The Good Citizens of Metropolis: The Casting Thread

[unholyrevenger]

It's amazing to me how some people still desire remixing established white characters instead of supporting the creation of new original black characters or elevating ones that already exist.

Why is it amazing? there are only so many super hero gimmicks, themes and origin stories. You can see this in the mcu they have told one origin storie.

What is the point of MBJ playing Superman? Just to have a Black Superman?

Box office draw

How does it advance the story? As a black Spiderman fan, I never cared that he was white. It was about his heroism, characterization, and the story. All of that is far more important than race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. This is what SJWs don't get it. Race may be part of the story. It's a problem when it becomes THE story.

sjw aren't the one's complaining about race bending. It's bigots that make it THE story.

White liberals at Marvel/DC/Disney/Warner Bros. may honestly feel like they're helping but race-bending isn't being progressive. You're hindering the ability of POC and female characters to exist without being a comparison or competition to their predecessor. This is the dilemma with someone like Miles Morales. Peter Parker will always be Spiderman. Miles will forever be tagged as "The Black Spiderman", and I find that tragic.

As i stated earlier there are only so many gimmicks, themes and origin stories that even a new character will just be called Black --------. I.e. Icon is just Black Superman.

I prefer black characters as fully-realized beings that can stand on their own two feet.

It's about heroism, characterization, and the story. Not whether or not they're race bent characters

Lastly, the insinuation that any and all casting backlash by fans or the general public is racism is weak. I'm sorry. Superman at almost 80 years old is the most iconic superhero, ever. He's been around for 7 damn decades as a white man. So if you choose to cast someone that doesn't coincide with what people have come to visualize as Superman, I think naturally it would strike people as odd. People are going to stop and say, "Wait, what?" It's not even like it's a Nick Fury situation where you have a supporting character that was never represented on the big screen for the masses to see prior to Sam Jackson portraying him. it's easier for the public to accept it because the public at large had no idea who Nick Fury was. Superman is another case entirely.

You're right it's not racism it's traditionalism and bigotry, and neither of those have an argumentative basis.

 

[unholyrevenger]

It's amazing to me how some people still desire remixing established white characters instead of supporting the creation of new original black characters or elevating ones that already exist.

Why is it amazing? there are only so many super hero gimmicks, themes and origin stories. You can see this in the mcu they have told one origin storie.

What is the point of MBJ playing Superman? Just to have a Black Superman?

Box office draw

How does it advance the story? As a black Spiderman fan, I never cared that he was white. It was about his heroism, characterization, and the story. All of that is far more important than race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. This is what SJWs don't get it. Race may be part of the story. It's a problem when it becomes THE story.

sjw aren't the one's complaining about race bending. It's bigots that make it THE story.

White liberals at Marvel/DC/Disney/Warner Bros. may honestly feel like they're helping but race-bending isn't being progressive. You're hindering the ability of POC and female characters to exist without being a comparison or competition to their predecessor. This is the dilemma with someone like Miles Morales. Peter Parker will always be Spiderman. Miles will forever be tagged as "The Black Spiderman", and I find that tragic.

As i stated earlier there are only so many gimmicks, themes and origin stories that even a new character will just be called Black --------. I.e. Icon is just Black Superman.

I prefer black characters as fully-realized beings that can stand on their own two feet.

It's about heroism, characterization, and the story. Not whether or not they're race bent characters

Lastly, the insinuation that any and all casting backlash by fans or the general public is racism is weak. I'm sorry. Superman at almost 80 years old is the most iconic superhero, ever. He's been around for 7 damn decades as a white man. So if you choose to cast someone that doesn't coincide with what people have come to visualize as Superman, I think naturally it would strike people as odd. People are going to stop and say, "Wait, what?" It's not even like it's a Nick Fury situation where you have a supporting character that was never represented on the big screen for the masses to see prior to Sam Jackson portraying him. it's easier for the public to accept it because the public at large had no idea who Nick Fury was. Superman is another case entirely.

You're right it's not racism it's traditionalism and bigotry, and neither of those have an argumentative basis.

 

[unholyrevenger]

It's amazing to me how some people still desire remixing established white characters instead of supporting the creation of new original black characters or elevating ones that already exist.

