Justice League The Joss Whedon Thread

[Consona]

I remember back in the day people despising the possibility of Whedon getting directing credit. Now it seems as though people in here are giving him as much credit as possible. Strange, very strange.

He redone so much in this movie it's really weird he did not get the directing credit.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Btw, do you know how I realized it was Whedon's scene right away? t: That weird Batman backflip. Snyder's action is always perfect in these regards. This felt off. But otherwise, very Snyderish, I agree.

The tip-off that it was Whedon was when he zoomed in when Batman and the Parademon started punching each other till you couldn't see anything. Wanna know how I know? Re-watch how he shot Black Widow vs Hawkeye and Thor vs Loki in the first Avengers. Horrible shots.

 

[Cobblepot]

Btw, do you know how I realized it was Whedon's scene right away? t: That weird Batman backflip. Snyder's action is always perfect in these regards. This felt off. But otherwise, very Snyderish, I agree.

And the fact the Batman didn't punch the burglar out. Zack's Batman would have punched his lights out. Whedon's Batman just let him walk...makes no sense.

Also that Superman cellphone scene, why not film Superman from the back? Crouching and have a converstation with those boys chearing and flying off.

The worst CGI in the movie was the mini Alfred ontop of the hangar bay that submerges from the lake.
It was Whedon's because the hangar wasn't supposed to be underground.

 

[spider-neil]

Normally you are hard pressed to spot the differences when a new director steps in. Like when Edgar Wright left Ant-Man but you can almost see EXACTLY which parts are Sndyer and which parts are Whedon. I am so sick of Whedon it's untrue. He ruined Age of Ultron with a jokey murder robot. Way to utterly remove the tension, Whedon. And I'm dropping this right here, right now, Avengers (the first one) is hilariously overrated. Winter Soldier and Civil War are MILES better with regards to plot, tone, action, and depth. Marvel is well rid of Whedon.

 

[markjoedelonge]

Normally you are hard pressed to spot the differences when a new director steps in. Like when Edgar Wright left Ant-Man but you can almost see EXACTLY which parts are Sndyer and which parts are Whedon. I am so sick of Whedon it's untrue. He ruined Age of Ultron with a jokey murder robot, why too utterly remove the tension. And I'm dropping this right here, right now, Avengers (the first one) is hilariously overrated. Winter Soldier and Civil War are MILES better with regards to plot, tone, action, and depth. Marvel is well rid of Whedon.

The MCU movies still have this problem of humour undercutting tension. To attribute it all to Whedon is really unfair. Whedon brought a lot of fantastic stuff to Marvel and to JL.

 

[JOE]

Normally you are hard pressed to spot the differences when a new director steps in. Like when Edgar Wright left Ant-Man but you can almost see EXACTLY which parts are Sndyer and which parts are Whedon. I am so sick of Whedon it's untrue. He ruined Age of Ultron with a jokey murder robot, why too utterly remove the tension. And I'm dropping this right here, right now, Avengers (the first one) is hilariously overrated. Winter Soldier and Civil War are MILES better with regards to plot, tone, action, and depth. Marvel is well rid of Whedon.

That's why the Russos were given the keys to Marvel. If DC were ever to get a hold of them, I'd pay them whatever they wanted to start a new DC Universe. Not sure what their upcoming commitments are outside of Avengers 4.

 

[Consona]

And I'm dropping this right here, right now, Avengers (the first one) is hilariously overrated. Winter Soldier and Civil War are MILES better with regards to plot, tone, action, and depth. Marvel is well rid of Whedon.

I'm saying it from the minute I saw Avegners, it was one of the most painful cinematic experiences I've ever had. Everybody was like "this is the best CBM ever" and I was like "yaaay"... 30 minutes in and I wanted to kill myself already, it was so boring, with all that hype I was expecting something like TDK level of awesome, did not happen, not even close.

Marvel is well rid of Whedon.

On the other hand I thought AoU was much better than Avengers and had some very good moments.

 

[Mani-Man]

The thing with Whedon and also Snyder is that they do have Talent.
They absolutly know what they are doing...but not on all accounts.

