The Flash The Flash Season 1, Episode 18 "All-Star Team Up" General Discussion

[Frodo]

No. The argument was when does Eddies role in Iris's life outweigh her fathers. The answer when he marries her.

The whole do they have a right to keep secrets from her? Yes they do. Everyone has a right to keep a secret. Is it right? No probably not. Her fathers misplaced protection of his little girl is wrong. She is an adult and no matter how he feels is not her little girl anymore. She though should stand up to him and make him see that. Stop calling him daddy and flashing a smile and running to him when she has a breakup and act like a woman. She is being a moo though. Picking on Eddie and threatening him. She should know her father is in on it.

The argument is about whether Iris should know the truth or not. Eddie says yes. Joe says no. Eddie asks when does the role in Iris's life outweigh her fathers. Joe says when he marries her. The fact that Joe thinks that A) Being her father gives him the right to keep secrets from her and thus doesn't give the boyfriend the right of telling her , and B) Thinks that once Eddie marries her has can outweigh her Father's judgment and role, and C) Think that their role gives them any right to determine what Iris knows or not , is sexist. It assumes both men in one way or another whether they are her boyfriend, husband or father have the right to determine what she knows because of the role they serve in her life. By implication , if Eddie is her husband, he has the right to tell her the truth and determine what she does and doesn't know. I don't see where that's not the case given what Joe said, regardless of what motivations the writers intended to get across in the scene.

Iris can flash a smile, call him daddy , or call him Joe. That really doesn't matter and its not enough to justify Joe's attitude. She's being lied to and she knows it. Joe being her father and having the right to keep it from her because Eddie is not her husband doesn't make it. It doesn't matter if Joe's got this. She doesn't know it because she's being lied to, that's the point.

 

[universeman]

DC taking notes from Marvel: Science Bros. will always be entertaining. Hope we get a lot of that between Stein and Palmer in the Spin-Off.

You just giving me a great idea have Palmer and Stein in the Spin-Off

Spoiler

create this guy

 

[Human Torch]

I think the thing to remember is it's incumbent on a husband to tell his wife the truth (I E don't keep things from her). Now, it's not Eddie's secret to tell and since he's not married to her, Joe's wishes on the matter need to be taken into account as her father. I mean, I guess it seems "old fashioned" to some, but the old "As long as you live under my roof..." type thing applies. Eddie has no obligation to tell a confidence to Iris against her fathers will,if he's not gonna put a ring on it.t:

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Good episode ( Cisco, Palmer, Felicity ) save for the Iris stuff. The character is more and more annoying, does the writers don't like her or what ?
The whole when people are in love they tell each other everything is so lame, is this kindergarten ? Ok Eddy is hidden something, she felt it, could be cop related confidential matters but noooo the poor girl HAVE to know because people in love tell everything /thousand-face-palm-of-Jean-Luc Picard.
Edit : and if you don't tell me I will broke up with you, boo boo, drama queen.

 

[Lantern Venom]

The argument is about whether Iris should know the truth or not. Eddie says yes. Joe says no. Eddie asks when does the role in Iris's life outweigh her fathers. Joe says when he marries her. The fact that Joe thinks that A) Being her father gives him the right to keep secrets from her and thus doesn't give the boyfriend the right of telling her , and B) Thinks that once Eddie marries her has can outweigh her Father's judgment and role, and C) Think that their role gives them any right to determine what Iris knows or not , is sexist. It assumes both men in one way or another whether they are her boyfriend, husband or father have the right to determine what she knows because of the role they serve in her life. .

I never once got the impression that Joe was being gender-specific. As a parent, Joe would naturally be protective of his child. Add the dimension of being a cop, which makes him even more inclined to protection, it makes even more sense that he would be wary of opening up a world of super-powered threats to his civilian daughter.

If the sexes were reversed, the conversation still works. If it were Detective Josephine West pondering the safety of her photojournalist son Igor, it wouldn't be out of place for her to say, "Your vote doesn't outweigh mine until you're his spouse, Edwina."

For now, I'm giving Joe the benefit of the doubt. Future dialogue might shed some more light on this and result in a change of opinion.

 

[ThePreface]

Sexist? Really? Not worthy of a response. People keep secrets for one reason or another. Joe's being a parent. Simple as that. He has the right to keep a secret just as Iris has the right to be pissed off at him, Eddie, and Barry. Stop overthinking it folks.

