The Last Crusade of Relationships

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I have a question, isn't dating the same as a relationship? How is it different? Always thought it was one in the same.

I don't think it is. It's more of a taster where you're checking each other out and deciding what you want to do and how you want to proceed. However, one is a subset of the other and not vice versa: ie when you're in a relationship, you are dating each other, but if you're dating you're not necessarily in a relationship with that person.

The confusion is that the word dating is used with slightly different meanings in different contexts.

Technically, a date is just spending time with a person of the opposite sex and getting to know them better. You can do that within a relationship, but you can also do that as a series of one-off encounters with no element of commitment to the other person.

It's a bit like the difference between a commissioned TV series and a movie which the studio decides to make a sequel to because the last one did well. If the sequel does well again, they might want another one, until it outlasts its welcome. With a TV series, if they've ordered a full 24 episodes, say then there's a certain level of commitment to it until they decide to axe it (analagous with breaking up). Within the series, there might be similarities in the way they develop things as with a set of film sequels, whereas with each movie its playing it by ear.

Probably a better analogy would be something like Hercules the Legendary Journeys, which started as a series of one-off TV movies (as opposed to theatrical releases) but then later was made into a full weekly series. That would kind of show the progression from seeing how it goes (dating pre-relationship) to commissioning the series (entering into a committed relationship).
 
Yeah, I'm not getting any positive reactions from what you are describing although, there is a bit of a cultural difference from what I'm use to. I mean if she's keen on continuing to go out with you, I'm pretty sure that's a universal good sign.

I mean you can try making a move on the next date and see how that works.

I think the more I consider the cultural aspect the more confusing it gets to be honest. There's a very predominantly conservative culture around here, religious and what-not, it's what everyone has been raised on. But at the same time, Western practices are rampant and is more the norm than anything else. I mean, both she and I didn't exactly grow up in Bangladesh, nor do we have a background that makes it exclusively Bengali. Hence, just going out on a date together means a great deal, and why physical actions are frowned upon (i mean, it's not that different from India to be honest, the last generation still expects pre-marital relationships as an act of open rebellion, but are growing to accept it as cultures continue to mesh and their kids continue to be more responsible about themselves).

And yes, I'm sure she's not going to bother with conventions anyway, especially while being in college and studying liberal arts of all things (see what I mean by intellectual clickage?)

But I gotta ask myself if I want to be in a relationship with her now or not. She shouldn't have to be nice about wanting to be with me, and vice versa.

I have a question, isn't dating the same as a relationship? How is it different? Always thought it was one in the same.

Haha! The distinction is even more cumbersome if you're asking me :P But I guess they really are different. I mean, the way I see it, we're dating to see if there is any possibility of a committed relationship. I place dating in the same line as courting someone.

Though if the feelings are mutual and if you're attracted so well, guess 1 date ought to be enough.

Date-culture reminds me of Rape-culture. :( With all the intentional display of interest or lack of it, the back-and-forth tease and game, and yeah, all those crazy rules that people keep telling me about. By the time it grows into a relationship all that superficial b.s. BETTER NOT be there.

But hey, I'm speaking from a place where going-out is the same as eloping. :dry: (okay not quite but it's not as universally accepted as it is elsewhere).
 
I don't think it is. It's more of a taster where you're checking each other out and deciding what you want to do and how you want to proceed. However, one is a subset of the other and not vice versa: ie when you're in a relationship, you are dating each other, but if you're dating you're not necessarily in a relationship with that person.

The confusion is that the word dating is used with slightly different meanings in different contexts.

Technically, a date is just spending time with a person of the opposite sex and getting to know them better. You can do that within a relationship, but you can also do that as a series of one-off encounters with no element of commitment to the other person.

It's a bit like the difference between a commissioned TV series and a movie which the studio decides to make a sequel to because the last one did well. If the sequel does well again, they might want another one, until it outlasts its welcome. With a TV series, if they've ordered a full 24 episodes, say then there's a certain level of commitment to it until they decide to axe it (analagous with breaking up). Within the series, there might be similarities in the way they develop things as with a set of film sequels, whereas with each movie its playing it by ear.