Whedon has lost a lot of his edge in terms of writing, he has a weird sense of humour and cant seem to be able to build up tension.
Snyder is a visual genius, but he also cant write characters.

Both are good on certain aspects, but they should never ever be given full control over anything.
Keep both of them in line and let them do what they are good in and you have a absolutly good cinematic ride.

 

[Consona]

That's why the Russos were given the keys to Marvel. If DC were ever to get a hold of them, I'd pay them whatever they wanted to start a new DC Universe. Not sure what their upcoming commitments are outside of Avengers 4.

**** I hope Feige will let them do what they want with IW and don't push them into his beloved "four-quadrant great fun" territory.

 

[FunkMiller]

**** I hope Feige will let them do what they want with IW and don't push them into his beloved "four-quadrant great fun" territory.

I get the impression they’ve been given a bit more freedom, given how this is going to be effectively the end of the MCU as we’ve known it after IW and A4

 

[Consona]

I get the impression they’ve been given a bit more freedom, given how this is going to be effectively the end of the MCU as we’ve known it after IW and A4

One can only hope. I have high hope for that movie even though I was disgruntled so much by their "phenomenal" films.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Normally you are hard pressed to spot the differences when a new director steps in. Like when Edgar Wright left Ant-Man but you can almost see EXACTLY which parts are Sndyer and which parts are Whedon.

I'm pretty sure that Wright did not start principal photography on Ant-Man...He left a month out from the start date I believe. Snyder pretty much completed his own cut of JL.

I am so sick of Whedon it's untrue. He ruined Age of Ultron with a jokey murder robot, why too utterly remove the tension. And I'm dropping this right here, right now, Avengers (the first one) is hilariously overrated. Winter Soldier and Civil War are MILES better with regards to plot, tone, action, and depth. Marvel is well rid of Whedon.

The first Avengers is still great, pretty much a perfect blockbuster for all ages.

 

[spider-neil]

That's why the Russos were given the keys to Marvel. If DC were ever to get a hold of them, I'd pay them whatever they wanted to start a new DC Universe. Not sure what their upcoming commitments are outside of Avengers 4.

Imagine if the Russo's had the keys to the DCEU. Imagine if the drama and tension of WS and CW were applied to BvS and JL. Alright, I'll admit it, Synder has a better eye for visuals but at this moment in time, I'm more interested in characters than eye candy.

 

[spider-neil]

I'm saying it from the minute I saw Avegners, it was one of the most painful cinematic experiences I've ever had. Everybody was like "this is the best CBM ever" and I was like "yaaay"... 30 minutes in and I wanted to kill myself already, it was so boring, with all that hype I was expecting something like TDK level of awesome, did not happen, not even close.

For me, (and this is just my opinion) the only movie Marvel has made that can hold a candle to TDK is Winter Solider. The movie has action, drama, stakes, there are consequences. The Avengers isn't in my top 5 Marvel movies. I can name five better Marvel movies and why they are better.

I applaud Whedon for doing right by the Avengers when as we've seen it could have gone horribly wrong but the Russo are real kings and that's why Marvel wasn't arsed when Whedon left. If they were bothered they would have backed up the money truck like they did for Downey.

 

[spider-neil]

I'm pretty sure that Wright did not start principal photography on Ant-Man...He left a month out from the start date I believe. Snyder pretty much completed his own cut of JL.



The first Avengers is still great, pretty much a perfect blockbuster for all ages.

It's decent and no more. I couldn't care less it's the 'first to join characters from different movie' (factual incorrect as the Universal monster movies got there first). All I care about is good movies and Avengers is popcorn fluff and nothing more. It isn't actually 'ABOUT' anything. And before someone chimes in with 'it doesn't 'have' to be about anything', the best movies are ALWAYS about something.

 

[metaphysician]

Yes, I'd say so. BvS was a turd, and there's no reason to expect that a pure Snyder Justice League wouldn't have followed along the same lines. It would probably have been a bit better, just because it would have paid some things off, but the box office would still have been as bas as it is - because, as I keep saying until I'm blue in the face - people hated BvS and weren't prepared to come out for Justice League.

