Justice League The Joss Whedon Thread

[harlequinade]

I still think the guy must have done something either shady or unpleasant or there were some behind the scenes shouting matches and God knows what and between who. The cast completely ignoring him on every. single. occasion. isn't just about their protest against WB's decision to mess up Snyder's work. This isn't Whedon's fault, if he was brought in to do something and did it, the cast would have no reason to hold it against the guy and personally blame him and dislike him. So he must have done something to these people whom I noticed, other than Affleck, to be really gracious and thoughtful towards cast and crew.

It's like on the camp when they fire cool guy leading it, bring in a new one and he is an *******

 

[Arachnerd]

io9, uh, you might want to delete those Superman "leaks". ^^'

 

[Reel-Man]

You can't blame Whedon for the moustache and bad CGI. WB decided to do extensive reshoots and rush everything rather than delaying the release date to ensure the film was up to par. He did what he could in the short amount of time given. We can't blame Whedon or Snyder for most of what's wrong in this film. It's all on WB for meddling and not having a focused vision for the DCEU.

While I agree with the above, It was Joss' scene that he wrote and therefor needed to film. So that's on him. Same with the other inserts which most if not all were useless.

 

[idiot09]

While I agree with the above, It was Joss' scene that he wrote and therefor needed to film. So that's on him. Same with the other inserts which most if not all were useless.

Yeah I dont fault him for the awful CGI. I fault them for reshooting nearly all the damn scenes, just to add horrible quips. If they had been more judicious with which scene to reshoot/add, they would have required less work and it wouldnt have been so noticeable and the vfx team wouldnt have been stretched so thin.

 

[Cobblepot]

I fully blame Whedon (and WB) for the failure of JL. The parts I liked in the film were done by Snyder. Other parts I loved were only in the trailers. It feels like Snyder would have delivered like he once did with Watchmen or 300.

Whedon re-shot almost every Superman in costume set. I can't believe that was needed.
Whedon tried to make this a buddy comedy movie.
He also added the cellphone scene, Superman's CGI mustache is the worst there. The scene wasn't even needed in the movie, anyone with a sensible mind would have left that out. It immediatley set the tone for this Playstation 1 trailer.

Superman made me think of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMVW_AEevYI
(a dutch tv show in the eighties)

 

[JOE]

I fully blame Whedon (and WB) for the failure of JL. The parts I liked in the film were done by Snyder. Other parts I loved were only in the trailers. It feels like Snyder would have delivered like he once did with Watchmen or 300.

Whedon re-shot almost every Superman in costume set. I can't believe that was needed.
Whedon tried to make this a buddy comedy movie.

If the rumors were true that Snyder's version was "unwatchable" how can you blame Whedon for being hired to go in and make changes? WB was the one that made the decision to change what Snyder did, how is that Whedon's fault?

Superman was also a common positive thing about JL in many reviews, whereas previous movies he definitely was not. Maybe Whedon made the movie better? Could the argument not be made? I guess there's two sides to every coin.

 

[idiot09]

If the rumors were true that Snyder's version was "unwatchable"

Thats the thing. Most of us dont trust that rumor either. Many of the Snyder scenes in JL are great. That whole argument based on the fact that Whedon improved the film which wasn't working. WB not liking Snyder's first cut != the first cut was bad. WB had chopped up/mutilated other good films before too.

 

[JOE]

Thats the thing. Most of us dont trust that rumor either. Many of the Snyder scenes in JL are great. That whole argument based on the fact that Whedon improved the film which wasn't working. WB not liking Snyder's first cut != the first cut was bad. WB had chopped up/mutilated other good films before too.

WB not liking Snyder's first cut may not mean the first cut was bad, but it sure as hell doesn't mean it was good.

I think WB was stuck with Snyder as they already gave him the keys to JL before BvS had come out. That's on WB, and they're suffering because of it.

 

[idiot09]

WB not liking Snyder's first cut may not mean the first cut was bad, but it sure as hell doesn't mean it was good.

I think WB was stuck with Snyder as they already gave him the keys to JL before BvS had come out. That's on WB, and they're suffering because of it.

Nah.

They are suffering all right. But for very different reasons. The movie we got is a studio mandated film by committee, and is by no means Snyder's movie.

This is completely on WB. But feel free to disagree.

