The Flash The Flash season 2 episode 5 "The Darkness and The Light"

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Good episode.

Most of it worked for me. I do wish that the characterisation and plotting for Doctor Light was a little stronger. Firstly, it would have been nice if she was something other than a petty thief, although it sounds like AFTER she became a metahuman, she was perhaps looking to become a hero? I didn't quite follow what Doctor Light did once she acquired her powers, but she must have done something to earn a name like Doctor Light and to have a reason to wear a snazzy costume.

Secondly, I get that Zoom is forcing metahumans through the portal to travel to Earth 1 to kill Barry because Zoom wants to be the best and only speedster in the multiverse. I also get that Doctor Light had no interest in killing The Flash and simply wanted to rob a bank, get some money, buy a false identity and "hide" on Earth 1 from Zoom. That kind of makes sense, although once again, why Doctor Light would choose to rob banks in Central City instead of simply travelling to another part of the US is mind baffling.

I started to lose track of Doctor Light's motivations when she thought that she could kill her doppleganger (and presumably everyone who knew that Linda had a doppleganger from Earth 2, which would have to include The Flash) and assume Linda's identity. Or did Doctor Light somehow think that the witnesses at the newspaper, The Flash, etc would all be okay with her murdering Linda and assuming Linda's identity to hide in plain sight from Zoom. And was Doctor Light not smart enough to realise that she must have been sent to Earth 1 precisely because Barry knew her doppleganger, which means that Zoom obviously knew about her doppleganger and would know where to look for her?

Other than the nonsensical storyline for Doctor Light, it was a well written and enjoyable episode.

I don't know how they're going to get rid of Patty to set up the inevitable Barry and Iris relationship. At this stage, Patty is clearly a wonderful romantic match for Barry and Iris is clearly a wonderful "best friend/sister" for Barry.

Also, Harry is pretty wonderful. And I like that they're keeping his motivations a mystery for the time being. Obviously, he wants to save his daughter, but is he doing that by setting up The Flash to be killed or is he genuinely interested in helping The Flash to defeat Zoom? That's the kind of drama I'm interested in - not all of the secret baby brother drama.
 
I'm still wondering why Zoom can't go after Barry directly. He is a lot more ruthless then RF was so whenever he can face Flash, I expect the fight will do a lot of damage.

I vaguely recall an early interview with one of TPTB where they said that Zoom can't travel from Earth 2 to Earth 1 (perhaps because he's afraid that he'll lose the speed force like Jay did?) and that it would be explained as the season progressed.

Of course, it now looks like Zoom does exactly that in next week's episode, so who knows? Perhaps we'll get some sort of explanation in the next episode.
 
I vaguely recall an early interview with one of TPTB where they said that Zoom can't travel from Earth 2 to Earth 1 (perhaps because he's afraid that he'll lose the speed force like Jay did?) and that it would be explained as the season progressed.

except that he already did...
when he dropped sand demon on our earth
 
Favorite Cisco line of the night

"You know are Dr. Wells may have been Evil, But your just a Dick" rofl!!!!
 
Fantastic episode, I thought the date with Patty & Barry with Cisco in his ear was brilliant fun, so well executed with a lot of charm, actually the highlight of the ep IMO.

The friction between Jay and the jerk version of Wells from Earth Two is intriguing, Wells can't be trusted but it seems Jay has a crisis of confidence. It was also good to see Cisco take is next step in becoming Vibe.

Dr. Light's costumes and power looked great and her tie to Linda has a branching potential for Linda. The showdown with Barry using the Flash Mirage was awesome.

Zoom looks so badass and he's kidnapped Emma Stone! :wow:
 
I think he is not meant to come over as someone who doesn't 'know' how to handle people - I'm pretty sure it will turn out that he is very good in how to handle people when the season progresses, at least in form of manipulation. This Wells doesn't seem like a misunderstood nerd to me, not at all. He seems more like a very calculating fellow whose plans blew up into his face, and he tries to do damage control.

Doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with understanding people and connecting to them but I doubt this is because of the usual nerd trope.