 

[Tempest]

Good episode ( Cisco, Palmer, Felicity ) save for the Iris stuff. The character is more and more annoying, does the writers don't like her or what ?
The whole when people are in love they tell each other everything is so lame, is this kindergarten ? Ok Eddy is hidden something, she felt it, could be cop related confidential matters but noooo the poor girl HAVE to know because people in love tell everything /thousand-face-palm-of-Jean-Luc Picard.
Edit : and if you don't tell me I will broke up with you, boo boo, drama queen.

What makes this whole thing really obnoxious is that she was all about Teh Secruds in the first few episodes, because she couldn't let her dad know about her relationship with his partner. That kind of secret is apparently just dandy.

As for whether or not she should know, of course she should know. She's not really any safer by not knowing things. In fact, one could view it as that she'll get curious, start looking into things on her own, and get herself injured or killed. I don't understand why Joe is so forceful about this; she can handle herself. She shot someone, for crying out loud.

 

[DOBSON10]

Incredibly cheesy episode. Putting Ray, Felicity and Sisco in the same room is an overload of bad jokes, bad acting and is just really annoying. Sisco almost single handedly ruins this show for me, everytime he opens his mouth I almost consider turning the show off.

And I will never understand how they sat in an audition room, looked at Danielle Panabaker and Candice Patton and decided it was a good decision for Candice to be Iris. It literally makes no sense to me at all. She's a bad actress, who has literally no chemistry what so ever with Grant Gustin (or anyone else on the show for that matter). Did they not screen test Panabaker and Patton with Gustin before making that call? Because after about 10 seconds you can see Panabaker has much, much, much better chemistry with Grant and Candice has none. Panabaker is a much better actress, looks more like the traditional Iris West character, has better chemistry with the lead actor and can play literally any role better than Patton. Makes no sense.

All that being said, save for the incredibly annoying Sisco and the completely miscast/out of place Patton, the show is pretty good otherwise. Gustin has really grown on me as Barry and the main storyline has been fairly interesting. Some of the villains of the week have been underwhelming but the show's special effects have been surprisingly good, Captain Cold and Heat Wave have been good despite being alittle over the top, Grodd looks like it could be interesting and the Reverse-Flash storyline has been mostly solid.

 

[Hunter Rider]

On one hand, I kind of agree. On the other, from her point of view, it's one thing to take that approach with your kids, it's another to take it with your significant other.

A lot of people that work in a job where they see the worst of humanity prefer to keep their family life separate from it as it's a place of refuge.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

What makes this whole thing really obnoxious is that she was all about Teh Secruds in the first few episodes, because she couldn't let her dad know about her relationship with his partner. That kind of secret is apparently just dandy.

As for whether or not she should know, of course she should know. She's not really any safer by not knowing things. In fact, one could view it as that she'll get curious, start looking into things on her own, and get herself injured or killed. I don't understand why Joe is so forceful about this; she can handle herself. She shot someone, for crying out loud.

Exactly.
She is not a little girl anymore. The writers don't help either with her characterization.
Well, I may be too old for this level of teen drama when applied to young adults.
"If you don't tell me everything I will broke up with you"....by Cthulhu tentacles, kill me now !

 

[Tempest]

Exactly.
She is not a little girl anymore. The writers don't help either with her characterization.
Well, I may be too old for this level of teen drama when applied to young adults.
"If you don't tell me everything I will broke up with you"....by Cthulhu tentacles, kill me now !

The issue with Iris's character is two-fold.

The writers don't give her anything interesting to do. She only has action when it's at the behest of a male counterpart. Aside from her blog, she has had very little agency in the show. There is nothing that she does that doesn't somehow revolve around her two love interests. And the way the writers choose to portray her is unflattering; she is more like a sixteen-year-old, rather than a woman in her early twenties.

The other problem is how the other characters treat her. She's like a treasure, meant to be protected from all the evil. It feels completely unnatural, and it's kind of sickening.

When she's given some weightier material, Candice delivers. If the writers would focus more on allowing her to be a character, and let her be as natural as all the other characters, instead of trying to force her into being Barry's love interest, the show would be so much better.

