The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 9

[Art Freak]

We should all just boycott (sorry Blackman ) the terms "gritty" and "grounded". They're not good for anyone.

 

[Dark Raven]

I get what he means by grounded though I just dont think that's the right word. From the films he said it should be like it seems instead of "grounded" he means "serious" or at least that's what I got from it.

That being said, I dont want a serious FF film that is in the tone of TDKS or even X-Men. FF should have that fun movie tone like Star Trek or most of the MCU films

Agreed. Films like Gravity or 2001 are the wrong tone, and 2001 was slow and pondering, and that's the kind of tone that Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture went for and that was really dull and dragged.

GOTG is the tone that FF should go for. A real rollicking space adventure.

 

[marcvader]

Bottom line is a Fantastic Four film has to be fun, have amazing visuals and be for the whole family. It needs to push the envelope in the effects department while gushing heart.

 

[Dark Raven]

Bottom line is a Fantastic Four film has to be fun, have amazing visuals and be for the whole family. It needs to push the envelope in the effects department while gushing heart.

It should be like a live-action Incredibles movie.

Any serious sci-fi movies like Interstellar, Gravity or 2001 should not be what the FF tries to emulate.

 

[MadVillainy]

I do think it's also really important that the FF films arent so much superheroes as explorers. Obviously they have superpowers and do superheroics but after the first film, which would presumably show an origin, they should spend the majority of the time away from the Baxter Building/New York.

Similar to the Tron films or John Carter, have MAYBE the first 30 minutes set in regular earth and maybe a bit of the ending. But the majority of the movie should be spent in space, Latveria, N Zone, Subterranean earth, etc.

 

[MadVillainy]

Agreed. Films like Gravity or 2001 are the wrong tone, and 2001 was slow and pondering, and that's the kind of tone that Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture went for and that was really dull and dragged.

GOTG is the tone that FF should go for. A real rollicking space adventure.

Kinda splitting hairs, but I wouldnt necessarily say GOTG. GOTG was more jokey than I'd want FF.

I would say something closer to Winter Soldier. Like I laughed a lot in Winter Soldier, but when it was serious it was serious. That's the tone I would go for, not just for FF but the whole MCU. It worked really well for GOTG though.

Honestly I think the Tim Story FF movies had a fine tone. It just that the jokes didnt really land, the acting was bad, etc.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm not talking about the humour in GOTG but the rousing space opera movie that embraces the fantastic and isn't trying to be overly serious or trying to pass itself off as a high brow science fiction film. I guess FF could be a cross between Star Trek and Star Wars with the Incredibles thrown in.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Bottom line is a Fantastic Four film has to be fun, have amazing visuals and be for the whole family. It needs to push the envelope in the effects department while gushing heart.

Somebody should print these two, simple sentences up on posters with big bold lettering and hang them in all areas that people working on the film congregate.

But, unfortunately, if the studio understood this basic concept, they wouldn't have green-lit this version to start with.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I think Guardians is the right tone for FF. The jokes created great moments of levity and helped define that particular property, but for the most part the tone (visual palette, character interactions, whimsical nature etc) fit the FF perfectly imo.

And I think there should be certain things you strive for in the MCU in general, like being fun and entertaining with healthy doses of drama and humor (so basically the comics incarnate). Rich storytelling that offers a wide gamut of movie experience. But the story/characters should dictate the tone. Winter Soldier went for the more political thriller tone and was a more intimate film then something like the Avengers. Age of Ultron will be darker then the Avengers because the story will dictate it. Daredevil looks like it'll be the darkest thing to date, but the character requires it. I'd bet it still has the MCU tenants which we've come to expect. It may have less humor and have a darker visual palette, but it'll still be as fun and entertaining as anything.

 

[First Avenger]

Rather than GOTG,which is kinda his own thing,I think the tone of a FF movie should be close to the Thor movies.

 

[MadVillainy]

Rather than GOTG,which is kinda his own thing,I think the tone of a FF movie should be close to the Thor movies.

