The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 9

[Docker2.0]

Honestly, yeah, and I feel a little bad when I let my frustration get the better of me.

They're real people and nobody likes hearing other people bad-mouth something that they put a lot of effort into.

But it's probably easier to brush it off at this point - when we don't really know much about it and aren't talking about real details. It will sting more when we're talking about more specific things.

I thought Toby Kebbel sounded a little uncomfortable with his now infamous interview and it probably stung a little for him to see how people reacted after it. It's probably difficult for him to separate our criticism of the bad decisions the studio is making from personal criticism of him.

I don't even blame Trank. I feel like even if he has a half-assed vision of what he FF should be, it's less his fault than the higher-ups who green-lighted his project. They're the ones who gave him the power to screw this up.

Yeah but it's kind of his own fault. Not bashing dude but he took way to many liberties for his "vision" that just doesn't sit right. I also think it's a good thing because should Fox decide to keep the property after 7 years and reboot it, any director will think long and hard about doing this project because of past failures. Plus Fox will want to do it yet again on a low budget because none of the movies seem to have been blockbusters plus it doesn't really turn a huge profit for Fox. Marvel gets a certain percentage, they don't get any merchandise cuts..............I honestly don't know why Fox is trying so hard to hold on to them when Marvel/Disney could screw them more so than they already are.

 

[Dark Raven]

This movie just sounds like what was originally the possible script for Chronicle 2. Just insert FF characters and Micheal B Jordan. Truth be told I would be more interested in this film if it was Chronicle 2.

Is it too late to make it into Chronicle 2? It probably would do better as that film or as an original movie than as FFINO. It would be interesting to see if this were released as something else if Marvel did regain the rights to the FF.

 

[Docker2.0]

Is it too late to make it into Chronicle 2? It probably would do better as that film or as an original movie than as FFINO. It would be interesting to see if this were released as something else if Marvel did regain the rights to the FF.

That's what I was thinking. If they killed the name Fantastic Four and just called it Chronicle 2, I can guarantee this movie will make more than Chronicle and make a profit. Calling it Fantastic Four is what is really killing this thing.

 

[Zarex]

That's what I was thinking. If they killed the name Fantastic Four and just called it Chronicle 2, I can guarantee this movie will make more than Chronicle and make a profit. Calling it Fantastic Four is what is really killing this thing.

I'd love to see Marvel and FOX work out a deal to release this VOD as "The Ultimates", with the rights reverting after release.

 

[RAE072]

Holy crap, that's hilarious.

You guys think Trank and the others let the talk of this movie sucking bother them? Other than Miles Teller, has anyone else said anything about this movie other than the usual gritty and grounded crap?

It might slightly bum them out in some small way, but they're still 20 something millionaires, so no, I don't think they care much, if at all.

 

[Dasher10]

Did you hear that Marvel is also canceling Deadpool now? They really have it in for Fox.

 

[Spider2099]

Did you hear that Marvel is also canceling Deadpool now? They really have it in for Fox.

As much as I hate Sony, at least the two studios sort of get along. Fox on the other hand... oh gosh.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

He'll be back.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Did you hear that Marvel is also canceling Deadpool now? They really have it in for Fox.

I havent heard "canceling" but they are making a "death of deadpool" arc. But.... deadpool is so about parody's i have a hard time believing theyd kill him off rather than just play off the death of wolverine story

 

[def28]

He'll be back.

I havent heard "canceling" but they are making a "death of deadpool" arc. But.... deadpool is so about parody's i have a hard time believing theyd kill him off rather than just play off the death of wolverine story

Yup, even bleedingcool didn't play the conspiracy hand here.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/10/28/deadpool-to-relaunch-in-2015/

But would that be the end? No. You may be getting Death Of Deadpool story leading up to #250 to parody the Death Of Wolverine series, but straight afterwards, there will be a Deadpool #1 again.

They’re not daft.

All-New Deadpool!

 

[Dasher10]

I havent heard "canceling" but they are making a "death of deadpool" arc. But.... deadpool is so about parody's i have a hard time believing theyd kill him off rather than just play off the death of wolverine story

I believe it's for a while. Marvel killed off Spider-Man until a week after the new film hit. Wolverine is probably going to stay dead until 2017. Deadpool probably won't return until early 2016. I expect him to be gone for a good ten months. For as much as I dislike what the current film is doing to Doctor Doom, Marvel are punishing the fans over it. Comic sales won't impact the film's box office.

