The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Boy Scout]

As The Guard said...

I was speaking generally. My words apply to Doctor Strange as much as they do Superman.

Are the villains supposed to stop and wait for the heroes to save individuals ?

Can the hero not try to stop the villain and help people at the same time?

That's a good way of raising the stakes, by the way. Having the hero almost lose because they're so busy trying to make sure nobody does.

 

[Tra-El]

^You'd still find yourself back at square one, as Clark did in MoS. But yes, best to not get the thread locked.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

Can the hero not try to stop the villain and help people at the same time?

That's a good way of raising the stakes, by the way. Having the hero almost lose because they're so busy trying to make sure nobody does.

definitely. and that's why i loved the decision zod ultimately left clark with in mos

 

[Legendver2]

For all this talk of no stakes in the barren wasteland, you guys do realize that at least one battle will take place in the heart of Metropolis right? I mean it's in the trailer.

 

[Boy Scout]

^You'd still find yourself back at square one, as Clark did in MoS. But yes, best to not get the thread locked.

Well, again, I'm speaking generally. This discussion can be and probably is relevant to JL.

Not sure what you mean by finding yourself at square one.

definitely. and that's why i loved the decision zod ultimately left clark with in mos

The idea was fine, the execution (no pun intended) was just sloppy.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

@legend yep. and as someone pointed out, we've already seen vic stone save someone during it, so... there ya go

 

[misslane38]

What do you guys think is happening at the memorial place....and when do you guys think Aquaman joins the battle with the league?

Are the memorial and the ship in the same general location? Did anyone ever figure out if the scout ship located in Metropolis was moved at some point, like it was there at one point in the trailer and gone in another? I wouldn't be surprised if the genesis chamber in which Lex brought Doomsday to life with Zod's corpse and where Lex communed with Steppenwolf isn't something that someone wants to use to resurrect Superman. I also wouldn't be surprised if the whole ship could be moved by Apokoliptian methods, like boom tubes, if necessary.

I think Aquaman joins up sometime before the midpoint. I'm also not sure if some of the scenes of fighting in the trailer are of the final battle. Like Man of Steel (Smallville, Metropolis) and Batman v Superman (Batman/Superman, Trinity/Doomsday), there may be two different battles in Justice League: one about mother boxes and Superman, and one with Superman to defeat Apolokips altogether. That's just a guess, though. I really have no idea.

 

[idiot09]

Rising stakes just by collateral damage in cities is cheap by now. It has been overplayed.

 

[Robin91939]

The whole collateral damage argument is such a stupid one. On every level.

Fans have posted the video from the Justice League Unlimited episode "Destroyer" that sees Superman unleash his "true power" on Darkseid, as the epitome of what they wanted to see in a Superman movie. That video shows Superman punching Darkseid through multiple, occupied Metropolis buildings.

They've posted this video for years. Then, 2013 rolls around and Zack Snyder gives them a knock-down-drag-out-superhero brawl in the streets and skies of Metropolis. Superman does just what the animated Superman does in that video -- he punches a super-powered villain through buildings.

In the real world, there are people in those building and some of the buildings fall.

That's what happens.

If you want a film with living gods fighting each other (or gods fighting an alien threat) with the entire planet at stake, but don't expect that there will be civilian casualties ... I don't know what to say.

It's the fact that people die in the fight between Superman and General Zod that ups the stakes. It's the fact that so many innocents died that makes the audience understand why Superman felt he had to take Zod's life.

The act of fighting the fight itself with the goal to save the planet is a larger act of heroism than saving one individual in the midst of the fight.

-R

 

[idiot09]

Are the memorial and the ship in the same general location? Did anyone ever figure out if the scout ship located in Metropolis was moved at some point, like it was there at one point in the trailer and gone in another? I wouldn't be surprised if the genesis chamber in which Lex brought Doomsday to life with Zod's corpse and where Lex communed with Steppenwolf isn't something that someone wants to use to resurrect Superman. I also wouldn't be surprised if the whole ship could be moved by Apokoliptian methods, like boom tubes, if necessary.