Nah. I feel like the tone is one of the downfalls of the Thor movies.

I'm not talking about the humour in GOTG but the rousing space opera movie that embraces the fantastic and isn't trying to be overly serious or trying to pass itself off as a high brow science fiction film. I guess FF could be a cross between Star Trek and Star Wars with the Incredibles thrown in.

Sure. I'd agree with that.

Just make it an adventure that's the main advice I'd give someone who makes this. I feel like there hasnt been a good adventure film in a while, maybe since the 2nd Pirates of the Caribbean or maybe Part I of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

If any of these rumors are true, then I expect Josh Trank to be the next M. Night Shyamalan in terms of box office poison. He'll go down in history as the man who sent the Fantastic Four back to Marvel, nearly ruined the careers of Miles Teller and Simon Kinberg and got replaced before his Star Wars movie could even film.

But more importantly, he'll be the reason why there was never a good FF movie until the 2020s.


Here's how I'd redo the FF for 2019 or 2020

I'd also have made the FF cast

Matthew McConaughey as Reed Richards
Emily Bunt as Sue Richards
Cam Gigandet as Johnny Storm
Seth Rogan as Ben Grimm
Keith Szarabajka as Annihilus (voice)
Sergej Trifunovic as Doctor Doom (post-credits)

The tone would be similar to Interstellar, Gravity or 2001: A Space Odyssey. More grounded than the Tim Story films but not as mundane as Josh Trank's take. The emotions I would seek to evoke from the audience would be awe and wonder. I'd seek a real astrophysicist to assist as a science consultant and get backing from NASA to provide equipment to help lower the budget.

The themes I'd play with would be optimism, faith in the power of reason to help humanity through science and the thrill of discovery. Not the type of Flash Gordon pulp sci-fi that Tim Story liked nor Josh Trank's, "kid's with disabilities" take. I'm talking hard sci-fi that grounds completely fantastic elements in real science to make the very outlandish things that appear on screen seem plausible, no matter how crazy they are.

The entire plot revolves around multiverse theory and wormholes which are based in actual science as a means of circumventing the light barrier. FTL travel is already confirmed to exist in the MCU. The main problem that Earth has is a lack of materials to build that technology. The plan is to open up a portal to another universe where the speed of light is no longer a hard limit, then travel to other solar systems from there.

Reed Richards laid the groundwork for extra-dimensional travel but was taken off the project because the fourth astronaut on his crew caught the flu when the shuttle was about to take off. Also, being taken off the mission means that Reed is no longer going to get a Nobel Prize despite all his hard work. So he adds Johnny to the crew, despite him not being trained as an astronaut, hijacks the shuttle and heads into the N-Zone. Naturally, Johnny has no idea what he's doing and causes an accident in the N-Zone.

Annihilus attaches himself to the shuttle and begins stalking the FF to sabotage their equipment so they may no longer, "invade" his territory. His goal to to kill anyone involved with the project before returning home so that he won't have to worry about any rivals. Annihilus' fatalism and paranoia is meant to contrast with Reed's optimism and that contrast is what drives the plot.

When it comes to characterization, Reed Richards is a fast talking nerd. He rambles, he assumes people are paying attention, he lacks social graces, etc. He's also a bit arrogant but his main goal in life is to improve the world through science. He's the epitome of altruism and selflessness even though he comes across as aloof and uncaring towards the people closest to him.

Sue is Reed's wife who is ultimately the de facto leader of the group. Reed comes up with the plans but Sue is the one who finds ways to execute them. Reed finds Johnny's pranks funny and even eggs him on so it falls on Sue to get him to stop. When Reed gets a bit to intense and fixated on overly convoluted plans, Sue is the one who gets him back on track. And while Ben doesn't have any relation to her, he ultimately listens to her. Reed may be the main character but Sue is the one who's in charge.