Also, the audience watching Wells will very much be influenced in how they comprehend him, categorize him, by how he acts on the screen, thus, if he comes over like a smoothe bastard who is able to keep a crowd in awe of him, it makes it hard to believe that he is supposed to be some kind of shy nerd who is just behaving like a total twerp because he can't help it.
I read alot of the titans and when wally became the flash. I don't remember him like that. but I do under him having doubts filling in someone else's shoes who he respected and looked up too and was his uncle and was sorta of legend. but it wasn't as bad as this show portrays barry in live action form in tv. cause they over exaggerated his(Barry's') self doubt.

here's the thing we both know both barry and wally shouldn't be like this. it just the writer's thinking he should be like this . it's holding him self back and that's his true archenemy in the show. it's his self doubt . I don't mind ifthey wantto play the mentor bit for a bit longer butdon't over doit withb the self doubt.


As to the star labs team, I 've been thinking about this all day while I was away and having their advice isn't bad or having them in his ear mic isn't bad ether. but he is overly reliant on them. It shouldn't be a bad thing but the writers are over doing it in the sense, that he doesn't have an idea of his own or he doesn't take their advice and still makes a chose in how he'll go about it on his own approach wise.

this is also what's being some what addressed on super girl which we'll see next week about her having issue's with super man saving her.

which is weird cause most of the other poster's from here were complaining about why he wasn't helping her out more with the criminals from their planets with in her show. but she'll be complaining about her independence as a super heroin when he does help her out.

with flash's here's the solution. have a few episode where he fall's out of contact with the star labs team cause his mic ether is ether broken in the fight or being interfered with/ jammed for some episodes .

after that, do what was done with the story of Perseus in the animated show from CBS mythic legend about being a hero and a leader. Do take advice from the people you lead or in the heroes case where flash is involved that support him. But let him come with some plans of his own in the field and how he'll approach it. he's the one in the field for the time being he has final say chose wise.




Dude I watched season 1 in real time. I already know all this and it's irrelevant because it's not what I asked. I asked about the girl because the producer of the show teased that we would see early Jesse Quick in this episode. Well lo and behold the actress playing Earth 2 Wells' seed was indeed the same one cast as Jesse. So in this universe Jesse Quick is the daughter of a Harrison Wells and Johnny Quick doesn't even exist.

yeah I didn't recognize her cause her cause I know the earth 1 version of her self will have longer hair still.


this sadly no different then what's was done(or will be done to a degree) with dr. light who's of Japanese origin. Being made into Linda park who's Chinese American decent in the show or how wally was force into iris's and joe's immediate/ nuclear family cause the writers don't want think main heroes should have more family uncles and aunt's or god parents(friend of the family) for what ever reason and thus each heroes family seem to have this once your parents are killed of that's the end of your family tree line which is weird where dc is involved oh well


I also and had a talk with my youngest sister who watches these shows and she found it odd they did this to jess quick as well

I made a comment on the first page jokingly about why they made dr. light Linda park and said maybe it's cause writer said hey she's asian and J don't feel like hiring a new actress. maybe the same weird excuse was used with Jessy quick , who has an awesome back ground story that she's from legacy of heroes like her father.

also my sister stated that dr. well's and his wife sure didn't act like they had children. which is why I mentioned wally being forced into joe's immediate family the writer said as an excuse they didn't want to use the word cousin thing cause to them it was still a new person they know nothing about that was brought in for the season. how ever the flaw with what they said about the cousin deal still amount's to the same deal with unknown birth of the brother or if he was a half brother/ sibling from another father or mother or the same but she hid it from poor joe.

ether way we still don't know that character and we'll have to learn about him once he's introduced ether through those characters like iris, ether way being that they already had a history with him or are just learning about him by meeting him. this is why that excuse didn't set well with me. that said what's done is done


in Jessy quick's case I'm sure this will be explained well why she wasn't mentioned til now and what happened to her once Eobard killed her parents? he didn't talk about her. it 's like she didn't exist and with the way he acted he'd be likely to have killed her like he did to plastique cause she'd notice he's being suspicious and other habits has that her real dad doctor well's didn't share. it'll have to be addressed .



what matter's right now is what type of execution they use in the story hopefully it not some that turn the audience off
. and there's still matter since she was still having her drug problem's with wally being meta would he have his own speed force powers be warped to to her drug use?


