The Flash The Flash Season 1 Episode 23: "Fast Enough"

[afan]

Props to this show's creative team for tackling alternate timelines and parallel worlds/universes. It's a daunting task to successfully and comprehensively pull off in a weekly series.

 

[Dark Raven]

So guys, just went back and rewatched the speedforce scenes, there was one really confusing shot. It looks like it's Barry talking to his dad in prison through the prison phone, but if you look closely, Barry's wearing handcuffs. I took a screenshot, not sure how to post it, but it's happening when Wells is explaining what's happening. Any ideas?

Also got a screenshot of, we think, Killer Frost. She has blonde hair, blue lips and whited out eyes but it certainly looks like Caitlyn. If you want I'll post that as well.

Maybe in one timeline, older Barry chooses to spare his dad from prison by moving him from the crime scene and surrenders himself up as his mom's murderer instead. That could be how he ends up behind bars.

 

[Kar]

What an amazing finale. I at first thought it was moving slow but it was just building up for thr ending and man...great episode. No complaints, other than with Eddie doing what he did...well I'm pretty sure you've all already discussed it.

I just love how the new DCTVU is not afraid to finale be a superhero show and tackle parallel universes and time travel but make it all work and stay connected.

 

[zenith16]

Is there a reason Barry punched the Time Sphere? Was it an accident or did he not want Eobard to go back in time?

yeah there is as I said here post #517 page 21

Because he wasn't willing to allow Thawne to just walk away free after everything that he's done.

Plus, there's no way that Barry could guarantee that Thawne wouldn't pull some time traveling stint again later on that could ruin everyone's lives once more.

truth be told I think it was the fact that his mom died in his arms & it made barry even madder at Thawne & since he let the version of Thawne that killed her in the house get away, cause he needed to have his good bye (his final good bye supposedly) with his mom. The only way he'll be satisfied is to punch Thawne where Thawne would still around where he can punch him cause he's ticked off and that was back at star labs.

He just really needed to hit Thawne & since barry couldn't save(twice) his mom there's still the issue of his dad in jail. his mom alive would mea his dad wouldn't be in jail. but that failed so.....

 

[Golgo-13]

I'm very curious as to why future Flash told our Barry to stay put. Barry saving his mom would have reverted the timeline back to it's original state.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

I think Eddie getting sucked in that blackhole is going to have reprecauctions. Maybe he will be revived somehow and might get powers. I hope they don't go this route and that he is actually dead.

 

[Golgo-13]

Since RF was never born, shouldn't that change the current timeline in that Barry's mom shouls still be alive…?

 

[The Shape]

I'm very curious as to why future Flash told our Barry to stay put. Barry saving his mom would have reverted the timeline back to it's original state.

No, once this new timeline had been created (RF killing Barry's mom), it can't be erased or undone. Barry going back and succeeding in saving his mom would have changed the existing timeline further with Flashpoint-level ramifications; ie - not good.

Future Flash telling Barry to stand back and let it happen means that this future Flash (who would clearly have a better understanding of the effects or time travel and universe-altering events) knew that if Barry did save his mom, it would **** a whole lot of **** up for that timeline. It's possible that the future Flash knew this from experience, because he had tried to do the same thing that resulted in a Flashpoint-esque event.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Since RF was never born, shouldn't that change the current timeline in that Barry's mom shouls still be alive…?

Yes if you use the one time-line concept, no if you use the multi verse concept ( new time-line created with each time jump ).
My take on it.

 

[The Shape]

Yes if you use the one time-line concept, no if you use the multi verse concept ( new time-line created with each time jump ).
My take on it.

Correct.

 

[zenith16]

I'm very curious as to why future Flash told our Barry to stay put. Barry saving his mom would have reverted the timeline back to it's original state.