Why is it amazing? there are only so many super hero gimmicks, themes and origin stories. You can see this in the mcu they have told one origin storie.

What is the point of MBJ playing Superman? Just to have a Black Superman?

Box office draw

How does it advance the story? As a black Spiderman fan, I never cared that he was white. It was about his heroism, characterization, and the story. All of that is far more important than race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. This is what SJWs don't get it. Race may be part of the story. It's a problem when it becomes THE story.

sjw aren't the one's complaining about race bending. It's bigots that make it THE story.

White liberals at Marvel/DC/Disney/Warner Bros. may honestly feel like they're helping but race-bending isn't being progressive. You're hindering the ability of POC and female characters to exist without being a comparison or competition to their predecessor. This is the dilemma with someone like Miles Morales. Peter Parker will always be Spiderman. Miles will forever be tagged as "The Black Spiderman", and I find that tragic.

As i stated earlier there are only so many gimmicks, themes and origin stories that even a new character will just be called Black --------. I.e. Icon is just Black Superman.

I prefer black characters as fully-realized beings that can stand on their own two feet.

It's about heroism, characterization, and the story. Not whether or not they're race bent characters

Lastly, the insinuation that any and all casting backlash by fans or the general public is racism is weak. I'm sorry. Superman at almost 80 years old is the most iconic superhero, ever. He's been around for 7 damn decades as a white man. So if you choose to cast someone that doesn't coincide with what people have come to visualize as Superman, I think naturally it would strike people as odd. People are going to stop and say, "Wait, what?" It's not even like it's a Nick Fury situation where you have a supporting character that was never represented on the big screen for the masses to see prior to Sam Jackson portraying him. it's easier for the public to accept it because the public at large had no idea who Nick Fury was. Superman is another case entirely.

You're right it's not racism it's traditionalism and bigotry, and neither of those have an argumentative basis.

 

[Vaibow]

Well, just look at the controversy Dwayne Johnson had when he announced Henry Irons 'He in't black enough'. So, it matters to people - does that make them racist?
The thing is, it just feels forced due to the supposed current climate. Right now, 'they' will tell you the world is divided, racist and on edge, more than ever... I don't think it is, i think it's the same as always has been and will be - if you focus on something, it's all you will see. I don't really want to get into politics, but i have been so fortunate to have worked all over the globe and i can tell you, every nation, every race, they are tribal and proud of their history and heritage and with that comes a desire to protect that - it's primal and it can come across as racist and ofcourse, like how we sadly have murderers, rapists, part of the horrible human spectrum can be hatred towards someone based on their skin, creed, religion and it's sadly never going to change - but the positive far out weighs the bad.
It would feel a lot more organic if they chose an actor that best suit the vision they wanted and that's it. To switch up a skin colour, just cos, seems lazy. It's like, if they had gone with Will Smith back in the 90s, would he have acted like Clark and Superman as we know it, or would he have given us his interpretation which maybe included more swagger and an aspect of black culture - because then it changes the dynamics and character, in comparison to an actor with range like Denzil Washington.
Zorro wouldn't really work if he was portrayed by an Asian actor - but in theory why not? But, it just changes the dynamics.
I'm all for MBJ or anyone playing Clark Kent, if what i see on screen fits in to how i expect Clark/Superman to be.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

There’s a lot of things that make Superman who he is.
Character defining things that people look to Superman specifically for.
Things that would make Superman less Superman like if they were missing.

Not a single one of those things is him being white.
It doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t
****ing
Matter

 

[Assassin32]

Sure. But they are a small minority and not at all representative of the population and culture that Clark Kent is supposed to be a part of. There are white people in Harlem, but that doesn't mean Luke Cage should be white. It isn't at all what the character is.

Your Luke Cage comparison is actually apt in a discussion on casting a new Superman, but for reasons you're not considering. A heroic white man with bulletproof skin is not nearly as culturally or politically charged as a heroic black (or brown or red or yellow) man with bulletproof skin. It isn't nearly as provocative, and therefore, its potential for meaning-making only shrinks.