I think Aquaman joins up sometime before the midpoint. I'm also not sure if some of the scenes of fighting in the trailer are of the final battle. Like Man of Steel (Smallville, Metropolis) and Batman v Superman (Batman/Superman, Trinity/Doomsday), there may be two different battles in Justice League: one about mother boxes and Superman, and one with Superman to defeat Apolokips altogether. That's just a guess, though. I really have no idea.

Whats great about the trailer is I have no clue about the plot even after watching the trailer.

 

[Tra-El]

Well, again, I'm speaking generally. This discussion can be and probably is relevant to JL.

Not sure what you mean by finding yourself at square one.

Square one was Zod and always going to be Zod and how Superman deals with him, which all reflects back to the damage being done in the city and the human lives at stake. Attention to detail and any direction Clark choose's at that point has one end result: Zod.

 

[Limonade]

I was speaking generally. My words apply to Doctor Strange as much as they do Superman.



Can the hero not try to stop the villain and help people at the same time?

That's a good way of raising the stakes, by the way. Having the hero almost lose because they're so busy trying to make sure nobody does.

I mean they're not just any heroes. They're Superheroes.

 

[BH/HHH]

Whats great about the trailer is I have no clue about the plot even after watching the trailer.

Yes that's what I loved. All the trailer told us was Bruce and Diana were getting a team together to halt an Onvasion. No specifics other than that and that's all we need to sell the film.

 

[kguillou]

Lets be honest. People let that stuff slide in a cartoon because.....its a cartoon and we only care about if its animated well. Everyone loves that Darkseid fight or the one where Superman went ham on Shazam and demolished an entire city because it was a cartoon and it looked cool and well animated. With live movies, i think the destruction hits people on a different level thus the criticism.

Personally, I love it. I grew up on Dragonball Z, which is the grandfather of destruction porn lol

 

[Tra-El]

Trying to piece together what is actually happening in a trailer that is normally designed to act as counter storytelling always makes me want to pull my hair out of my head. There's so much that they're holding back that it's almost impossible to figure out the inner-workings of how we got to those specific shots to begin with. It's fun, but we need more. Me, personally, there's general idea's but I probably won't watch any more trailers since I want the element of surprise to kick in at the cinema.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Superman going evil would go against Terrio's view that the third movie would be the lightest one. We've already gone through the dark BvS. Him going evil would just be even darker. Besides, that alternate future in BvS seems like the fight was already lost. The place is overrun with parademons, the city's dead, and there's an omega sign on the ground and firepits. JL already subverts all of that by having the team formed.

this is the main reason, other than a fake-out, that i don't see it happening

I hope you guys are right but I also think the best course of action this time around for everyones sake is to be aware that it very well might happen. Was it not just over a year ago that we were all here saying "This thing or that thing will NEVER happen because if it does then (...) will be ruined for ever"

Then we go to the cinema or read some spoilers and lo and behold, there it is. Sometimes even twice as bad as you even dared to think about.

If they execute it good then it could work, it's not my preference but still. But for my own protection one thing I will not be doing this time around is say (...) that I don't agree with, will NEVER happen because (...)

I've been down that road and it ain't pretty XD

 

[chintai80]

I think these rocky structures are those towers they grow across the earth during the invasion:

ah cool.
that could look terrifying in live action.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The whole collateral damage argument is such a stupid one. On every level.

Fans have posted the video from the Justice League Unlimited episode "Destroyer" that sees Superman unleash his "true power" on Darkseid, as the epitome of what they wanted to see in a Superman movie. That video shows Superman punching Darkseid through multiple, occupied Metropolis buildings.

They've posted this video for years. Then, 2013 rolls around and Zack Snyder gives them a knock-down-drag-out-superhero brawl in the streets and skies of Metropolis. Superman does just what the animated Superman does in that video -- he punches a super-powered villain through buildings.

In the real world, there are people in those building and some of the buildings fall.

That's what happens.

If you want a film with living gods fighting each other (or gods fighting an alien threat) with the entire planet at stake, but don't expect that there will be civilian casualties ... I don't know what to say.