Johnny is an immature man-child who just so happens to be a college dropout who associates himself with astronauts. He lives with his sister and her husband and openly admits to mooching off them so he can raid their fridge and play video games all day. After the accident in space, his goal in life is to annoy Ben as much as possible. He ultimately gets tasked with public relations where he markets the FF to the general public by appearing on talk shows and approving merchandise so the other three don't have to worry about him touching any sensitive lab equipment. His role in the narrative is getting Reed to explain complex concepts to him (and thus the audience) so that people who dont' have a background in physics can follow the plot.

Ben is somebody who was already grumpy but now has to deal with being turned into a rock monster AND a celebrity. Not only does he have to take the stairs since elevators are over capacity with him riding in them but he also has to sleep in a sleeping bag since he broke his bead the first time he tried sleeping in it. That and he now has such a unique appearance that he can't leave the Baxter Building without paparazzi ambushing him and asking for his autograph. He wants to be able to be left alone but can't because everyone asks him what it was like to be the first man to enter the Negative Zone.

Two scenes occur after the credits. The first shows that the plan to not only drop Annihilus back in the Negative Zone but send him flying at faster than light speeds has backfired as he's now reentered our universe, albeit at Hala. The Kree see a shooting star heading right for their world that stops in midair followed by several spaceships of unknown origin appearing out of nowhere. Then comes the landing when strange insect aliens land on the surface and begin their invasion. To be continued in Guardians of the Galaxy: Annihilation!

The second has the whole team on a late night talk show which zooms out to reveal a TV screen being watched by a figure breathing heavily. The camera pans around to reveal Doctor Doom.

I do think there are some good ideas in here.
-I think that Emily Blunt would be your good Sue Storm. Id prefer her in another superhero role but Sue Storm is fine.
-I like your characterizations for the most part.
-I like the use of the N Zone as their origin and Annihilus as the villain. I still say that's the way to go with an FF film origin.

-I dont really like the idea of Reed allowing Johnny to be in the crew. Ive read that's what kinda happens in the comics' original origin, Im just not really a fan of the idea.
-I dont really like the idea of Reed egging/encouraging Johnny's pranks.
-Ben already being grumpy is something I don't like. He should be a fun loving guy. He should be that guy who looks and may even sound like a jock meat head, but in actuality he's really nice, confident, and actually a very cool person.
-I dont like Annihilus' storyline/characterization/whatever. The way I read it made him seem small time and not epic like he should be

Some of the casting choices are off. I really like McConaughey. Ive been a fan of everything he's done since Lincoln Lawyer #mcconaissance. But he's not right for awkward, aloof Reed Richards. I like Rogen and I think he could be good for the more sensitive and somber Grimm moments, but I dont think he'd be good as the boisterous "It's Clobberin Time" Grimm. Gigandet I like how well he plays a jerk, but he's probably a better fit for TV than a movie.
Really not a fan of the Doom choice either

Not a fan of the post credit scenes either

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah Ben shouldn't already be grumpy, because then he'd never allow his sense of humour to come out once he's fully bricked up and can't change back. He's got to be a naturally funny guy who employs black humour at times to make the best out of a bad situation, which is what he would do especially once he's become the Thing. He needs to be laid back enough to still be able to do that. Someone who is very grumpy will simply become even more bitter and withdrawn, and definitely not cracking jokes to make the best of his lot.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

If any of these rumors are true, then I expect Josh Trank to be the next M. Night Shyamalan in terms of box office poison.

It took M. Night three movies to fall off the wagon, and even if he crashed and burned after his first one, he would still have a far more iconic film to his name than Trank ever did.

 

[justanotherguy]

Fun.Family.Discovery.Wonder.Excitement.

No humans have really left Earth in the MCU(save Star Lord), which obviously is filled with all sorts of beings and planets.

This is the F4 niche. Much like The Enterprise explore new worlds and cultures.

The MCU could rapidly expand it's "corners" just by telling pretty common F4 stories. That's why they are so awesome, they are interwoven across the 616.