This can be particularly effective with an immigrant character who stands for Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

My point is that nothing is lost if you darken Superman's skin. Nothing at all. Truth and justice are not the domain of whites. Power is not, no matter what our culture suggests, the providence of white people. Superman's story can only become more complex, more interesting if you complicate the way he appears to the world. And that should be a valuable entry point for any storyteller; at times, Superman has inspired apathy because his powers render him a god on earth, and it's difficult to raise the stakes for a fictional god without deploying trite narratives and well-worn tropes.

Clark Kent wasn't part Japanese, just the actor playing him. That's like saying Lex Luthor was gay in SR just because Kevin Spacey played him.

They simply sidestepped addressing the character's appearance in Lois & Clark because they could. But your Spacey comparison doesn't hold much weight because phenotype and sexuality are not comparable. Television and film are spectacle. And Clark Kent and Superman looked exactly like Dean Cain. If you remember the height of that show's popularity, then you'll remember that that fact was not lost on its viewers.

 

[Robin's Gambit]

There’s a lot of things that make Superman who he is.
Character defining things that people look to Superman specifically for.
Things that would make Superman less Superman like if they were missing.

Not a single one of those things is him being white.
It doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t
****ing
Matter

Yes it does matter. People like to pretend race has no bearing at all on a character but it does. A black Clark Kent growing up in rural Kansas is a very different dynamic than white Clark Kent growing in Kansas. White men have the ultimate privilege, including the privilege to not even think about race or racism. No way in hell would a black kid have the same experience. The entire premise of his origin is that he lands on a farm in Middle America and he's able to adapt and grow up without any tangible concern about being "othered" because 9 out of 10 people in town look exactly like him. Kryptonian be damned, Clark's whiteness and Superman's All-American (white) appeal has always been apparent. Screw wanting a Black Clark or inheriting this mantle in the form of Val-Zod, an Earth-2 alternate universe hand-me-down. Give me Static Shock. Give me Vixen. Protect Cyborg. Protect Black Panther. Elevate Storm. Elevate Bishop. No need for this pandering garbage when DC, Marvel, etc. have actual black heroes in their arsenal to promote.

 

[David H.]

You just made the notion of a black Superman sound more interesting.

 

[thebatfan5194]

I think there’s something to be said about preserving the iconography of a character that has been around for nearly 100 years...

 

[David H.]

Because those 100 or so years would go away so easily...

 

[fan4stic]

Jamie Dornan as Clark Kent/Superman

Lauren Cohan as Lois Lane

Ryan Potter as Jimmy Olsen

Michael Fassbender as Lex Luthor

Ralph Fiennes as Brainiac

Josh Brolin as Jonathan Kent

Lucy Lawless as Martha Kent

Luke Evans as Jor-El

Rose Byrne as Lara-El

Lee Pace as Parasite

Oscar Isaac as John Corben/Metal-0

Maggie Q as Mercy Graves

Andre Braugher as Perry White

 

[thebatfan5194]

Because those 100 or so years would go away so easily...

They wouldn’t go away, but I just feel like characters become so iconic and his looks are a huge part of that iconography so you’re bound to ruffle feathers even of people who are genuinely not racist or hateful.

Superman has an established look and I feel like that should be adhered to with some loose liberties taken. Why not just invest more in Black characters that haven’t been adapted yet like John Stewart, Static Shock, etc or better yet, make a new character?

TBh, would my life be over if they cast a black actor as Superman? Of course not. But I can’t help but thinking that that actor would forever be marked as “the black Superman” rather than just Superman by the majority of people, mainly because he doesn’t feel like the character they know based on the looks.

 

[David H.]

I think there’s plenty of room for deviations given that Superman has reached a level iconography so high and rare that the mere mention of his name evokes a specific set of concepts, ideals, that can be far removed from any visual.

I think Superman transcends looks and I wouldn’t pity any actor of color who could potentially be cast as Superman for whatever retractions may be lobbed at them, same as I wouldn’t and don’t pity Daniel Craig for being “blonde Bond.”

 

[fan4stic]

James Wolk as Superman

 

[Vaibow]

Imagine if the kryptonian ship landed right now, in certain parts of South Africa.. he’ll need bullet proof skin as a white kid growing up there!
Superman is a part of American culture.
If superman was iconic as part of Indian culture and he reflected that and looked Indian, to portray him as any other race/ethnicity... I think its... I don’t think it’s racist for wanting more of the same!
It’s like iron fist - people wanted him to be Asian American to truly reflect the culture... ok so why can’t Clark Kent stay white to reflect that culture. It just feels apologetic and reactionary when it isn’t needed.

