The Joker Thread - Part 1

[Wheels]

Joaquin gave a great performance. He's a superb actor. But Arthur Fleck is not the Joker. He's a generic mad man who put on clown makeup to sell more tickets to a movie no one would have seen otherwise.

He's as much a version of The Joker as any other one. Too many takes to count.

 

[CJ]

Some of you don’t understand how special the Joker movie was. 1B and a best actor win. You don’t just recast, you do everything you can to keep that same actor.

If they use Joaquin, suddenly Batman 2 or 3 becomes a crossover event instead of another Batman/Joker movie. Joaquin Joker in Reeves Batman = more $$$. And $$$ is the language of the studios.

I still can't picture Phoenix's take on Joker actually being a formidable foe to Batman but I get your point and agree with you.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'd prefer it to be something less obligatory (because he's Joker!) and more creative, fresh. Basic confrontation was done twice. We also have an experimental solo now. It needs to be something else. I'd want Harley and Joker done justice (like Arkham centered story with Harley helping Joker escape), but I feel this idea was botched by SS and BoP.

There are a few things with Joker that they still haven’t done.

The events of The Killing Joke and Death in the Family come to mind. I’d love a film that took influence from Natural Born Killers with its depiction of Joker and Harley. A Batman vs Joker movie set within Arkham would be incredible. It’s likely off the table now, but Joker interacting with the greater DCU would’ve been interesting. I’d have liked to see Joker interacting with Superman or with Luthor as a member of the Legion of Doom.

 

[hellblazer103]

But there are also elements to his characterization that are closer to the source material than Nicholson or Ledger or Leto.

please elaborate? To this day I'd say Ledger's was the most accurate to the spirit of the character yet.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I don’t know why people say that JOKER is Joker in name only. The climax of the film “you get what ya f-ing deserve!” is straight out of The Dark Knight Returns.

Also, I want to see Joker wreaking havoc on the Batfamily. It does seem unlikely that we will get to see Jason Todd within the confines of an early days Batman trilogy though.

I hope we get some clarification about this character soon. Because right now there are 3 separate continuities (The Batman, Harley Quinn, JOKER) that all need Joker.

 

[Invader Joker]

The BoP continuity is dead, don't worry about it.

 

[BattleAngel]

The BoP continuity is dead, don't worry about it.

I deeply enjoyed BoP, but yeah, there’s no way that continuity is going anywhere. I’m frankly kind of shocked The Suicide Squad is even happening.

 

[Wheels]

I deeply enjoyed BoP, but yeah, there’s no way that continuity is going anywhere. I’m frankly kind of shocked The Suicide Squad is even happening.

The original made money. Not that hard to figure out really.

 

[Rorschach2012]

The BoP continuity is dead, don't worry about it.

No it’s not. It exists within the DCEU and is being continued with WW84, Aquaman 2, Shazam 2, Black Adam, Flashpoint and The Suicide Squad.

I think they’re just going to ignore things that didn’t work, or use Flashpoint to rearrange the series.

The Batman can exist on its own, while the DCEU can continue with a different, older Batman that is used sparingly in team up films.

 

[The Guard]

I think I've said this before...the JOKER franchise can be a bunch of unreliable narrator origin stuff...and the Joker is teased in this franchise in the background, and when he shows up, he's played by Phoenix, with no hints at his true origin/history prior to the film.

 

[TheGuy]

Ledger is BY FAR the most accurate Joker in terms of personality and conflict with Batman. Nicholson and Leto are Joker in name but less so with their personality because they are more about themselves than as a figure against Batman.

Most accurate Joker (personality):
1. Ledger
2. Romero
3. Phoenix
4. Nicholson
5. Leto

 

[shauner111]

Phoenix had the flamboyance and was more of a clown than Ledger or Leto (especially). Ledger is still the best but that’s because he was already fully formed from the first scene, and he had a Batman to go up against.

 

[AndyTrevino]

There are a few things with Joker that they still haven’t done.

The events of The Killing Joke and Death in the Family come to mind. I’d love a film that took influence from Natural Born Killers with its depiction of Joker and Harley. A Batman vs Joker movie set within Arkham would be incredible. It’s likely off the table now, but Joker interacting with the greater DCU would’ve been interesting. I’d have liked to see Joker interacting with Superman or with Luthor as a member of the Legion of Doom.

IMHO we REALLY don't need any more of that Bonnie and Clyde-type BS with Joker and Harley.

 

[shauner111]

I loved BoP and i wouldn’t mind seeing more movies with Margot’s Harley Quinn assembling a different girl gang each time. Or just continue with the same Birds. I’d rather see that than Harley and Joker. Or Harley in a Batman movie.

 

[Boom]

 

[Kane52630]

Where's that from?

 

[Boom]

It's the body double from the blink-and-you'll-miss-it shot of Joker in BoP.

 

[Jig96v]

Treat Joker 2019 as it should be treated. The movie wants you to question what ACTUALLY happened. The fact that you guys are taking the events of the film so literally is baffling. Pick and choose elements of that film that actually happened and then move on with Joaquin as a villain in a Reeves Batman film.

If we see Joaquin in a Batman film, it wouldn’t be from his point of view so we’d get to see a more realistic idea of who the character is. Perhaps the sympathetic nature of the character is just the way the character sees himself, or perhaps the entirety of Joker 2019 was simply an embellished story told to Harleen Quinzel in Arkham. Maybe the REAL Joker is far more ruthless and sinister.

So he just imagined visiting little Bruce and Alfred. And there was never a Bruce Wayne? Thomas never told him to stay away from his son? Thomas was never around 50 years old? So you’d have to say the entire movie didn’t really happen, and the final scene is the Joker in Arkham Asylum in a different decade. I’m actually cool with that. Either he made it up as a good story to tell, and that’s why he’s laughing at the end “what’s so funny?...You wouldn’t get it”. Or he’s so delusional that he believes that to be his origin story. But I like the “if i’m going to have a back story, I prefer it to be multiple choice” aspect of the character. So the first option would be better for me.

If you want Phoenix to play a different version of the character, as well as discredit the events of his own film, then what's the point? At that point it's not the performance that made $1B, you're starting from scratch, so you might as well cast someone that doesn't require such tiresome mental gymnastics to make it work.

As uninspired as it is ("Scary clown should play supervillain clown!"), Bill Skarsgård is still the best idea I've seen so far:

 

[shauner111]

He’s awful as Pennywise so no to that.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I do like him and I like his Pennywise when he isn't doing weird CGI screaming and I do think he'd be good in the role, but come on dude. No.

 

[Boom]

I legit only like him as Pennywise in the opening scene with Georgie.

 

[Eddie Dean]

He's good in the scene of Part Two with the little girl under the bleachers, but literally anyone else could be Pennywise during the rest of the film.

 

[Jig96v]

I do like him and I like his Pennywise when he isn't doing weird CGI screaming and I do think he'd be good in the role, but come on dude. No.

???

 

[Boom]

???

Fancasting Skarsgard as The Joker because he had played another iconic clown character is like people fancasting actors for Lex Luthor just because they had previously played bald characters.

 

[Eddie Dean]

I just don't think casting the evil clown as the evil clown would be an exciting choice!