Totally agree. Earth 2's Barry is evil while Earth 2's Wells is good aka the reverse (see what I did there? :woot:).

And he has a daughter?! So does that mean we might see Tess again?
yeah I see what you did . I would like to know this as well. what is his wife up to over there? hopefully she's still alive as well.




I wasn't joking, I was surprised that Cisco was a meta human.
well if you missed all that during the end of the season last year. which meant's ether school or work got in the way or something else. you should have been able to have seen the repeats . and seeing there web site's like net flixx ans more like shoe me. ....

and this is beside net works they air on which like abc, cw, nbc etc. which all have their own online service's that stream the episode that same week.

Ether way I'm sorry to hear you missed those parts hopefully this year will go better for you.
 
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If Zoom is Earth 2 Barry, I hope we see Harry as carrying some major guilt over his transformation into the speed demon. There was something about the way Cavanaugh played some of Harry's approach to Barry that seemed melancholic and suspiciously optimistic. My guess is that on some level, we'll see a reveres of the chemistry from last year, with Harry trying to get Barry's faith in him back, even though he can't.
 
She did, I don't know how you miss that but... well, it's rather obvious to me at least.

Well, seeing that she was supposed to be his 'best buddy' I think it would have been kinda - just a itty bit - expected of her to be supportive, like any decent friend would be. And, even if they weren't friends, what she did was just plain awful, clearly one of her worst moments for me so far. But sure, you liked her like that, then the more power to you, it's just good that we are finally over that phase it seems.

Oh... oh! I just realized who you are! XD

Sure, bless you too, my friend! lol
It's really only seen that way if you want to see it that way. The show gives no impression that her intentions are sabotage, not in her attitude or in her actions. It's no ones job to be supportive to someone who let their lives be in danger for weeks. Her and Barry may call eachother friends, but he hasn't treated her like she is for a lot of the show, so she has no obligation to his feelings or intentions. No one would, even if they were actually friends. I have no feelings regarding Iris on the show either way and I haven't had any at any point really, beyond slight annoyance for her in the Pilot and in the episode where she gets angry at Barry because he tells her that she has feelings for him. It's not about preference. It's about the facts the show presents. Thank you very much!

God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life!
 
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I really think this was the funniest episode of the show so far.
 
Sorry to barge in. Im just registering and want to ask this quick question.

Does Celeste Anderson from King of Nerds starring as a guest in this episode? I Thought I spotted her as a background character when Dr. Wells gave his speech on first few minutes. Wearing blue dress.

Thats her or im just imagining things?

http://imgur.com/1wNlHPl
 
Good episode.

I don't know how they're going to get rid of Patty to set up the inevitable Barry and Iris relationship. At this stage, Patty is clearly a wonderful romantic match for Barry and Iris is clearly a wonderful "best friend/sister" for Barry.

If I had to guess, I'd say Patty will die in the fight with Zoom, causing Berry to go into some craze/reclusiveness for season 3. This will set up him and Iris. That's just a guess, but I could definitely see it happening since Patty and him seem like such a perfect match.
 
Barry's the only one to trust Earth-2 Harrison Wells. I think Barry will teach Jay to get his confidence back.
 
If I had to guess, I'd say Patty will die in the fight with Zoom, causing Berry to go into some craze/reclusiveness for season 3. This will set up him and Iris. That's just a guess, but I could definitely see it happening since Patty and him seem like such a perfect match.

This is a storyline I speculated happening in the New 52 comics when they used Patty as a love interest.
I stopped reading after Manapul left the title but I think he becomes the Dark/Blue Flash after Patty dies
 
Perhaps Zoom is the Earth 2 version of Barry's father.

That's another Possiblity simpley because his leaving seemed a bit odd when the guy got out of jail. He was like Thanks for getting me out of jail but cya gotta go somewhere.
 
I liked a lot of the stuff in this episode. Barry and Patty's date was one of the best parts, especially with Cisco listening in while helping Barry out. I laughed so hard at Cisco's running commentary during the date as he served as Barry's "eyes" while Barry was temporarily sightless. :) Also, the chemistry between Patty and Barry was superb and adorable.

It was great to see Tom Cavanaugh back in the show as the Earth-2 version of Harrison Wells. He has enormous screen presence and he plays off the other cast members very well. His interactions with Cisco, Barry, and Jay were especially interesting to watch.