Probably a better analogy would be something like Hercules the Legendary Journeys, which started as a series of one-off TV movies (as opposed to theatrical releases) but then later was made into a full weekly series. That would kind of show the progression from seeing how it goes (dating pre-relationship) to commissioning the series (entering into a committed relationship).

:funny:

Best example. Ever.

They used to call it "interviews". I dunno, always sounded better to me.

We sort of established this early on so yeah. Makes sense that dating isn't full-on commitment.
 
She just sounds awful tbh... Sex with her doesn't exactly sound like it'd make you feel good about yourself.

She is. I started to talking to again a little while ago just because it'd been a while since I'd gotten laid but ultimately decided it wasn't worth it. She really sucks as a human being.

See a hot guy? Does he turn you on? Ok, go get yourself some sex.

:up:

Lots of people say that when friends have sex it kills the friendship. I have not seen a good cause and effect however, so I question this.

I've banged quite a few girls I was friends with and never once has it ruined our friendship.

I have a question, isn't dating the same as a relationship? How is it different? Always thought it was one in the same.

I don't think it is. It's more of a taster where you're checking each other out and deciding what you want to do and how you want to proceed. However, one is a subset of the other and not vice versa: ie when you're in a relationship, you are dating each other, but if you're dating you're not necessarily in a relationship with that person.

This.
 
Is it a bad idea to ask another girl out this week? I adore e-card girl but I need to know where the hell I'm standing on this whole relationship business.



EDIT: Never mind this. I'm not going for it. Not while I'm still going out with her.
 
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I have a question, isn't dating the same as a relationship? How is it different? Always thought it was one in the same.

Dating is more casual. I think relationship is more exclusive. To me personally.
 
Well... that second date went okay I guess. It was her choice of venue, and she chose a themed photograph gallery. Again, really good conversations and the such, and she actually had a long day on her own today with her classes (i'd know that) so she came in pretty tired. But came nevertheless and said she was glad she did it.

She tells me about this story by Virginia Woolf that she's reading about how the detached, mundane, boring morning gives way to a youthful and energetic night where people can connect, and that it was one of the reasons why she likes the whole idea of us going out.

There was a photo-booth there for the theme, but she seemed reluctant and I told her it was okay if she didn't want to do that. Do remember that this is still Bangladesh, a more or less conservative culture where any physical connection is regarded as the FINAL DEAL. Well... with most people anyway. And she's shy like that.

It was a lovely night, at least on my part. She seemed tired as hell but was yet nice enough to go through it. And yes, discussions. Open-ended suggestions (photographs helped a lot), but most of it seems already mutual since we've got a similar world-view.

One thing that bothers me still is that despite all the conversations and atmospheric settings, I get this feeling that she's just not into it. Like whenever we're together she doesn't give away any physical attraction towards me. Maybe she's good at hiding it I dunno. But that lack of emotional and physical "clickage" persists.

This girl is trying to convince herself that she's enjoying her time with me. And on my part, whenever I look into her eyes I feel bad that what I'd felt a month ago isn't there when she's with me. I should've asked her out back then.

Go for the hand hold. My girlfriend said she was really happy I did that on our second date. It's little, but has a good amount of meaning, it's crosses the physical barrier, but isn't as intense as a kiss. If she doesn't pull away though, you've got a good indication you're okay to kiss her.

I have a question, isn't dating the same as a relationship? How is it different? Always thought it was one in the same.

No, dating isn't a relationship, Nave Torment's interview thing is how I always saw it. Dating is an interview with the girl or guy, you're interviewing for the job of boyfriend or girlfriend. You enter a relationship once you're hired for the job and it may take a few interviews before you get the job.
 
No, dating isn't a relationship, Nave Torment's interview thing is how I
always saw it. Dating is an interview with the girl or guy, you're interviewing for the job of boyfriend or girlfriend. You enter a relationship once you're hired for the job and it may take a few interviews before you get the job.