 

[def28]

I believe it's for a while. Marvel killed off Spider-Man until a week after the new film hit. Wolverine is probably going to stay dead until 2017. Deadpool probably won't return until early 2016. I expect him to be gone for a good ten months. For as much as I dislike what the current film is doing to Doctor Doom, Marvel are punishing the fans over it. Comic sales won't impact the film's box office.

Who are they punishing? Fans not buying comics?

Have you seen Death Of Wolverine and Amazing Spider-Man 1 sales?

The Spider-Man story never stopped, it was just Superior. Are they punishing Thor and Cap fans too since their roles got taken by other characters? Sales say otherwise. Most of these choices being made are to grab attention, do something different and sell more books. Marvel held 9 spots of the top ten highest selling comics this year. While a few choices are highly suspect (SW,QS), that seems more to fit into their own films. Not to piss off Fox personally. Lay the blame on trying to fit into the MCU more. With F4 the fact remains it's not a high selling book, and it's future is undecided. It's not even through it's last issue and people seemed to have made up their minds and think everything in the comic world is for good now.

What really sucks is that from now on, anytime an X or F4 member gets changed, replaced or taken out of the equation for a bit, people are gonna blame it on Marvels hatred for Fox. And anytime they do something positive with the characters (like giving Storm, Cyclops, Magneto and Nightcrawler a chance at solos) alot of the same people will not recognize that or support them, still saying that Marvel hates the X-Men cause of Fox. If the books then get low sales and are cancelled, the blame goes again, right back to Marvel comics for trying to cut out the X-Men. Can't win.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

With F4 the fact remains it's not a high selling book, and it's future is undecided. It's not even through it's last issue and people seemed to have made up their minds and think everything in the comic world is for good now.

F4 has been cancelled and relaunched again and again before now without so much of a peep from these bleeding hearts that have inexplicably come out of the woodwork.

What really sucks is that from now on, anytime an X or F4 member gets changed, replaced or taken out of the equation for a bit, people are gonna blame it on Marvels hatred for Fox. And anytime they do something positive with the characters (like giving Storm, Cyclops, Magneto and Nightcrawler a chance at solos) alot of the same people will not recognize that or support them, still saying that Marvel hates the X-Men cause of Fox. If the books then get low sales and are cancelled, the blame goes again, right back to Marvel comics for trying to cut out the X-Men. Can't win.

Nailed it.

 

[def28]

F4 has been cancelled and relaunched again and again before now without so much of a peep from these bleeding hearts that have inexplicably come out of the woodwork.

Exactly. Hickman and Fractions run were both canceled within the past 2 years, and we are now on the 2nd relaunch under the Marvel Now banner. So three different volumes and creative teams in three years. Getting canceled isn't new for the series, been happening to it every year.

 

[starscream22]

I believe it's for a while. Marvel killed off Spider-Man until a week after the new film hit. Wolverine is probably going to stay dead until 2017. Deadpool probably won't return until early 2016. I expect him to be gone for a good ten months. For as much as I dislike what the current film is doing to Doctor Doom, Marvel are punishing the fans over it. Comic sales won't impact the film's box office.

Yeah, and Marvel's going to make sure that new characters and ideas wont help Fox-Marvel either.

Just imagine a writer at Marvel making this huge epic F4 arc with new F4 villains and everything. Like Civil War and Secret Invasion fan's are going to want see a screen adaptation of it. Now enters FOX who can pluck that same arc and characters tied to it and make 100's of millions off of a crappier version.

So you being in Marvel's shoes does it make sense to make epic stories under the F4 title knowing the current circumstances or should being a selfish, ignorant, entitled, fanboy overcloud this predicament?

 

[starscream22]

I will say that Marvel is smarter now in that they'll take a new title like "Uncanny Avengers", which includes both Avengers and X-men characters. There they can add all types of new Plotlines and characters which they can then filter out to other books/franchises on a need to basis. They've also been making a lot of crossover books that could later benefit the MCU (Age Of Ultron). Doing things this way prevents Fox and Sony from touching new material. It also extends the growing want fans have to get all the rights back under one umbrella. "New Avengers" makes good use of this with the Illuminati and Cabal.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Who are they punishing? Fans not buying comics?