It was a pretty neat twist making Dr. Light the Earth-2 version of Linda Park. I hadn't expected that. It certainly gave Linda's actress more stuff to do than usual, which was a nice change. The only problem I had was that I wished that they had fleshed out Dr. Light's motivations more. I hope they'll explain her motivations in more detail, and more clearly, in the future.

I'm looking forward to the arrival of Zoom. He continues to seem highly intimidating and threatening.
 
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Anyone else annoyed with the fact that Team Flash keeps comparing Harrison Wells to the man that killed Barry's mother? He didn't kill her, it was Eobard Thawne...

Harrison Wells had nothing to do with her death.

They understand that. But the thing is, they also witnessed Eobard Thawne doing all of these evil deeds while wearing the face of Harrison Wells. As a result, the members of Team Flash associate Wells' face with the Reverse-Flash. And it's only natural that they would do so. Pretty much anyone else would do the same thing.
 
they should be calling him thawne though since they did the autopsy though ifthey are scientists after all nd it dis respect to the man that both he and his wife were killed by same as barry's mother and had his identity stolen by especilly since it almost happen with them with the shape shifter meta. they were almost framed them selves. I get what MysticSkye ment.
 
they should be calling him thawne though since they did the autopsy though ifthey are scientists after all nd it dis respect to the man that both he and his wife were killed by same as barry's mother and had his identity stolen by especilly since it almost happen with them with the shape shifter meta. they were almost framed them selves. I get what MysticSkye ment.

Scientists are not robots. They do have emotions, you know.
 
Scientists are not robots. They do have emotions, you know.
no they aren't Robot's they are human as are any else.


but what I meant with that is they are people that are better aware cause they investigated fuex wells which they found out was Eobard thawne and they did an autopsy which with forensic's they know how the real well's what time he died and also when his wife died AS WELL and Eobard thawne stole the real well's Identity and also added to the fact they also met a meta human that was using their identity's TO MESS WITH THEM. or they're OWN daya to day look as humans, to cause them trouble til Barryas thje flash finally caught that meta and it was on cam for the cops and lawers to see.

They should have an idea then to keep association a poor dead man's face being the reals doctor wells and his image that was stolen after barry's mother death with the man that was hiding under it after tthose three people deaths since then. Maybe that if that meta human shape shifter was more of the like of the joker or a worse some wacked out serial killer that couldn't take a step in public with out killing someone cause his urge was that bad and he did it in their image it would have sank in better?

but when I said this it due to the fact of when barry stated this about needing evidence with Jay in the second episode of this very season. they fallow and believe the evidence and move on from there. barry was using it as a way to be cautious cause he didn't know Jay. but he was sorta right to do so but he was too jerky about it and used it in the wrong way. but it was understandable too.

but now that they know better with the whole Dr.well's and the Da's office of that city is awre of shap shifters and identity's being faked by that or tech since his mother death thing cause the real dr. well's died fallowing her's which the autopsy would made clear and this is how they do think they should know better.

Again no they aren't robot's.,

but they are more sensible then small ville Johnathan kent (or the current show of Gotham's alfed) that pushed his hate for Lionel Luther's action on his son which was Lex who didn't agree with alot of the crap his dad did. and still had a chance be good person but john kent helped push lex to the point of villainy with his bigotry of rich people steming from lex's dad action alone.


This is what I mean they the star labs team are scientists. they just know better and are more rational people cause they know and more importanrtly have the evidence and should know Eobard didn't have poor dead doctor well's face til after dr. well's and his wife died fallowing barry mother in that same time period. they know alot is possible since meeting eobard thwane and the meta's and have the evidence too for all accounts . this is all I meant
 
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This is the episode that may have broken the camel's back for me. I really like the lead, most of the cast and this is a character I have always loved... But I am just getting tired of the sloppy writing and conceptualization of the characters and... Look, it was easier to cut the show some slack in season one. A show needs to find it's legs, the cast and crew need to get comfortable and into a groove, I know this. But we are into season two now and it seems less a groove but a formulaic rut.