It's the fact that people die in the fight between Superman and General Zod that ups the stakes. It's the fact that so many innocents died that makes the audience understand why Superman felt he had to take Zod's life.

The act of fighting the fight itself with the goal to save the planet is a larger act of heroism than saving one individual in the midst of the fight.

-R

 

[Limonade]

Lets be honest. People let that stuff slide in a cartoon because.....its a cartoon and we only care about if its animated well. Everyone loves that Darkseid fight or the one where Superman went ham on Shazam and demolished an entire city because it was a cartoon and it looked cool and well animated. With live movies, i think the destruction hits people on a different level thus the criticism.

Personally, I love it. I grew up on Dragonball Z, which is the grandfather of destruction porn lol

Yeah and even when all of humankind is somehow wiped out. It lands on the heroes to use the dragon balls to recall all the humans back from the dead.

It's a bit of a cheat. But it's a work around in the end.

 

[Tra-El]

The whole collateral damage argument is such a stupid one. On every level.

Fans have posted the video from the Justice League Unlimited episode "Destroyer" that sees Superman unleash his "true power" on Darkseid, as the epitome of what they wanted to see in a Superman movie. That video shows Superman punching Darkseid through multiple, occupied Metropolis buildings.

They've posted this video for years. Then, 2013 rolls around and Zack Snyder gives them a knock-down-drag-out-superhero brawl in the streets and skies of Metropolis. Superman does just what the animated Superman does in that video -- he punches a super-powered villain through buildings.

In the real world, there are people in those building and some of the buildings fall.

That's what happens.

If you want a film with living gods fighting each other (or gods fighting an alien threat) with the entire planet at stake, but don't expect that there will be civilian casualties ... I don't know what to say.

It's the fact that people die in the fight between Superman and General Zod that ups the stakes. It's the fact that so many innocents died that makes the audience understand why Superman felt he had to take Zod's life.

The act of fighting the fight itself with the goal to save the planet is a larger act of heroism than saving one individual in the midst of the fight.

-R

Brilliant post, Robin. Where the hell is the "like" button when you need it?

 

[Limonade]

I hope you guys are right but I also think the best course of action this time around for everyones sake is to be aware that it very well might happen. Was it not just over a year ago that we were all here saying "This thing or that thing will NEVER happen because if it does then (...) will be ruined for ever"

Then we go to the cinema or read some spoilers and lo and behold, there it is. Sometimes even twice as bad as you even dared to think about.

If they execute it good then it could work, it's not my preference but still. But for my own protection one thing I will not be doing this time around is say (...) that I don't agree with, will NEVER happen because (...)

I've been down that road and it ain't pretty XD

Here, here! I completely agree with that sentiment as well.

I remember when those rumors, at the time prior to the movie's release, about Supe's death was circulating.

Deniers were all around the forums using logic and reason as to say why this would never happen.

And then... the film... oh man... the film! RIP Herolee's hype.

 

[Tra-El]

Lets be honest. People let that stuff slide in a cartoon because.....its a cartoon and we only care about if its animated well. Everyone loves that Darkseid fight or the one where Superman went ham on Shazam and demolished an entire city because it was a cartoon and it looked cool and well animated. With live movies, i think the destruction hits people on a different level thus the criticism.

Waitaminute,waitaminute. I thought Snyder's use of CG during that Metropolis fight made the city look like a cartoon/video game? Then what's the beef? Hmm. The plot thickens.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

City battles make it feel real and cool imo. Animated series always did that. They can work it in this! It just feels more exciting when civilians and the world is involved and it looks real. Rather than just CG backgrounds in the middle of nowhere. But that's just me. I always imagined replacing the avengers battle in NYC with the JL. That's my dream battle.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

Waitaminute,waitaminute. I thought Snyder's use of CG during that Metropolis fight made the city look like a cartoon/video game? Then what's the beef? Hmm. The plot thickens.

I thought the CG in MOS was on par. Some fake fire but other than that everything looked photoreal.

 

[Tra-El]

I didn't get it the first 500 times. Somebody please post screen captures to ensure the point of what we're talking about here, lol.