labs (beyond both being filmed in Vancouver obviously).

I was thus very happy to discover that the production designer for Fringe also served as the production designer for the pilot of the Flash.

I love Fringe. Everything on that show was awesome.

Very entering bit of information there. Thanks:cwink:
 
the nazi guy one second his name is baron Von Kriegernand he's listed there as other source of mutation in the wikia


from the arrow verse or (what we call the flarrow verse) wikia

umm the arrow verse isn't that developed on the meta gene thing . the books and the video game explanations and dc animated are however.

Isn't that wikia site based entirely on fan input? Anything other than information stated on screen isn't canon so there would be a lot of fan fiction in there to fill in the blanks.

I was really only curious about metahumans in regards to the mythology of these shows. I haven't got the concentration for the comics universe take on it. ;)
 
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The writer's and producers are making things far too awkward and messy by having too many people on the Star Labs team, and too many of those who don't do anything of note.

Arrow has the same problem but at least have better developed the new recruits characters.

And Supergirl stories focus too much on the DEO.

All three of these shows is missing the opportunity to showcase more super villains, especially those not so well known, by having a main cast that is simply too large. Barry and Oliver have such a large support team that it should make it easier to defeat their respective villains and yet the fact that they can't brings into question the need for such a large team.

Ad other than Alex, none of the human DEO agents ever do anything.

I still enjoy the three shows, but I'm hoping that some chances are coming next season. Cut down the main cast, have the heroes work alone more often, give their sidekicks solo adventures and the occasional team up with Flash/Green Arrow and bring in more villains. No more evil speedsters on The Flash for a few years. Put Green Arrow up against a few metahumans. Shorter story arcs, especially on the Flash.
 
Isn't that wikia site based entirely on fan input? Anything other than information stated on screen isn't canon so there would be a lot of fan fiction in there to fill in the blanks.

if I remember right, I think I used the same place with one of my first conversation's with you and few others that I didn't see that often on here inthe forum til recently this year . Anyway I used it to explain the whole "time Remanent" thing that was still baffling people in the fan base. til this season and man oh man, did I really to explain that mess from last season.

cause the writers view is way different from the fan bases when explaining it.


but that wikia 's explanation was from the people from the show them selves. So where the flash is concerned and super girl (that has wikia of it's own, but also a bio's on the flarrow verse) wikia too . the writers of the (show's some of them )are affiliated with this wikia .



there certain wikia's that fan done and done very well. but there are others that owned by video game publishers and other inthis case where certain tv shows like the cw ones where falsh and super girl etc have acces to some of the writers where things need to be explained and they have other source's .
I was really only curious about metahumans in regards to the mythology of these shows. I haven't got the concentration for the comics universe take on it. ;)
the part I high lite red was the only reason I showed this. I also wanted to put up the DCAU (where Batamn and super serie lead into the JLU and batman beyound serise )version. which showed a difference in how thing's went there.


while the video game version of DCUO is the closest to the comic's but there are difference there too . that's also part of the multiverse according to them .
 
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I usually just try to prove other people´s theories but this one is my own ...

savitar could be flashpoint harrison wells from earth-1

there was that plot leak some time ago .... it stated many stuff, and among them was that the traitor was harry because of jesse´s death

they have failed before, so mayne that part could be true but they have mistaken harry for harrison wells ...

imagine this :

in flashpoint wally and jesse fall in love ...

... jesse dies in the crossfire of him being kid flash ...

... her father wants vengeance so becomes savitar ...

... he gets defeated and trapped in the speed force which preserves him after flashpoint ends like it preserved eobard

savitar is a wally villain in the comics and not a barry one so this adds up to that
 
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