First, what I liked:

1. Tom C. back as Wells 2.0. However they may use him, Cavanaugh is a solid performer and it was great to see him as this very different Wells from Earth 2. Blunt, sarcastic, it was a great change from the mysterious Zen manipulator that was his Thawne/Wells from season one.

2. Cisco getting the power out in the open. That bit of drama felt so forced that it was nice to just get it out of the way. It added nothing to the mix and was unnecessary from the giddyup.

And for myself, that's about it as far as positives.

What made me sigh enough to power a wind farm for a solid week:

1. I like this new Wells but... Why does the show repeat itself so often? Barry has struggle or crisis of confidence, supporting cast member gives him pep talk and/or advice/words of encouragement through ear piece during showdown in last third which helps to defeat the bad guy. Once or twice, okay, but now it's a pattern. Wells talks him through a self imposed barrier, Iris gives him the confidence to fight on, Wells 2 and Jay give him the (unneeded) edge to take out Light. Sorry... This stuff IS undermining Barry as a character and it's getting done WAY too much on the show. Where is Barry's own scientific acumen and sense that he can solve problems on his own? Why can't the writers come up with a better way to illustrate something to the audience than have all these speeches and exposition? Maybe they should have integrated that intro voice over into the rest of the show. That way Barry can explain to the audience his though process and it would have eliminated the need for such a large supporting cast back at STAR Labs.

2. Seriously show... Barry has one of the most formidable of the classic comic book super powers, mastery over speed and motion and various other physics bending abilities. Why... WHY was Dr. Light, especially as she was presented, suddenly this gigantic obstacle? Especially the second time they fought? What is it with the sloppily written hero/villain confrontations? And NO... Saying it's just a super hero show on the CW is a very, very weak tea response to this issue. It's frankly a weak tea response to any and all criticism of this or any of the Berlanti DC shows. Barry runs behind Dr. Light and bonks her on the head. End of fight. That should really have been the extent of it, even if you were stretching things out creatively, which the show didn't even do any way. Fine, that blast that [BLACKOUT]temporarily robbed Barry of sight... [/BLACKOUT] does make some sense, but... Barry should have known that was a possibility, even he has even one active brain cell. Not only that... He takes NO precautions when confronting her again. Hello... [BLACKOUT]Tinted goggles, problem solved.[/BLACKOUT] They really need to be more creative in these fights. Fine, it's understandable that they need to draw things out but the context matters and there was no reason outside of plot induced stupidity that Barry shouldn't have been able to wrap Dr. Light up with a bow to deliver to Iron Heights in under a minute.

3. I just don't give a crap about Snow and Jay and I certainly don't like the idea that Jay just runs off for... reasons. Talk about undermining a character. A hero that bails when the stakes are high. A hero that apparently needed some BS love interest to stick around to fight the main threat in the first place. Sorry.. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

4. Call me a black hearted SOB but... Wasn't entertained by the romantic dinner Barry and Patty had. I found it cloying and trying too hard. Let's be honest here, [BLACKOUT]this is all set up for Barry crying over Patty cuz Zoom or some other villain killed her, and then Iris picks up Barry on the rebound. Sorry, but the show hasn't shown the ability to do anything but the most cliched stuff so, why should this be any different?[/BLACKOUT]

5. Why was Dr. Light so incredibly STUPID? [BLACKOUT]I'm going to kill my counter part on this Earth and take her place. My cunning plan will work out despite killing her in broad daylight in front of all her co-workers.[/BLACKOUT] That ladies and gentlemen was the sloppiest of sloppy Joe's.

Look, I really like the bare bones of the show, but it's season two. Things should be tighter but they aren't 5 episodes in. There's still too much editorially mandated drama for drama's sake rather then having it flow naturally from the stories and plots and possibilities inherent with the characters. And they really need to work on obstacles for Flash and how he works around them. I'm sorry but the sort of inconsistency of power stuff isn't just me being an old comic nerd. If I were 11 years old such things would not make me sigh any less. I'm sorry but for myself, it's starting to get to be a chore to watch the show. I am interested to see where this season goes, wher the arcs and plots lead us, but the execution each week gets messier and messier.
 