 

[Boom]

If Whedon's contributions to the film meant adding humor to it, then his involvement was an abject failure. My theater was stone silent throughout the film save for the one gag between Flash and Superman. The humor was tone-deaf at best and juvenile at worst. I felt embarrassed by how not-funny it was.

 

[JOE]

Nah.

They are suffering all right. But for very different reasons. The movie we got is a studio mandated film by committee, and is by no means Snyder's movie.

This is completely on WB. But feel free to disagree.

Feels like every time a Snyder movie is released he didn't get to show his true vision. Whether it's the studio coming in and editing or whatever else the excuses are for that week. I don't think he's a good director, and it's a shame WB put most of their eggs in one basket.

 

[Cobblepot]

If Whedon's contributions to the film meant adding humor to it, then his involvement was an abject failure. My theater was stone silent throughout the film save for the one gag between Flash and Superman. The humor was tone-deaf at best and juvenile at worst. I felt embarrassed by how not-funny it was.

Exactly!and the Superman watching Flash in the speedforce was Snyders scene.

If the rumors were true that Snyder's version was "unwatchable" how can you blame Whedon for being hired to go in and make changes? WB was the one that made the decision to change what Snyder did, how is that Whedon's fault?

Superman was also a common positive thing about JL in many reviews, whereas previous movies he definitely was not. Maybe Whedon made the movie better? Could the argument not be made? I guess there's two sides to every coin.

I can't be sure though but to me, the best scenes in the movie were Snyders (Amazons fight, Superman vs JL etc). And the scenes cut from the movie (that could be seen in trailers) showed a lot of promise.
Supposedly Cyborg was the heart of the film, the glue that showed us how Steppenwolf came to be and what the MB's truly are. I missed that in the movie. Now Steppenwolf is just there.

Whedon also made Flash an idiot with only oneliners and bad jokes.

 

[JOE]

If Whedon's contributions to the film meant adding humor to it, then his involvement was an abject failure. My theater was stone silent throughout the film save for the one gag between Flash and Superman. The humor was tone-deaf at best and juvenile at worst. I felt embarrassed by how not-funny it was.

The tone of the Justice League movie was set in the very first trailer, before Whedon came along.

Barry's first scene with Bruce sitting in his "second favorite chair"... That was Snyder's.

Bruce and Diana's dialogue about Aquaman, "he said no"... Snyder's.

"I hear you can talk to fish." Snyder's as well.

I'm with you on hearing crickets in the theatre for certain parts, but let's not be so naive that we blame Joss for all the humor that didn't land.

 

[Flint Marko]

There were some jokes that didn't work. Okay, a lot of jokes that didn't work particularly the "thirsty" joke about Lois *shudders*

However... I liked watching this team interact and I think it's safe to credit that to Whedon.

 

[Rorschach2012]

It's funny how NOT funny it was when it tried so hard

There were two funny moments. When Superman saw the Flash, and when Aquaman had the lasso

 

[JOE]

There were some jokes that didn't work. Okay, a lot of jokes that didn't work particularly the "thirsty" joke about Lois *shudders*

However... I liked watching this team interact and I think it's safe to credit that to Whedon.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Going back to the critics, that's the one thing they praised in this movie. The team, the league. That's all Whedon yet somehow he ruined the movie. It's sad actually. I wonder how awful the film would have been had he said no.

 

[Mysteryman]

The tone of the Justice League movie was set in the very first trailer, before Whedon came along.

Barry's first scene with Bruce sitting in his "second favorite chair"... That was Snyder's.

Bruce and Diana's dialogue about Aquaman, "he said no"... Snyder's.

"I hear you can talk to fish." Snyder's as well.

I'm with you on hearing crickets in the theatre for certain parts, but let's not be so naive that we blame Joss for all the humor that didn't land.

Yesterday on Collider Heroes, Jon Schnepp Robert Meyer Burnett Gave their Spoiler review of JL.
Burnett said that the Aquaman sitting on the lasso scene was obviously directed by Whedon.
Schnepp corrected him and said that it was actually a Snyder scene.
I don't know how he knows that, but it is interesting if true.

 

[C. Lee]

So....apparently many think that Whedon should have turned down the job. I mean....so many say - "It was Whedon's fault...."......uhhh, in my view.....it is the fault of the guy in charge who said get rid of this stuff and write/film some new replacement stuff. Whedon just did what he was contracted to do. As far as we are aware....Whedon didn't suddenly become the head of the WB and decide to take over JL.

