The Good Citizens of Metropolis: The Casting Thread

[2kt09]

Why should superman change? Why!? Why is it seen as negative for not wanting change??

stagnation

 

[Vaibow]

stagnation

I agree, to an extent - but my second part, why do people make it seem a negative if someone doesn’t want change??

 

[flickchick85]

I agree, to an extent - but my second part, why do people make it seem a negative if someone doesn’t want change??

Supporting stagnation.

 

[2kt09]

I agree, to an extent - but my second part, why do people make it seem a negative if someone doesn’t want change??

depends on the change

 

[Vaibow]

depends on the change

Not really answering the question is it.. but that’s cool - moving on

 

[elgaz]

I agree, to an extent - but my second part, why do people make it seem a negative if someone doesn’t want change??

Because some people would like to imply that if you don't want Superman portrayed by an actor who's Black/Asian/Indian/anything-but-Caucasian-white - then you're somehow a racist. I'm not making veiled digs at anyone on here, just stating in general.

I fully support equal rights for all ethnicities, particularly in movies. Historically Hollywood has often reduced Asian actors to mostly roles as extras in martial arts films (how many rom-coms have you seen with an Asian lead?) just as it has often utilised Middle Eastern actors as terrorists. And I don't think I need to insult anyone's intelligence by explaining the narrow window of opportunity which has been afforded to many Black actors over the years, that has been well documented by minds smarter than mine. Things are improving but it took a long time to get there and there's no justification for that.

With that said however - Superman has been a huge figure in popular culture for 80 years, and as with any icon there are aesthetic and physical traits which are part and parcel of their image and their identity. I picture Superman and I see - tall, dark haired, well-built Caucasian male in early-to-mid 30s. When you start changing something substantial like their skin colour, there is a risk that the character's identity will be lost. Just as it would if Superman was portrayed by a small fat man, or had long blonde hair like an 80s rock star. Not everything has to be changed in the pursuit of political correctness. It's the same reason I would prefer James Bond not to be played by a female and be called Jane Bond, the same reason I don't want Black Panther rewritten as a skinny white man, or Wonder Woman changed to Wonder Man. I don't think it's wrong to want to preserve our cultural icons as they are, and preserve their identity - which (I know) is a probably a very un-PC mentality in this age where identity is increasingly being portrayed as 'fluid'.

This is why we introduce new characters who can fulfil similar roles and allow scope for broader diversification. I'm all for Jane Bond being introduced, but as 008 or another designation - not 007. I'm all for an incredibly powerful Krypotonian being introduced who's played by a Black or Asian or Indian actor. I'm all for Mickey Mouse getting a new friend in his clubhouse, but not for him to be changed to a frog or some other lesser-used creature.

 

[Assassin32]

I don't like the long hair or the lack of underwear for a long period of time either.

And yet they happened. And they became part of his mythology. And he is still Superman.

Why should superman change? Why!? Why is it seen as negative for not wanting change??

Because he always has and he always will. Did you know that Superman didn't have the ability to fly originally? All things change. All matter is re-appropriated. It is a natural fact and a cosmic promise. It is the way of the universe. Traditions are illusory; they suggest permanence in an impermanent world. All things change, and if they don't, they die.

 

[Boom]

I really like Emily Hampshire for Lois Lane.

 

[Vaibow]

And yet they happened. And they became part of his mythology. And he is still Superman.



Because he always has and he always will. Did you know that Superman didn't have the ability to fly originally? All things change. All matter is re-appropriated. It is a natural fact and a cosmic promise. It is the way of the universe. Traditions are illusory; they suggest permanence in an impermanent world. All things change, and if they don't, they die.

I hear you - but as another poster eloquently stated - there is this misconception or agenda with some people that if you don’t embrace a particular change - like skin colour etc - then you are deemed racist. Anyways - it’s been perfectly explained and my feeling is such that characteristics can change, as can abilities... history shows this... but - his look has always been the same.. and no harm in that.

 

[Enriquespy]

Vincent D'Onofrio could've been a solid Luthor.

 

[Vaibow]

Because some people would like to imply that if you don't want Superman portrayed by an actor who's Black/Asian/Indian/anything-but-Caucasian-white - then you're somehow a racist. I'm not making veiled digs at anyone on here, just stating in general.