Have you seen Death Of Wolverine and Amazing Spider-Man 1 sales?

The Spider-Man story never stopped, it was just Superior. Are they punishing Thor and Cap fans too since their roles got taken by other characters? Sales say otherwise. Most of these choices being made are to grab attention, do something different and sell more books. Marvel held 9 spots of the top ten highest selling comics this year. While a few choices are highly suspect (SW,QS), that seems more to fit into their own films. Not to piss off Fox personally. Lay the blame on trying to fit into the MCU more. With F4 the fact remains it's not a high selling book, and it's future is undecided. It's not even through it's last issue and people seemed to have made up their minds and think everything in the comic world is for good now.

What really sucks is that from now on, anytime an X or F4 member gets changed, replaced or taken out of the equation for a bit, people are gonna blame it on Marvels hatred for Fox. And anytime they do something positive with the characters (like giving Storm, Cyclops, Magneto and Nightcrawler a chance at solos) alot of the same people will not recognize that or support them, still saying that Marvel hates the X-Men cause of Fox. If the books then get low sales and are cancelled, the blame goes again, right back to Marvel comics for trying to cut out the X-Men. Can't win.

It goes beyond comics though, Marvel is just flat out trying to mitigate the X-Men as much as possible and have essentially reduced the Fantastic Four as mere footnotes in the Marvel Universe. The story goes that they can get away with doing away with the Fantastic Four because it's exactly as you say, the sales just aren't working no matter what Marvel is doing. But they can't do the same with the X-Men because it would actually affect Marvel's bottom line in the publishing division.

That said, they are working on mitigating the X-Men. The X-Men cannot headline a Marvel event anymore the way they did with House of M. We are seeing low selling X-Men books getting canned and I think we'll get to a point where eventually we're just going to have Uncanny X-Men, X-Men, and Deadpool, with everything else terminated.

 

[def28]

It goes beyond comics though, Marvel is just flat out trying to mitigate the X-Men as much as possible and have essentially reduced the Fantastic Four as mere footnotes in the Marvel Universe. The story goes that they can get away with doing away with the Fantastic Four because it's exactly as you say, the sales just aren't working no matter what Marvel is doing. But they can't do the same with the X-Men because it would actually affect Marvel's bottom line in the publishing division.

That said, they are working on mitigating the X-Men. The X-Men cannot headline a Marvel event anymore the way they did with House of M. We are seeing low selling X-Men books getting canned and I think we'll get to a point where eventually we're just going to have Uncanny X-Men, X-Men, and Deadpool, with everything else terminated.

Maybe, that def could happen. But this year didn't show much evidence in that imo, with over a dozen solo and team X books being launched or in their early runs. They stocked up on X books to the point of it being too much for readers. As for events, Battle Of The Atom wasn't long ago, and Black Vortex is coming up. Wolverine may have died but multiple titles have showed up revolving around that, including a weekly one. Those three were all fairly big events, with Wolverine selling more then any Avenger title or event himself. That was the big selling title this year for comics in general. This year showed how valuable he can be with sales, so be it X-Men or Avenger he'll be back with full force and hype from them.

Your def right that they are now taking down the low selling ones. I can't blame the publisher for pulling the plug though. Just how it goes, as this is happening to Avenger titles as well as the F4 for the same reason. But the spin off X-Men titles still have quite a few books that sell more then spin off Avenger titles at the moment. They dish out titles from both quite often, and cross them over now more then they ever had.

With Secret Wars coming up the whole Universe is gonna be in such a different place next year that it's difficult to tell what will be out. Which is why when it comes to F4, I'm not really jumping to conclusions on what's gonna happen with them. This "cancellation" feels too much like past marketing strategies regarding "final" issues. With X-Men I'd say those three you mentioned are a good guess at what will still be around X wise. Along with a few others. Nothing as extreme as this year for sure.

 

[UltraSuperGuy]

It's a shame.

What could have been, eh?

Ah well.