 

[Eddie]

I suspect many people know something major went down, but few know the real details (that's an interesting element of the posted exchange - it mentions "the truth about Josh Trank" - indicating there are a lot of rumors but few people have the solid truth).

Any news sites who want to maintain their reputation will be very reluctant to post rumors. They're probably looking for something more substantial and those who know the real details aren't talking.

At this moment, I feel confident he's off the film and the commonly believed reason is his dogs did a lot of damage to a house. But I believe that's the story Fox wants to float and there's much more to it than that. If things were going well (or even tolerably), Fox wouldn't have taken the drastic action of firing him just because of some damage.

I think it's extremely unlikely that Trank is still working on the film. Fox knows these rumors are out there. If things were humming along relatively normally, they'd get photos, reports, Josh Trank himself out there . . . anything to put these rumors to rest if things are progressing relatively normally.

So what you're saying is Josh Trank has dogs.



Josh Trank has dogs. Ivan Pavlov had dogs. Clearly SHH poster pavlov is Josh Trank. My logic is flawless.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe they were gamma-irradiated Hulk dogs.

 

[Eddie]

Maybe they were gamma-irradiated Hulk dogs.

Bringing Hulk comparisons in is in terrible taste. You should be ashamed of yourself. Ang Lee has more than one good film.

 

[marcvader]

Fun.Family.Discovery.Wonder.Excitement.

No humans have really left Earth in the MCU(save Star Lord), which obviously is filled with all sorts of beings and planets.

This is the F4 niche. Much like The Enterprise explore new worlds and cultures.

The MCU could rapidly expand it's "corners" just by telling pretty common F4 stories. That's why they are so awesome, they are interwoven across the 616.

and this underscores why it is such a shame the Fantastic Four are not part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

 

[Dasher10]

1. I didn't mean grounded as in, "The Dark Knight." I meant making the science feel like it's real even when you're watching something unbelievable. I also wouldn't describe it as, "serious" either. The character interactions should be more like something out of Rush Hour. Once you put Johnny into the equation, it's no longer, "serious." Hard sci-fi is probably a better term.

Even with Annihilus. He's meant to be a creepy, nightmarish villain who wears a metal mask over a mantis face and has bat wings but I'd still make the way that he learns English actually pretty funny since he learns by watching TV. So even though he's slowly killing off scientists one by one and talks in a deep, demonic voice the entire time, he's an inherently funny character because of the fish out of water elements and him quoting films. Imagine Cronenberg's Fly quoting Arnold Schwartzenegger in a really awkward context without getting why everyone is now laughing at him and can't take him seriously anymore. He also learns of our technology by surfing the internet and we look at his body language when he discovers a XXX website. He's not so much a dweller of the Uncanny Valley as much as he bungee jumped right in.


2. I meant similar to Gravity and Interstellar in terms of being hard sci-fi with incredible visuals. It wouldn't be anywhere near as plodding as 2001 since only the first act would be set in space. The second and third acts would be where the narrative diverges into being both a slasher film and a goofy comedy. Think what would happen if the Xenomorph were the villain in an episode of Scobby Doo. It's about building suspense and tension, then relieving it with a moment so awkward and absurd that it can't be considered, "serious."

The tone is probably the closest to Gravity and Interstellar mixed with Men in Black and Mass Effect.

The sheer level of banter keeps this from being considered, "highbrow." For instance, you have Ben breaking his bed when he tries to go to sleep for the first time since the accident and it breaks apart. Yeah, it's sad but it's also a funny image. Johnny showing off his powers and then setting off a smoke alarm is awkward the first time. Him doing it a second time because Reed wants to keep Johnny out of the lab is a running gag.

Reed going off on a tangent about how he was also considering another method of defeating Annihilus but doing so in a way that would also blow up most of the East Coast which is why he isn't doing it but describing all the details of the scrapped plan before sue shuts him up. That's funny.