Which is why it seems odd to talk about sleeping with someone on the first, second or third date etc. It's like asking for your paycheck before you've even gotten the job or done any work.

And it's why asking someone to be your gf/ bf before you've even gone on a date is extremely premature

Someone might hint at an interest in you, but you still have to attend the interview. One can't say "but she already gave the impression she was interested," and then be expecting any kind of obligation from her.

In Daniel Thompson's case, the girl he messed up with was effectively only scheduling an interview with him at best. Maybe not even that. It might even be more like just sending in his resume/ CV/ application form, and then Daniel demanding to know why the interview hadn't taken place yet.
 
Yeah, I'm not getting any positive reactions from what you are describing although, there is a bit of a cultural difference from what I'm use to. I mean if she's keen on continuing to go out with you, I'm pretty sure that's a universal good sign.

I mean you can try making a move on the next date and see how that works.
Yeah TBH my bf was very shy about physical stuff at first (he still is, in public), but he kept on asking me out sooo....:funny:

I have a question, isn't dating the same as a relationship? How is it different? Always thought it was one in the same.
Yeah what Dark Raven and Erzengel said. "Dating" is definitely more casual, without the context of exclusivity. Being "in a relationship" is definitely more exclusive and has more emotional implications too. From my experience, once you start to drop your protective walls and freely let your private side show, flaws and all, it's getting into relationship territory.

Although going out "on a date" is possible for people in an exclusive relationship. :cwink: That just means going out somewhere special like you want to impress someone you're dating.
 
Yeah TBH my bf was very shy about physical stuff at first (he still is, in public), but he kept on asking me out sooo....:funny:


Yeah what Dark Raven and Erzengel said. "Dating" is definitely more casual, without the context of exclusivity. Being "in a relationship" is definitely more exclusive and has more emotional implications too. From my experience, once you start to drop your protective walls and freely let your private side show, flaws and all, it's getting into relationship territory.

Although going out "on a date" is possible for people in an exclusive relationship. :cwink: That just means going out somewhere special like you want to impress someone you're dating.

So basically he just had to wear your ass down.
 
Yeah TBH my bf was very shy about physical stuff at first (he still is, in public), but he kept on asking me out sooo....:funny:


Yeah what Dark Raven and Erzengel said. "Dating" is definitely more casual, without the context of exclusivity. Being "in a relationship" is definitely more exclusive and has more emotional implications too. From my experience, once you start to drop your protective walls and freely let your private side show, flaws and all, it's getting into relationship territory.

Although going out "on a date" is possible for people in an exclusive relationship. :cwink: That just means going out somewhere special like you want to impress someone you're dating.

Of course, many women don't even want to entertain the early casual stage of "dating" with someone - ie not even wanting to schedule an interview. Some almost regard an invitation to coffee as a marriage proposal and read far too much into it.

Sometimes coffee is just coffee, and a chance to get to spend time one on one with the opposite sex. I don't know if it's even always necessarily a prelude to wanting to enter into a relationship with that person.

If you're sending out many application forms or attending several interviews, you don't even know if you want the job yet. An interview with an employer should be just as much you interviewing them to see if they are right for you as it is them finding out if you are right for them (although not everyone always treats it that way). It's the same with dating. You can't get to know what a person is like unless you go on a date with them, but some won't even allow you that. In other words, they don't want you to even know them or they to know you. You might be having several of these dating interviews, so none of the prospective partners should be thinking that you're placing all your hope in that one interview and then become scared that you might be proposing marriage already.

And far too many women I've come across in my own personal experience have this attitude, which is why it can be so difficult to get a date in the first place.:csad:
 
We as guys rarely get to be the interviewer in these situations unless we just got all our **** together and have to beat them off with a stick.
 
Thanks for the answer to my question. I always thought they was one in the same but its not. As I said I'm learning as I go.
 