 

[universeman]

Incredibly cheesy episode. Putting Ray, Felicity and Sisco in the same room is an overload of bad jokes, bad acting and is just really annoying. Sisco almost single handedly ruins this show for me, everytime he opens his mouth I almost consider turning the show off.

And I will never understand how they sat in an audition room, looked at Danielle Panabaker and Candice Patton and decided it was a good decision for Candice to be Iris. It literally makes no sense to me at all. She's a bad actress, who has literally no chemistry what so ever with Grant Gustin (or anyone else on the show for that matter). Did they not screen test Panabaker and Patton with Gustin before making that call? Because after about 10 seconds you can see Panabaker has much, much, much better chemistry with Grant and Candice has none. Panabaker is a much better actress, looks more like the traditional Iris West character, has better chemistry with the lead actor and can play literally any role better than Patton. Makes no sense.

All that being said, save for the incredibly annoying Sisco and the completely miscast/out of place Patton, the show is pretty good otherwise. Gustin has really grown on me as Barry and the main storyline has been fairly interesting. Some of the villains of the week have been underwhelming but the show's special effects have been surprisingly good, Captain Cold and Heat Wave have been good despite being alittle over the top, Grodd looks like it could be interesting and the Reverse-Flash storyline has been mostly solid.

To answer your question about why they didn't chose Danielle as Iris she said she never did audition for Iris she only wanted to audition for Caitlin. But I agree with you about Grant/Danielle having more chemistry I love Barry/Caitlin's storyline along with Reverse Flash storyline. It seems [BLACKOUT]we will be getting some more of that chemistry and Tom playing Reverse Flash in the next episode t: Snowbarry/Reverse Flash being awesome! [/BLACKOUT] Caitlin, Barry, and Reverse Flash are my top 3 favorites.

 

[Web-Head]

The first episode so far that I didn't really enjoy. There was just something about it that I found somewhat boring.

 

[BestGirl]

I think the thing to remember is it's incumbent on a husband to tell his wife the truth (I E don't keep things from her). Now, it's not Eddie's secret to tell and since he's not married to her, Joe's wishes on the matter need to be taken into account as her father.

It's not Joe's secret, either. It's Barry's.

I mean, I guess it seems "old fashioned" to some, but the old "As long as you live under my roof..." type thing applies. Eddie has no obligation to tell a confidence to Iris against her fathers will,if he's not gonna put a ring on it.t:

Iris doesn't live under her father's roof anymore. She lives with Eddie. He's already pretty much married to her in all but name.

 

[Human Torch]

It's not Joe's secret, either. It's Barry's.



Iris doesn't live under her father's roof anymore. She lives with Eddie. He's already pretty much married to her in all but name.

But Barry is agreeing with Joe to keep it a secret from her.


Actually she does live with Joe again, which makes it even more difficult to give Eddie an excuse to tell her.

 

[Jase]

Not as fun as the last episode with the Trickster but still alright nonetheless. Great to see the dynamics of different relationships.

 

[Batmannerism]

A solid episode. Not the best villain and Ray's suit is a little too Iron-Man ish for my taste - I think they need to have a completely different design aesthetic (although i admit that's tough for an armoured suit).

Other than that pretty entertaining, although you have to feel sorry for Eddie, man Iris needs to get over herself. Barry should just man up and tell her.

The writers need to do some work to make Iris a more sympathetic character, as she's borderline annoying at the moment.

On the other hand, Routh gets better as Ray Palmer with every appearance.

 

[Seb]

But Barry is agreeing with Joe to keep it a secret from her.


Actually she does live with Joe again, which makes it even more difficult to give Eddie an excuse to tell her.

Sure, she's back with her Dad, but that was only after Joe forced Eddie to keep the secret. Generally speaking, Joe is incredibly over-protective and domineering. It's partially the other characters' failings for not standing up to him. Barry's the only one that really pushes back against it (except Wells, who just ignores it and frankly does the same thing, though it's more understandable in him since he's a villain). Apart from staying together against Joe's wishes, Iris and Eddie tend to back down whenever Joe gets it in his mind to make them do something. He even managed to force Cisco into his corner when he wanted to.

I don't really mind it as a character trait/flaw. It's been reasonably consistent and so I get it. I'll also give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the 'when you're her husband' line was just a pithy one-liner, and Joe would in truth still be the over-bearing father figure he always has been regardless of Iris' marital status.