 

[Reel-Man]

So....apparently many think that Whedon should have turned down the job. I mean....so many say - "It was Whedon's fault...."......uhhh, in my view.....it is the fault of the guy in charge who said get rid of this stuff and write/film some new replacement stuff. Whedon just did what he was contracted to do. As far as we are aware....Whedon didn't suddenly become the head of the WB and decide to take over JL.

In hindsight, he absolutely should have. I 110% agree that WB needs to get the blame for chopping this up and making a mess of it. Having said that, the sex jokes and stupid inserts were still Joss. He's not entirely blameless and is not going to get a free pass.

 

[_Superman_]

So....apparently many think that Whedon should have turned down the job. I mean....so many say - "It was Whedon's fault...."......uhhh, in my view.....it is the fault of the guy in charge who said get rid of this stuff and write/film some new replacement stuff. Whedon just did what he was contracted to do. As far as we are aware....Whedon didn't suddenly become the head of the WB and decide to take over JL.

In hindsight, he absolutely should have. I 110% agree that WB needs to get the blame for chopping this up and making a mess of it. Having said that, the sex jokes and stupid inserts were still Joss. He's not entirely blameless and is not going to get a free pass.

Agreed.


On a side note this is twice now I have agreed with C. Lee in one day. I must be going soft now.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

So....apparently many think that Whedon should have turned down the job. I mean....so many say - "It was Whedon's fault...."......uhhh, in my view.....it is the fault of the guy in charge who said get rid of this stuff and write/film some new replacement stuff. Whedon just did what he was contracted to do. As far as we are aware....Whedon didn't suddenly become the head of the WB and decide to take over JL.

Whedon was hailed a savior the moment it was announced that he's stepping in to finish the movie. "You can disagree all you like Snyder bros, but Whedon is the director now!" , "OMG, my excitement just went through the roof!" etc. Did their best to take any credit away from Snyder. Unfortunately for them, you can tell apart every new and reshot scene and the majority of them are horrendous. So if he was going to take all the credit if this turned out to be "RT Fresh", he sure as hell is taking blame for final product as well.

 

[_Superman_]

Whedon was hailed a savior the moment it was announced that he's stepping in to finish the movie. "You can disagree all you like Snyder bros, but Whedon is the director now!" , "OMG, my excitement just went through the roof!" etc. Did their best to take any credit away from Snyder. Unfortunately for them, you can tell apart every new and reshot scene and the majority of them are horrendous. So if he was going to take all the credit if this turned out to be "RT Fresh", he sure as hell is taking blame for final product as well.

Got that right all though you have some people who say all the good parts were from Joss.

 

[chintai80]

yea, the problem is the WB guys on top (tsujihara, nelson, etc) who made the bad decisions that trickle down.

whedon was just hired to do a job - and at really last minute too.
i think the character moments he brought were good.

but i wasn't a fan of the quips and jokes in the final battle - i wasn't really a fan of the whole final battle in fact.

if whedon had more prep time - i'm sure lot of these problems would've been ironed out - but he wasn't allowed that. blame WB top mgmt for that.

some of my favorite moments of the movie are probably snyder's stuff though.

 

[Cobblepot]

So....apparently many think that Whedon should have turned down the job. I mean....so many say - "It was Whedon's fault...."......uhhh, in my view.....it is the fault of the guy in charge who said get rid of this stuff and write/film some new replacement stuff. Whedon just did what he was contracted to do. As far as we are aware....Whedon didn't suddenly become the head of the WB and decide to take over JL.

No, but he didn't need to redo more than half the film making it a hackjob and knowing that 3,5 months wasn't enough for the heavy CGI work needed on Superman. He didn't just write or film some new replacement stuff he completely changed the movie with only a few months before it's release.

 

[_Superman_]

No, but he didn't need to redo more than half the film making it a hackjob and knowing that 3,5 months wasn't enough for the heavy CGI work needed on Superman. He didn't just write or film some new replacement stuff he completely changed the movie with only a few months before it's release.

The Superman stuff didn't need to be redone at all given that reports have it Snyder did the exact same thing with Superman only that it was just a little longer. They redid the Superman stuff to have a smile on his face throughout the whole entire movie like he was the Joker or something.