So basically he just had to wear your ass down.
I like to joke he was the most persistent and the least annoying. Fine line, but he achieved it. :woot:

Of course, many women don't even want to entertain the early casual stage of "dating" with someone - ie not even wanting to schedule an interview. Some almost regard an invitation to coffee as a marriage proposal and read far too much into it.

Sometimes coffee is just coffee, and a chance to get to spend time one on one with the opposite sex. I don't know if it's even always necessarily a prelude to wanting to enter into a relationship with that person.

If you're sending out many application forms or attending several interviews, you don't even know if you want the job yet. An interview with an employer should be just as much you interviewing them to see if they are right for you as it is them finding out if you are right for them (although not everyone always treats it that way). It's the same with dating. You can't get to know what a person is like unless you go on a date with them, but some won't even allow you that. In other words, they don't want you to even know them or they to know you. You might be having several of these dating interviews, so none of the prospective partners should be thinking that you're placing all your hope in that one interview and then become scared that you might be proposing marriage already.

And far too many women I've come across in my own personal experience have this attitude, which is why it can be so difficult to get a date in the first place.:csad:
Not all that surprising. Low-confidence men attract low-confidence women who think a coffee is a marriage proposal, because they've never gotten any attention otherwise. :o
 
I like to joke he was the most persistent and the least annoying. Fine line, but he achieved it. :woot:


Not all that surprising. Low-confidence men attract low-confidence women who think a coffee is a marriage proposal, because they've never gotten any attention otherwise. :o

I don't know about that. I've come across some girls who are getting lots of attention from guys, but then they might say to those they don't want to even entertain that they would rather remain just friends. But the thing is that I've never suggested otherwise or to progress beyond that stage yet. I just want the chance to "interview" and don't even know if I would like them or not. It seems a huge overreaction to say "I just want to be friends" if you just suggest grabbing a coffee together. Talk about jumping the gun. :doh:

And I don't think these girls are low on confidence. They have lots of dates every week, although perhaps they think of each of these dates as potentially leading to marriage when it could really just be a series of "interviews" before any relationship.

I think it's more that some of these girls simply do not even want to know me or anything about me, as they will completely blank me out and not even bother to engage in a conversation as if I'm not worthy enough to even acknowledge. That is the kind of behaviour that can lead to damaging one's confidence.

It's literally like an employer picking up your resume/CV (if it has a photo attached to it) and tossing it straight in the trash because they don't like your photo, not because they've even read it or looked to see what qualities you might have that might make you suitable for the job.
 
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Has anyone here experienced unrequited love?
 
I don't know about that. I've come across some girls who are getting lots of attention from guys, but then they might say to those they don't want to even entertain that they would rather remain just friends. But the thing is that I've never suggested otherwise or to progress beyond that stage yet. I just want the chance to "interview" and don't even know if I would like them or not. It seems a huge overreaction to say "I just want to be friends" if you just suggest grabbing a coffee together. Talk about jumping the gun. :doh:

And I don't think these girls are low on confidence. They have lots of dates every week, although perhaps they think of each of these dates as potentially leading to marriage when it could really just be a series of "interviews" before any relationship.
Then they are just crazy. :funny:

But I have a friend like this. She gets attention from guys ALL THE TIME (certainly way more than I ever did), but it's never from guys she wants, so she considers them creepy. And then when she actually does like someone, she completely takes it waaay too seriously and interprets normal dating behavior (as in, not exclusive, just dating) as jerkish. Then she "breaks up" with them and bemoans the lack of good men. Or as far as I can see, the lack of good men that she actually likes back. :o

I think it's more that some of these girls simply do not even want to know me or anything about me, as they will completely blank me out and not even bother to engage in a conversation as if I'm not worthy enough to even acknowledge. That is the kind of behaviour that can lead to damaging one's confidence.
Wait...are you talking about girls who are actually on dates with you? :huh:

That by itself shouldn't shoot down your confidence. If anything, you need to learn not to ask out crazy women who live in their own little world. :funny:
 
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What the hell medication was it? That sounds horrid.