As the other's said he already went through flash point & was correcting his own time line(history) for his own present & didn't want the Barry we're seeing to ruin his own present with a flash point problem of fixing reality through time travel . it's messy enough as it is his mom death is a Fixed point in time set the course for Barry to be come a CSI become the hero flash with out her death he'd never make the chose to become the flash & it'll send all the other hero's he's supposed to meet off course as well cause his presence isn't there to help deal other problem that will effect the world present day & future wise .

also just cause you alter events in the past it doesn't mean that reality course history is destroyed. it just means it's in accessible for it to happen your line of sight current events which what makes it become a alternate reality. most of those alternate reality's are products of chose's we make when the word "time line" is used it's just the history of the course a reality is headed or take place of that reality.


but I think I may be making this further complected for you.

 

[Mister J]

I miss this show already. ****, that finale was good.

 

[DoomGuy91]

Future Barry is from a world in which he became the Flash, even with his mother alive (therefore never living with Joe and Iris). So I find it odd, that he didn't want our Barry to save his mother.

 

[zenith16]

Future Barry is from a world in which he became the Flash, even with his mother alive (therefore never living with Joe and Iris). So I find it odd, that he didn't want our Barry to save his mother.

cause he 's the one that experienced flash point & came back the second time to set it all right. so he would become the flash. His mom death is a fixed/ focal point to allow for that. she doesn't die he won't be motivated to become the flash.


the world is a terrible place cause of flash point. Bruce wayne doesn't live to be batman who know's what's happened with Oliver (with the Barry We're fallowing case) as Green arrow, wonder woman aqua man are creating super human war on each other over their twisted love affair. i which his mom still dies wit ht rest of the world .

Barry may not get what he wants but the world wouldn't be better off place , if he does get what he wants ether. Immediate gratification isn't the best thing over all in this case.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

I miss this show already. ****, that finale was good.

I feel you. It's back October-ish right? Only a four month wait. Not too bad.

 

[BestGirl]

If you knew there was a chance of saving your mother would you not attempt to do it?

I think that this being a young and inexperienced Barry, made the move without truly knowing the repercussions.

If the possible price of saving my mother was possibly destroying the world, no I would not, especially if my present was pretty decent. And the argument that Barry is young and learning is growing trite. I have yet to see any growth from him at all.

Plus, he might rationalize it as setting history to a more corrected course with his mom alive.

They're also trusting Thawne/Wells' plan would ensure the world wouldn't be destroyed by a singularity. Otherwise he wouldn't have a future to return to.

Well yeah, but who says that he won't screw up the future and past even more if he's allowed to go free?

I never understood this idea of fans expecting heroes in superhero shows to be perfect and make sound decisions at all times. Where exactly is the conflict when characters do the right thing at all times?

You know what happens when you get that? One boring *** show that no one would watch.

Barry is young and inexperienced and is still early on in his career as Flash that it is inevitable he will make mistakes. It's seeing the progression and growth of the character as the seasons go by that makes it worth watching.

And frankly, let's say he went with the logical approach and didn't do it...what next? We get a one hour finale of them going to the beach? BBQ?

It's TV. Relax.

I would've preferred it if they hadn't've been aware that there was a possibility a singularity might occur. At least that would've made Barry's actions more understandable, and the singularity still could've happened. Or Barry could've wrestled with his conscience, decided against saving his mom, and Thawne could've escaped his cell somehow and attacked Barry, leading to Eddie shooting himself, etc. The whole plot didn't have to change, just certain elements of it.

 

[Nathan]

I would've preferred it if they hadn't've been aware that there was a possibility a singularity might occur. At least that would've made Barry's actions more understandable, and the singularity still could've happened. Or Barry could've wrestled with his conscience, decided against saving his mom, and Thawne could've escaped his cell somehow and attacked Barry, leading to Eddie shooting himself, etc. The whole plot didn't have to change, just certain elements of it.

Agreed. Loved the Finale, but it would have definitely worked better had they not known about the possibility of a singularity wiping out earth.