NOTE: It wasn't Barry's decision not to tell Iris, it was a promise that Joe forced him to make. Another case of Joe being controlling.

 

[godisawesome]

Anybody remember when Iris was supposed to be working on her criminal profiling degree and that was supposed to be her spot in the cast? I'm thinking that they had a full plan for her being the person who provides the character exposition, then, for whatever reason, they dropped that angle and scrambled to figure out what to do with her and fell into old, tired cliches.

 

[Lilbaz]

The argument is about whether Iris should know the truth or not. Eddie says yes. Joe says no. Eddie asks when does the role in Iris's life outweigh her fathers. Joe says when he marries her. The fact that Joe thinks that A) Being her father gives him the right to keep secrets from her and thus doesn't give the boyfriend the right of telling her , and B) Thinks that once Eddie marries her has can outweigh her Father's judgment and role, and C) Think that their role gives them any right to determine what Iris knows or not , is sexist. It assumes both men in one way or another whether they are her boyfriend, husband or father have the right to determine what she knows because of the role they serve in her life. By implication , if Eddie is her husband, he has the right to tell her the truth and determine what she does and doesn't know. I don't see where that's not the case given what Joe said, regardless of what motivations the writers intended to get across in the scene.

Iris can flash a smile, call him daddy , or call him Joe. That really doesn't matter and its not enough to justify Joe's attitude. She's being lied to and she knows it. Joe being her father and having the right to keep it from her because Eddie is not her husband doesn't make it. It doesn't matter if Joe's got this. She doesn't know it because she's being lied to, that's the point.

I guess it was sexist that Laurel didn't tell her dad that her sister was dead.

 

[haephestus]

Anybody remember when Iris was supposed to be working on her criminal profiling degree and that was supposed to be her spot in the cast?

Lol. No. But, that does sound interesting. Iris could have been part of Team Flash and helped point out character's weaknesses, strengths, likely plans of attack, likely hiding places, known associates, etc.

I guess Joe and Eddie kind of fill that role, although just based off police records. Iris could be the one who really puts the information together, especially for meta humans with no police records, like the Bug Eyed Bandit. Iris could have been the one to connect the dots about the past employment of the victims, determine who the killer was, her motivation, etc.

If Iris moves into exclusively covering crime as a journalist, then she could potentially, eventually still perform that role. Fingers crossed!

 

[Dark Raven]

I thought a body was meant to be discovered. Where was Det Lance? I thought he was meant to be teaming up with Joe in this episode while Barry was meant to team up with a few more heroes than just Ray.

 

[Snow Queen]

Well that was the first episode I outright disliked.

 

[Tempest]

I guess it was sexist that Laurel didn't tell her dad that her sister was dead.

No.

Here's why; it's not about one gender keeping a secret from the opposite gender.

It's all about the reasons behind it. Iris is viewed as too fragile, too delicate, and in desperate need of masculine protection from the evils of the world. Joe has decided for Iris that she isn't capable of handling the truth, or of being a useful ally or friend to Barry. Even though he apparently taught the kids how to box (and Iris was better at it than Barry), and even though she apparently knows how to fire a weapon, Joe feels that he needs to take away her agency in this matter.

Now, if he had said that he was concerned that since she might be willing to give away Barry's secret, or that since she's a reporter, that she might prove to be a danger to Barry or the others, it would at least sound better.

 

[dude stannis]

As a fan of villains making themed puns I loved this episode. Since Arnold showed up on Two and A Half Men, hopefully he'll show up on Flash as Victor Fries when they get around to Killer Frost.

I must admit I normally like Iris, however this episode did her an absolute disservice. Imagine your acquaintance is dating Robert Downey Jr and he invites you to the most exclusive restaurant in the city, and you act like a damn fool to your significant other, and ruin dinner for everyone. Then later you find out your SO, is stressed from the rigour of being a police officer and then you threaten to dump them for that? Sickening behaviour.

I loved, loved, loved Ray and Felicity as a happy, healthy adult couple, a shame they had to crap all over that the very next night.

Routh continues to be great as Ray Palmer. When it comes time for shrinking ATOM, I really hope he offandedly mentions he sold the old suit to his buddy Ted. Love "science bros" with Cisco, it's a shame he didn't get a meaty one on one scene with Wells.