I think its unethical for a Doctor to do anything to a man that would hurt his ability to get and maintain an erection. Not unless not doing so would otherwise kill him, and its only for a very temporary period of time. If at all possible it should come along with a script for a PDE-5 lowering drug to balance out that side effect.

I think some doctors do not always look at the big picture or other options in medications. Some anti-depressants are interchangeable, yet some will cause impotence or inability to climax, while others can actually enhance things. If they are interchangeable in pharmacological use, why not use the one that won't hurt him there? That even goes for some blood pressure medications.

I see drugs that cause impotence to be an absolute last resort. Not the first thing the doc pulls off the shelf or that pops into his mind.
Unfortunately that is not always the case in how docs think. Some really are incompetent.

The ways that those issue alone could harm his self esteem could easily lead to other health issues, not to mention the loss of relationships etc...

TBH, I never pryed to much into his medication situation. I know it was mental issues, as there were times when we were living together in the first house with another guy when he got really withdrawn and apologised and said it was just because he was on new meds that made him feel really strange... but I didn't mind at all. I'd just come home with a movie, stick it on and he wouldn't have to say a word to me, we would just be comfortable chilling in silence :)

I don't know for sure, but I think it all has to do with the fact he nearly died. He was hit by a truck while working on the road in a high vis jacket, and broke his neck. He doesn't speak about it much, but he said he was lying there thinking he was going to die. And a couple of years ago we witnessed a kid being hit by a car, and he was really shaken up by it (the kid was okay in the end we think)... just the sound brought it all back to him.

So i'm guessing the medication might be for post traumatic stress, or some kind of anxiety/panic attack/depression situation that came as a result of that, or as a result of such a long time in hospital and then wearing one of those head cage things for ages.

Doctors can only advise - I always recommend for people to weigh the pros and cons of their medical care themselves. So it's not the doctor's fault he was on this medication IMO.

Some doctors really are quacks and hand out meds like candy. So it's then still up to the patient to find a good doctor.

At any rate, impotence can be caused by a lot of things. Unsure as to how his previous girlfriends handled it, but my bf could not perform when we initially tried. I'm not talking 2 or 3 times. I'm talking probably close to 10. I think he was nervous, since sometimes he'd insist on having a bit of wine to relax him. Not sure why, I'd already told him I was a virgin but maybe he really didn't want to mess it up. He has absolutely noooo trouble with it now ( it's the opposite problem if anything) , but just because someone can't get it up doesn't mean there's something actually physically wrong. Someone could just be nervous.

Don't even get me bloody started on doctors. I've still never forgiven my best mates doctor for prescribing him valium when he was 16... he's 23 now, and he's trying soooo hard to come off it, but it's insanely difficult.

But yeah, as much as the medication was affecting him, I also think because he'd failed a few times before and even had girls react kind of badly to that, he'd worked himself up about it and now just sort of expected failure every time. But like I said... I solved that problem :p

And you know what? I didn't even get any bloody thanks! If it weren't for me, he and the girl he went to Thailand with would probably not have succeeded. I gave him back his confidence!

Well... that second date went okay I guess. It was her choice of venue, and she chose a themed photograph gallery. Again, really good conversations and the such, and she actually had a long day on her own today with her classes (i'd know that) so she came in pretty tired. But came nevertheless and said she was glad she did it.

She tells me about this story by Virginia Woolf that she's reading about how the detached, mundane, boring morning gives way to a youthful and energetic night where people can connect, and that it was one of the reasons why she likes the whole idea of us going out.

There was a photo-booth there for the theme, but she seemed reluctant and I told her it was okay if she didn't want to do that. Do remember that this is still Bangladesh, a more or less conservative culture where any physical connection is regarded as the FINAL DEAL. Well... with most people anyway. And she's shy like that.

It was a lovely night, at least on my part. She seemed tired as hell but was yet nice enough to go through it. And yes, discussions. Open-ended suggestions (photographs helped a lot), but most of it seems already mutual since we've got a similar world-view.