 

[Boy Scout]

So you can’t be brown skinned and represent America?

 

[Vaibow]

So you can’t be brown skinned and represent America?

Ofcourse you can.. but that’s my point.. it feels like to some, you can’t be white to represent America.. it’s not diverse enough to some - in that it’s a dirty word - you just have to go on social media to see sjw’s attacking white men, white history, statues being torn down.. I don’t think changing his skin to be ‘political’ is correct.. I think no matter what you do with superman - rightly or wrong will be seen and judged as either political or motivated. We’ve seen how ‘the American way’ has been dropped at times - So I feel for the sake of the character - keep him how he is and to focus on what he does best - inspiration.
Now if they did change it up - as long as I recognized what I saw - I wouldn’t mind at all.. but my point is there is nothing wrong with superman staying white and there is also nothing wrong with not wanting to use superman’s race by some to promote an agenda or to appear progressive. If you wanna appear aggressive to me - give me more representation - don’t just sprinkle diversity over something as an after thought which is how it feels to me.
It’s a tough subject and it’s gunna divide people - it’s sensitive I get that - But I really think some things don’t need to change.
And i’m not even American or pro/against America.. I have no agenda in it - as a lot of us don’t - I am just happy with the way it is!

 

[Vaibow]

Jamie Dornan as Clark Kent/Superman

Lauren Cohan as Lois Lane

Ryan Potter as Jimmy Olsen

Michael Fassbender as Lex Luthor

Ralph Fiennes as Brainiac

Josh Brolin as Jonathan Kent

Lucy Lawless as Martha Kent

Luke Evans as Jor-El

Rose Byrne as Lara-El

Lee Pace as Parasite

Oscar Isaac as John Corben/Metal-0

Maggie Q as Mercy Graves

Andre Braugher as Perry White

Damn Ryan Potter looks like a young Dean Cain!! I like this casting... Andre Braugher could actually be a great lex.. calm and cool for the camera and citizens - giving speeches around town - calculated and harsh behind closed doors.. he has the height too!
I loved Lain Smith as Perry.. that’s the style/character I like... a younger Danny Glover would have been great.. Eddie Murphy could bring back the humour.. as long as he didn’t channel Donkey!!
I actually like the idea of Jimmy Olsen being Nordic or Scandinavian and a kind of fish out of water in metropolis - a few parallels to Clark!

 

[batman44]

James Wolk as Superman

My top choice for Superman right now

 

[flickchick85]

Wouldn't be my top pick, but not the worst choice. I'd prefer someone with sharper features (particularly the jawline), and he'd have to bulk up A LOT, more than Henry had to, but on the plus side he's taller than Henry and he certainly has the natural unassuming, wholesome charm to him. So I could kinda see it.

 

[fan4stic]

As far as Lois for a James Wolk Superman goes:

Rebecca Hall

Olivia Wilde

Emmy Rossum

 

[flickchick85]

Ha, I just thought about Emmy Rossum as a Lois candidate the other day. I think she'd be great.

 

[Assassin32]

I think there’s something to be said about preserving the iconography of a character that has been around for nearly 100 years...

The darkening of Superman's skin tone wouldn't disturb his iconography any more than it did when they gave him long hair in the '90s or when they erased his red underwear this millennium. Anyone who doesn't want him to have darker skin simply doesn't want him to have darker skin.

 

[fan4stic]

The darkening of Superman's skin tone wouldn't disturb his iconography any more than it did when they gave him long hair in the '90s or when they erased his red underwear this millennium. Anyone who doesn't want him to have darker skin simply doesn't want him to have darker skin.

I don't like the long hair or the lack of underwear for a long period of time either.

 

[Vaibow]

Ha, I just thought about Emmy Rossum as a Lois candidate the other day. I think she'd be great.

I thought the same thing whilst watching shameless..

The darkening of Superman's skin tone wouldn't disturb his iconography any more than it did when they gave him long hair in the '90s or when they erased his red underwear this millennium. Anyone who doesn't want him to have darker skin simply doesn't want him to have darker skin.

Why should superman change? Why!? Why is it seen as negative for not wanting change??