 

[DoomGuy91]

cause he 's the one that experienced flash point & came back the second time to set it all right. so he would become the flash. His mom death is a fixed/ focal point to allow for that. she doesn't die he won't be motivated to become the flash.

First off....she never died in the original timeline, the one in which Barry became the Flash and the real Wells invented the particle accelerator (at a later date). So its not her dying that motivated the original timeline Barry to become the Flash. Proof that she never died is that the original Wells lived and and was never killed by a time traveling Thawne (since the original past did not have Thawne going back in time and screwing things up).

2nd, you are assuming that Future Barry witnessed some kind of flashpoint, however the Arrowverse is not the same thing as the comic world, for all we know there will never be a flashpoint like event in the tv world.

 

[Quinnsanity]

I'm very curious as to why future Flash told our Barry to stay put. Barry saving his mom would have reverted the timeline back to it's original state.

No, once this new timeline had been created (RF killing Barry's mom), it can't be erased or undone. Barry going back and succeeding in saving his mom would have changed the existing timeline further with Flashpoint-level ramifications; ie - not good.

Future Flash telling Barry to stand back and let it happen means that this future Flash (who would clearly have a better understanding of the effects or time travel and universe-altering events) knew that if Barry did save his mom, it would **** a whole lot of **** up for that timeline. It's possible that the future Flash knew this from experience, because he had tried to do the same thing that resulted in a Flashpoint-esque event.

I realized something upon yet another rewatch. How did future Barry—the one with the white on his suit—know what present Barry—the one without white—was going to do? Ostensibly, he returned to the past to prevent the Reverse Flash from killing HIM, he would have no way of knowing that RF was going to kill Nora because in his timeline Nora never died. He's already well outside of the house with his past self when Thawne kills Nora, so he couldn't have seen it. Even if he were to go back and see Nora's dead body, it would have to happen after his interaction with present Barry. So if we are to believe that the Barry we saw in the Allen house, the one with the white suit, really did come from the "original" timeline, one in which the past was never changed and he grew up with both Henry and Nora Allen as living and non-incarcerated parents, he couldn't have specifically known what present Barry was going to do.

The only way future Barry could have known what present Barry was going to do was if he had already done it himself. If that's the case, it means that the future Barry we've seen, the one in the white suit, can't come from some utopian timeline in which both of his parents lived and he didn't become the Flash until 2020. He had to have lived through the same timeline as present Barry. I need some time to process quite what that means, but at the very least, it means we're looking at least five distinct timelines:

1. The one Barry leaves during Weather Wizard's tidal wave
2. The one Reverse Flash was born in, in which the Flash was created in 2020.
3. Future Barry's timeline, one in which he presumably went back and saved Nora (a necessity so he'd know to tell present Barry not to).
4. A Flashpoint timeline that comes after Barry saves Nora, one so horrible Barry would tell his present self not to let it happen.
5. Our present Barry's timeline, in which he sees future Barry at his mother's house.

This is all before we consider Jay Garrick. My brain hurts.

 

[Dark Raven]

But what if the Future Flash with the white on his symbol in the season finale isn't the same one we've been seeing all season? So maybe the one from the pilot and afterwards was from the original timeline and didn't know what Reverse Flash was going to do. But what if the Future Flash in the finale is a different Flash from another timeline who has taken his place and gone back to save young Barry and warns off Season 1 Barry?

So it would be like the Barry who replaced the previous Barry when he went back a day after the tidal wave and has been living in his place instead for the remainder of the season. That is, if he has replaced him at all, or if there isn't a different timeline that now exists alongside what we've been seeing since then.

 

[The Shape]

I realized something upon yet another rewatch. How did future Barry—the one with the white on his suit—know what present Barry—the one without white—was going to do? Ostensibly, he returned to the past to prevent the Reverse Flash from killing HIM, he would have no way of knowing that RF was going to kill Nora because in his timeline Nora never died. He's already well outside of the house with his past self when Thawne kills Nora, so he couldn't have seen it. Even if he were to go back and see Nora's dead body, it would have to happen after his interaction with present Barry. So if we are to believe that the Barry we saw in the Allen house, the one with the white suit, really did come from the "original" timeline, one in which the past was never changed and he grew up with both Henry and Nora Allen as living and non-incarcerated parents, he couldn't have specifically known what present Barry was going to do.