I fully support equal rights for all ethnicities, particularly in movies. Historically Hollywood has often reduced Asian actors to mostly roles as extras in martial arts films (how many rom-coms have you seen with an Asian lead?) just as it has often utilised Middle Eastern actors as terrorists. And I don't think I need to insult anyone's intelligence by explaining the narrow window of opportunity which has been afforded to many Black actors over the years, that has been well documented by minds smarter than mine. Things are improving but it took a long time to get there and there's no justification for that.

With that said however - Superman has been a huge figure in popular culture for 80 years, and as with any icon there are aesthetic and physical traits which are part and parcel of their image and their identity. I picture Superman and I see - tall, dark haired, well-built Caucasian male in early-to-mid 30s. When you start changing something substantial like their skin colour, there is a risk that the character's identity will be lost. Just as it would if Superman was portrayed by a small fat man, or had long blonde hair like an 80s rock star. Not everything has to be changed in the pursuit of political correctness. It's the same reason I would prefer James Bond not to be played by a female and be called Jane Bond, the same reason I don't want Black Panther rewritten as a skinny white man, or Wonder Woman changed to Wonder Man. I don't think it's wrong to want to preserve our cultural icons as they are, and preserve their identity - which (I know) is a probably a very un-PC mentality in this age where identity is increasingly being portrayed as 'fluid'.

This is why we introduce new characters who can fulfil similar roles and allow scope for broader diversification. I'm all for Jane Bond being introduced, but as 008 or another designation - not 007. I'm all for an incredibly powerful Krypotonian being introduced who's played by a Black or Asian or Indian actor. I'm all for Mickey Mouse getting a new friend in his clubhouse, but not for him to be changed to a frog or some other lesser-used creature.

Great post!!

 

[fan4stic]

And yet they happened. And they became part of his mythology. And he is still Superman.

I don't like them

 

[flickchick85]

I hear you - but as another poster eloquently stated - there is this misconception or agenda with some people that if you don’t embrace a particular change - like skin colour etc - then you are deemed racist. Anyways - it’s been perfectly explained and my feeling is such that characteristics can change, as can abilities... history shows this... but - his look has always been the same.. and no harm in that.

Yeah...and? Did someone here attack you for feeling this way? Or are they just stating their own opinions on the matter? Because there's no harm in the other thing, either.

Your posts read like you're a victim of some persecution over this and I haven't seen those posts.

 

[Vaibow]

Yeah...and? Did someone here attack you for feeling this way? Or are they just stating their own opinions on the matter? Because there's no harm in the other thing, either.

Your posts read like you're a victim of some persecution over this and I haven't seen those posts.

That was never the intent.. you are maybe just reading it that way.. they were to show that there are people - like me - that don’t want change and want things to stay the same and tired of being labeled as racist etc - which has already been stated by other posters - fair enough - as you said - everyone is entitled to their opinion - doesn’t mean any of us are correct.
Moving on from this now.

 

[STARMAN]

With Superman I would go the unknown route again. Still think it works the best.

 

[Vaibow]

With Superman I would go the unknown route again. Still think it works the best.

Imagine that tho - one day working odd jobs... dreaming of that one break out role and then boom - it’s handed to you and you are superman - like Henry, you could easily devote your life to it for 10-15 years and have a great career based off it

 

[Assassin32]

I hear you - but as another poster eloquently stated - there is this misconception or agenda with some people that if you don’t embrace a particular change - like skin colour etc - then you are deemed racist. Anyways - it’s been perfectly explained and my feeling is such that characteristics can change, as can abilities... history shows this... but - his look has always been the same.. and no harm in that.

I don't think anyone was trying to argue that there is harm in having a white-skinned Superman. If you believe that, you are missing the point--or ignoring it. Certainly, race matters when it comes to Superman in the same way it matters for the Black Panther. Everyone agrees that Black Panther must remain African; if that were to change, so would everything that makes him the provocative and engaging character we know. By that same token, Superman must maintain his racial identity, and he is Kryptonian. So, I ask you, why should Kryptonians have white skin? They certainly don't need to. And, considering that Superman exists and operates in America, wouldn't he be a more provocative and engaging character if he had darker skin? Wouldn't the character benefit from that complexity? Fans and artists alike often lament that he is too powerful, that the stakes are difficult to raise because he is, essentially, a god. So, wouldn't grappling with an obstacle like skin color prejudice be relevant to the bastion of Truth, Justice, and the American Way?