Ben backhanding Johnny when he pops out of a corner and pretends to be Annihilus, then laughs in Ben's face over it. That's the kind of humor I'm shooting for. It's humor that comes from the characters and how they mess with each other instead of the world around them being crazy.

FF shouldn't be similar in tone to Guardians since Guardians just drops you in space and asks you to accept it. The FF are based in the Baxter Building in New York. It's inherently more grounded since a film taking place on Earth, above Earth's orbit and in a parallel dimension through a wormhole near Earth, you're going to have to focus less on the FF existing in a crazy world and more on all the crazy things that happen to our world. Among the MCU properties, it would be the closest to Iron Man. Not as wacky as Guardians and not as serious as Captain America but there would be a lot of slapstick and a lot of one-liners.

3. Guardians already fits the space opera niche. Fantastic Four isn't a space opera. It's Earth-level Sci-Fi that sometimes goes off into space. There's room to do hard sci-fi that still has a sense of humor, in fact, that's what's really missing in most hard sci-fi today. You have all the awe and wonder but none of the fun. Fantastic Four should both capture imaginations and manage to get you to laugh with the onscreen antics.

 

[MadVillainy]

Even with Annihilus. He's meant to be a creepy, nightmarish villain who wears a metal mask over a mantis face and has bat wings but I'd still make the way that he learns English actually pretty funny since he learns by watching TV. So even though he's slowly killing off scientists one by one and talks in a deep, demonic voice the entire time, he's an inherently funny character because of the fish out of water elements and him quoting films. Imagine Cronenberg's Fly quoting Arnold Schwartzenegger in a really awkward context without getting why everyone is now laughing at him and can't take him seriously anymore. He also learns of our technology by surfing the internet and we look at his body language when he discovers a XXX website. He's not so much a dweller of the Uncanny Valley as much as he bungee jumped right in.

Not a fan at all of what I just read

The tone is probably the closest to Gravity and Interstellar mixed with Men in Black and Mass Effect.

Those are all pretty different movie tones

FF shouldn't be similar in tone to Guardians since Guardians just drops you in space and asks you to accept it.

I don't see why anyone would have a problem "buying" anything to do with FF if it was set in space, on Earth or whatever.

3. Guardians already fits the space opera niche. Fantastic Four isn't a space opera. It's Earth-level Sci-Fi that sometimes goes off into space.

I will agree with this

 

[Kanon]

The tone should be like Men in Black or (new) Star Trek, but with a strong sci-fi-esque influence. Not technical sci fi, but pushing the envelope of cientific possibilities, while having fun in doing so (like the "menace" of Impossible Man, defeating Skrulls with hynopsis, that kind of stuff)

 

[Orba]

It took M. Night three movies to fall off the wagon, and even if he crashed and burned after his first one, he would still have a far more iconic film to his name than Trank ever did.

Unfortunately for Trank he has been announced as a Star Wars director, and that is going to make him of massive interest to the media, even though who don't give a crap about the FF.

BTW anyone have much knowledge of similar director selfdestructions/ directors being dumped after filming? Just wondering so we might get an idea of how Fox could play this. As I said the fact that Trank is... was set to be a Star Wars director will make this story of interest to far more of the media than it would have been otherwise.

 

[Dark Raven]

If Trank has been fired, and loses the Star Wars gig as well, he will definitely be kicking himself.

He could always make a sequel to "That Awkward Moment" though. Or why not come up with his own superhero creation? He could call it "Trank Girl."

 

[Kelly]

Unfortunately for Trank he has been announced as a Star Wars director, and that is going to make him of massive interest to the media, even though who don't give a crap about the FF.

BTW anyone have much knowledge of similar director selfdestructions/ directors being dumped after filming? Just wondering so we might get an idea of how Fox could play this. As I said the fact that Trank is... was set to be a Star Wars director will make this story of interest to far more of the media than it would have been otherwise.

Pete Travis and the "Judge Dredd" remake...

 

[Docker2.0]

Was Judge Dredd Fox also?