The only way future Barry could have known what present Barry was going to do was if he had already done it himself. If that's the case, it means that the future Barry we've seen, the one in the white suit, can't come from some utopian timeline in which both of his parents lived and he didn't become the Flash until 2020. He had to have lived through the same timeline as present Barry. I need some time to process quite what that means, but at the very least, it means we're looking at least five distinct timelines:

1. The one Barry leaves during Weather Wizard's tidal wave
2. The one Reverse Flash was born in, in which the Flash was created in 2020.
3. Future Barry's timeline, one in which he presumably went back and saved Nora (a necessity so he'd know to tell present Barry not to).
4. A Flashpoint timeline that comes after Barry saves Nora, one so horrible Barry would tell his present self not to let it happen.
5. Our present Barry's timeline, in which he sees future Barry at his mother's house.

This is all before we consider Jay Garrick. My brain hurts.

Future Barry, upon seeing what he clearly recognized as a past version of himself, would know that the only reason this past version of himself appeared in that moment was with the purpose of naively changing something. It doesn't really matter what that purpose was, whether it was to save Nora's life, kill the Reverse Flash, or something else all together. It makes sense that an experienced Flash with knowledge of how certain events could alter timelines would tell that past version of himself to stand back, out of fear that he would **** something up further.

 

[haephestus]

But what if the Future Flash with the white on his symbol in the season finale isn't the same one we've been seeing all season? So maybe the one from the pilot and afterwards was from the original timeline and didn't know what Reverse Flash was going to do. But what if the Future Flash in the finale is a different Flash from another timeline who has taken his place and gone back to save young Barry and warns off Season 1 Barry?

That sounds about right to me.

In the earlier flashbacks, we had young Barry and future Flash. I think *that* future Flash was the future Barry from the original timeline where Nora was not killed (because Eobard never travelled back in time) and it sounds as though everything was pretty gosh darn great until Eobard travelled back in time and became The Flash's arch nemesis.

In the most recent flashbacks, we had young Barry, present-day Flash and future Flash. I think *that* future Flash was the future Barry from the "current" timeline where Nora was killed and knew, for whatever reason, that Nora's death was necessary to his future. Alternatively, it was a future Flash who had experienced a "flashpoint" like event, that is, he had previously travelled back in time, saved Nora, but that ended up having a disasterous impact on his own future.

For example, Nora, Henry and Barry still would have been "attacked" by unknown forces that evening. Maybe Nora or Henry end up suffering psychologically because of that. Maybe one of them ends up in a mental institute because nobody believes their tale of a lightning based attempted murderer. Maybe they divorce. Maybe the attack forces Nora to become paranoid and afraid to leave the house or to allow Barry to leave the house. Eobard's attack, even if it didn't result in the death of Nora or Barry could still have a huge impact on Barry's family and upbringing which could result in him not becoming The Flash.

As a further alternative, maybe that future Flash had saved Nora and helped Eobard return home. Eobard returns to his own time, but then uses his newly acquired knowledge about Barry Allen and his friends to wreak even more havok with the timeline and to cause even more pain and suffering.

The only way to restore the truly "original" timeline would be for The Flash to prevent Eobard from ever travelling back in time to when Barry was younger, but that could end up creating its own paradox.

 

[Dark Raven]

I was just thinking that the Flash forums require much more careful reading and thinking compared to any other forum on the Hype.

 

[Human Torch]

I was just thinking that the Flash forums require much more careful reading and thinking compared to any other forum on the Hype.

And an aspirin.

 

[vantheman77]

Let Flash deal with multiple timelines while Legends focus on one timeline.