I read alot of the titans and when wally became the flash. I don't remember him like that. but I do under him having doubts filling in someone else's shoes who he respected and looked up too and was his uncle and was sorta of legend. but it wasn't as bad as this show portrays barry in live action form in tv. cause they over exaggerated his(Barry's') self doubt.

here's the thing we both know both barry and wally shouldn't be like this. it just the writer's thinking he should be like this . it's holding him self back and that's his true archenemy in the show. it's his self doubt . I don't mind ifthey wantto play the mentor bit for a bit longer butdon't over doit withb the self doubt.


As to the star labs team, I 've been thinking about this all day while I was away and having their advice isn't bad or having them in his ear mic isn't bad ether. but he is overly reliant on them. It shouldn't be a bad thing but the writers are over doing it in the sense, that he doesn't have an idea of his own or he doesn't take their advice and still makes a chose in how he'll go about it on his own approach wise.

this is also what's being some what addressed on super girl which we'll see next week about her having issue's with super man saving her.

which is weird cause most of the other poster's from here were complaining about why he wasn't helping her out more with the criminals from their planets with in her show. but she'll be complaining about her independence as a super heroin when he does help her out.

with flash's here's the solution. have a few episode where he fall's out of contact with the star labs team cause his mic ether is ether broken in the fight or being interfered with/ jammed for some episodes .

after that, do what was done with the story of Perseus in the animated show from CBS mythic legend about being a hero and a leader. Do take advice from the people you lead or in the heroes case where flash is involved that support him. But let him come with some plans of his own in the field and how he'll approach it. he's the one in the field for the time being he has final say chose wise.

This reply doesn't fit to the post you answered to as I was talking about Wells...

I hardly read any teen titans at all, I speak from the Flash comics.

This Barry on this show is clearly not able to work without a team which is something that has been pretty nicely established by now. I don't like it because I'm used to the Barry in the comic books being able to hold his own in battle without someone constantly having to tell him what he has to do next and so on. In a way this is really ridiculous, Flash is supposed to be a character who is extremely fast, the team at the labs should more be a hindrance during the fights than anything else as they can't be quick enough to keep up. To make this not the case, they put Barry up against people who are not speedsters, and he still fails to take care of them without his friends aid. This is just bad, really, really bad writing.

I haven't watched Supergirl so far.

The show is really starting to grate on my nerves, and I doubt they will come up with a solution to establish Barry as someone who can stand on his own anytime soon. A pity, really, they had such a great character at their hands and they turn him into this.
 
If I had to guess, I'd say Patty will die in the fight with Zoom, causing Berry to go into some craze/reclusiveness for season 3. This will set up him and Iris. That's just a guess, but I could definitely see it happening since Patty and him seem like such a perfect match.

I really hope that doesn't happen, that would be so annoying.
 
This reply doesn't fit to the post you answered to as I was talking about Wells...

I hardly read any teen titans at all, I speak from the Flash comics.

This Barry on this show is clearly not able to work without a team which is something that has been pretty nicely established by now. I don't like it because I'm used to the Barry in the comic books being able to hold his own in battle without someone constantly having to tell him what he has to do next and so on. In a way this is really ridiculous, Flash is supposed to be a character who is extremely fast, the team at the labs should more be a hindrance during the fights than anything else as they can't be quick enough to keep up. To make this not the case, they put Barry up against people who are not speedsters, and he still fails to take care of them without his friends aid. This is just bad, really, really bad writing.

I haven't watched Supergirl so far.

The show is really starting to grate on my nerves, and I doubt they will come up with a solution to establish Barry as someone who can stand on his own anytime soon. A pity, really, they had such a great character at their hands and they turn him into this.
well that's the wally I grew up with both of the teen titans to thetitan book mid to late 20's on his career path to flash and the league and the flash main books which is as I suspected we read different era's with certain writers .

I hope this is a problem ?

which why I said I don't remember this type of from wally I know he had doubt's it makes sense but to the over bearing degree as Barry does on this show. no Iknow that never happened . and he was aloowedto over come this. and I'm a bit of a comic completetis . Mostly marvel, but I have decently good collecttion of dc books as well most where the titans member are involved and that where wally came into play as well as the flash books and when he took over for barry.


you should give super girl a shot . when you have the time.
 
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That [BLACKOUT]Aquaman[/BLACKOUT] reference. :atp:
 
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