I don't know about "paying off", since the original plan was a two part movie. I suspect the first of those would *still* have suffered from a bad case of "But in the next movie, it will all be good!" Especially if Superman were dead/evil for the whole movie, as I suspect would have been the case.

 

[Arachnerd]

I don't know about "paying off", since the original plan was a two part movie. I suspect the first of those would *still* have suffered from a bad case of "But in the next movie, it will all be good!" Especially if Superman were dead/evil for the whole movie, as I suspect would have been the case.

Even though there's nothing to indicate such a thing, but sure, whatever it takes to twist your argument.

 

[Matt]

Even though there's nothing to indicate such a thing, but sure, whatever it takes to twist your argument.

Well, there was the entire foreshadowing of it in BvS. You know, the scene with Batman fighting an evil army of Parademons and militaristic humans who worship the evil Superman who then kills Bruce. There's also the scene of Flash traveling back in time to warn Bruce about an evil Superman.

So, either we accept that Snyder threw those scenes in completely randomly (and considering how much was cut from BvS, that seems highly unlikely as if the scenes existed for no reason they would've been cut) or evil Superman was part of his plan at some point.

So yeah, its pretty intellectually dishonest to say there is no indication that Snyder ever intended to include an evil Superman allied with Darkseid when BvS pretty clearly foreshadows it. Hell, foreshadow isn't even the right word. Foreshadowing is a subtle hint. BvS previewed it.

 

[metaphysician]

Looks like the Kryptonian dentist left thee cotton rolls in his mouth...t:

Is this seriously the best these VFX houses can do? They have full scans of these actors heads doing every imaginal expression in every type of lighting...
From what I read, the "waxed" his stash up so his lips could be seen so whats the deal with the teeth? The entire mouth should be his... not cg...

Its probably the best they could do, given the time and budget they had to work with.

 

[Guts]

Except I'm pretty sure we already know that Superman would have only been psycho for the same amount of time as the theatrical version.

 

[Matt]

Except I'm pretty sure we already know that Superman would have only been psycho for the same amount of time as the theatrical version.

Come on, man. A briefly disoriented Superman is very different from what was foreshadowed in BvS.

 

[Lily Adler]

I wonder if disoriented Superman was originally supposed to be evil Superman... Or it was a compromise.

 

[Matt]

I wonder if disoriented Superman was originally supposed to be evil Superman... Or it was a compromise.

Its hard to say how disoriented Superman came about. I think the fact that disoirented Superman was part of the equation at all is indicative that SOMEONE, be it Snyder, Whedon, WB, or whomever, wanted Superman to fight the rest of the League at some point. My guess is that was one of the few things all parties agreed on. Whedon loves hero vs hero scenes (I mean, there are about 3 or 4 in the two Avenger movies). Snyder clearly wanted an evil Superman/Superman who was controlled by Darkseid at some point (which would've resulted in him fighting the League). And I am sure WB was just like "that sounds like a good action scene...sure."

 

[Guts]

Come on, man. A briefly disoriented Superman is very different from what was foreshadowed in BvS.

What I mean is that there is footage that Snyder had shot for the Clark and Lois farm scene and Zack shot his own version of the scene where the League resurrects him and he fights them.

Shirtless Cavill and Flash were in the bts footage that Snyder released last year. So the idea for the League to resurrect Superman and then he fights the League wasn't Whedon's. So it's not like he was alive the majority of the movie and working for Steppenwolf.

 

[idiot09]

Even though there's nothing to indicate such a thing, but sure, whatever it takes to twist your argument.

Yep, and even if people say that was hinted at with BvS, they would be wrong, because you dont give away a major plot twist and element like that. What it was is an impressionistic view of a possible apocalyptic future THAT WOULD have happened if Flash didnt go back in time to send the warning. Its classic scifi 101. It makes no storytelling sense for the same thing to happen again in the present timeline, because it makes Flash coming back in time meaningless. Flash telling Bruce lois is the key, basically snaps Superman back to reality, and prevents the Knightmare scenario from playing out. Also spurs Bruce on to create the league("Find us Bruce, you have to find us").

And we have heard from reliable people that Superman was not evil in Snyder's cut either. He fought vs the league, went back to the farm, found himself, and then fought with the league against Steppenwolf.