And as for your claim that "his look has always been the same":

 

[Vaibow]

I don't think anyone was trying to argue that there is harm in having a white-skinned Superman. If you believe that, you are missing the point--or ignoring it. Certainly, race matters when it comes to Superman in the same way it matters for the Black Panther. Everyone agrees that Black Panther must remain African; if that were to change, so would everything that makes him the provocative and engaging character we know. By that same token, Superman must maintain his racial identity, and he is Kryptonian. So, I ask you, why should Kryptonians have white skin? They certainly don't need to. And, considering that Superman exists and operates in America, wouldn't he be a more provocative and engaging character if he had darker skin? Wouldn't the character benefit from that complexity? Fans and artists alike often lament that he is too powerful, that the stakes are difficult to raise because he is, essentially, a god. So, wouldn't grappling with an obstacle like skin color prejudice be relevant to the bastion of Truth, Justice, and the American Way?

And as for your claim that "his look has always been the same":

Nope.. I never said people were saying that - but people who want to make you..... you know what, I don’t care much for this conversation, I don’t have time to read your large reply to statment which has been derailed - I simply stated there are some people who like to play the higher moral ground and make others feel bad for not being seen as progessive enough for not advocating a black or Asian superman - I never said it was wrong I just said I felt superman should stay white and there is no harm or alteria motive in that - I am moving on from this

 

[THORin]

ISo, I ask you, why should Kryptonians have white skin? They certainly don't need to. And, considering that Superman exists and operates in America, wouldn't he be a more provocative and engaging character if he had darker skin? Wouldn't the character benefit from that complexity? Fans and artists alike often lament that he is too powerful, that the stakes are difficult to raise because he is, essentially, a god. So, wouldn't grappling with an obstacle like skin color prejudice be relevant to the bastion of Truth, Justice, and the American Way?

Great point! I was already won over by the idea of Michael B. Jordan as Superman long ago, but this solidifies it for me. I've got no problems with black Superman, white Superman, green Superman, whatever color. Just so long as they change his outfit.

 

[Assassin32]

Nope.. I never said people were saying that - but people who want to make you..... you know what, I don’t care much for this conversation, I don’t have time to read your large reply to statment which has been derailed - I simply stated there are some people who like to play the higher moral ground and make others feel bad for not being seen as progessive enough for not advocating a black or Asian superman - I never said it was wrong I just said I felt superman should stay white and there is no harm or alteria motive in that - I am moving on from this

You have time for what you are willing to make time for. You concede. I accept your concession.

 

[Assassin32]

Great point! I was already won over by the idea of Michael B. Jordan as Superman long ago, but this solidifies it for me. I've got no problems with black Superman, white Superman, green Superman, whatever color. Just so long as they change his outfit.

Ideally, I'd cast an ethnically ambiguous actor as Superman. I wouldn't want him pinned down by a definitive association to any real-world racial group; he can and should be a powerful avatar for us all. This idea that Superman should "stay white" is rooted in A) prejudice or B) resistance to change. And I have no respect for either, especially considering the idea is now hamstringing the character.

I mean, just try saying it out loud: "Superman should stay white." My God.

 

[Vaibow]

You have time for what you are willing to make time for. You concede. I accept your concession.

If it helps you sleep at night!!

Enjoy the weekend

 

[Vaibow]

Great point! I was already won over by the idea of Michael B. Jordan as Superman long ago, but this solidifies it for me. I've got no problems with black Superman, white Superman, green Superman, whatever color. Just so long as they change his outfit.

Nooooo - the outfit is just fine - MBJ has a great physique for the suit.. the shoulders under the red cape would look cool!
Imagine his hair In the style it was in black panther - now have him as a clone of superman and lex Luthor - let’s say lex was Denzil or Andre Baugher - that would be one impressive looking Kon El

 

[David H.]

Ya’ll more readily fan cast black actors as Luthor than Superman.

 

[Vaibow]

Ya’ll more readily fan cast black actors as Luthor than Superman.

Growing up with superman the animated series... Andre B or Denzil would nail that interpretation which I loved, although I don’t remember the heritage being discussed, he didn’t look Caucasian to me!
Let’s not turn this into something it’s not!!