Hopefully Trank, praise Him, will deliver us from this outpouring of fun, awesome, faithful superhero movies that have failed MASSIVELY and give us the gritty, realistic, kids-dealing-with-disabilities "Fantastic" Four comic book movie we all so desperately need.

The saddest thing about the direction they've gone in for this "grounded and gritty" version of the FF is that they thought they did the FF faithfully before and it failed.

Yeah, I've got news for you FOX, you DIDN'T do the FF faithfully the first time around.

 

[Tony Stark]

Exactly. Hickman and Fractions run were both canceled within the past 2 years, and we are now on the 2nd relaunch under the Marvel Now banner. So three different volumes and creative teams in three years. Getting canceled isn't new for the series, been happening to it every year.

It's not just cancelling the book. The FF have been removed from every piece of Marvel advertising, including the 75th anniversary logo, and Disney Infinity 2.0.

 

[def28]

It's not just cancelling the book. The FF have been removed from every piece of Marvel advertising, including the 75th anniversary logo, and Disney Infinity 2.0.

They were not removed from all 75th anniversary promos and advertising. They also had their variant coversjust like others.

Disney 2.0? Yeah, they are not there. That wasn't happening. Wolverine and Deadpool probably are not even getting that treatment and Disney has used them in Ultimate Spider-Man.

 

[starscream22]

Oh c'mon. Hardly anybody here is a) a "Fox4 fan" or b) looking for a win. Unless by a win you mean the movie not sucking.

The fact is both Marvel and Fox make good and bad CBM's. Ant-Man could be either one. FF could be either one. Both seem underwhelming so far though.

On a side note, i don't mind Donut getting banned. The most negative poster in the FF forum and most delusional "Marvel can't go wrong" fanboy. Impossible to discuss with someone who believes in studios, not in movies.

Posters like you would have a leg to stand on if WB, SONY and Fox weren't all trying to "BE LIKE MARVEL STUDIOS". H3ll, even Universal is trying to make up some lame "Monster Cinematic Universe" now... And saying Fox makes good Marvel films is still just a matter of opinion and not fact. So like I said before, Ant-man is aDAY ONE TICKET! Maybe even another ticket the day this reboot comes out.

Shout out to Donut if you can still read the post here, KEEP HOPE ALIVE MAN!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Posters like you would have a leg to stand on if WB, SONY and Fox weren't all trying to "BE LIKE MARVEL STUDIOS". H3ll, even Universal is trying to make up some lame "Monster Cinematic Universe" now... And saying Fox makes good Marvel films is still just a matter of opinion and not fact. So like I say Ant-man is DAY ONE TICKET! Maybe even another ticket the day this reboot comes out.

I hope Ant-Man is good. I will definitely see it opening weekend. If the film delivers, I think buying another ticket on the weekend of Foxtastic Four is a fantastic idea! Just think - a superhero movie that's actually about family. (Scott/Cassie Lang and Hank Pym/Hope Van Dyne - a potentially intriguing story about fathers and daughters - count me in).

 

[Joe Rockhead]

They were not removed from all 75th anniversary promos and advertising. They also had their variant coversjust like others.

Disney 2.0? Yeah, they are not there. That wasn't happening. Wolverine and Deadpool probably are not even getting that treatment and Disney has used them in Ultimate Spider-Man.

The Thing has made appearances in all 3 animated series at this point, so I don't think that's the issue there at all.

Disney 2.0 is clearly taking it's Marvel characters from the MCU and Animated universe, but it's sticking with the featured characters, and not the one-offs. I think the real test will be to see if they introduce Dr. Doom as a playable character - he's been featured as a major antagonist in the latest animated Avengers series.

 

[Eddie]

The Thing has made appearances in all 3 animated series at this point, so I don't think that's the issue there at all.

Disney 2.0 is clearly taking it's Marvel characters from the MCU and Animated universe, but it's sticking with the featured characters, and not the one-offs. I think the real test will be to see if they introduce Dr. Doom as a playable character - he's been featured as a major antagonist in the latest animated Avengers series.

We already know the full lineup. Unreleased characters include Yondu and Falcon. There is no Fantastic Four or X-Men content in Infinity whatsoever. There's actually a bit of Ghost Rider content (his chains as a weapon), but not one thing from anything Fox has film rights for. The Disney Infinity lockout is believed to be real.