One thing that bothers me still is that despite all the conversations and atmospheric settings, I get this feeling that she's just not into it. Like whenever we're together she doesn't give away any physical attraction towards me. Maybe she's good at hiding it I dunno. But that lack of emotional and physical "clickage" persists.

This girl is trying to convince herself that she's enjoying her time with me. And on my part, whenever I look into her eyes I feel bad that what I'd felt a month ago isn't there when she's with me. I should've asked her out back then.

Well why would she be going out with you if there was no interest?

I mean, maybe there's no immediate chemistry, but there is obviously intellectual connection and sometimes it just takes a while for that moment of 'huh, actually i'm finding him more and more attractive' to happen.

Don't give up yet :)

He sounds like the Man of Steel to be honest :yay: I say give it a go. Hell, I ought to take pointers from him and be that "man of few words" and be able to make people laugh. Never really had a good sense of humour to throw around.

As for Thailand... any chance of talking him out of it?

Oh he has his bad points.

Ever since his accident he hasn't had to work because he got a big big payout (obviously, he had a broken neck, it's a huge deal). But he got into a real rut, and he was drinking all the time, partying all the time.

He kind of became completely oblivious to what was going on around him, became so thoughtless in regards to me, and I ended up having a nervous breakdown because of the situation we were living in. We only had a tiny flat and I had a 9-5 job that I hated, and he'd have friends over, drunk and loud, on weeknights, and had absolutely no regard for the fact I couldn't sleep. The first few times I knocked politely on the door. Then I started shouting at people. Finally I used to just lie in bed either gritting my teeth or crying. I'd wake up in the morning to find I had to climb over people to get out my front door. Or that someone had thought it was a good idea to use my smoothie maker to wizz up mince, or that there was a cage with rats in outside my door that we were apparently looking after now.

It was complete hell for a while there.

Before he decided to go back to Thailand again, we were talking about the possibility of him moving to Bristol with me... but I just don't know if he's changed enough for it to be a wise idea to repeat that situation.

And no, it is definitely too late to change his mind. His best friend has bought a ticket too, and he wouldn definitely not let him down now.

Maybe i'll catch him next time around :)

Just make sure he doesn't make it with any girls that are actually dudes over there. :up:

:hehe: That actually happened to him. His exact words were 'I felt something pressing against me that shouldn't be, I excused myself, paid the nice man, and got the heck out of there' :p

Go for the hand hold. My girlfriend said she was really happy I did that on our second date. It's little, but has a good amount of meaning, it's crosses the physical barrier, but isn't as intense as a kiss. If she doesn't pull away though, you've got a good indication you're okay to kiss her.
.

Totally agree with this. Hand holding is such a sweet and simple gesture. I'd absolutely love a guy to hold my hand on a second date :)

Which is why it seems odd to talk about sleeping with someone on the first, second or third date etc. It's like asking for your paycheck before you've even gotten the job or done any work.

And it's why asking someone to be your gf/ bf before you've even gone on a date is extremely premature

Someone might hint at an interest in you, but you still have to attend the interview. One can't say "but she already gave the impression she was interested," and then be expecting any kind of obligation from her.

In Daniel Thompson's case, the girl he messed up with was effectively only scheduling an interview with him at best. Maybe not even that. It might even be more like just sending in his resume/ CV/ application form, and then Daniel demanding to know why the interview hadn't taken place yet.

In Daniel Thompson's defense, I suppose what he's experiencing is like an employer saying 'Hey, I know you want the job, but why don't you come over and we'll just casually chat while I figure out if there is a position open for you... you happy to just hang on with no promise of even an interview while I do that?' and then having them not even show up to the casual chat.

You just wanna know if there is a position open, or if you should move on.

I don't know about that. I've come across some girls who are getting lots of attention from guys, but then they might say to those they don't want to even entertain that they would rather remain just friends. But the thing is that I've never suggested otherwise or to progress beyond that stage yet. I just want the chance to "interview" and don't even know if I would like them or not. It seems a huge overreaction to say "I just want to be friends" if you just suggest grabbing a coffee together. Talk about jumping the gun. :doh:

And I don't think these girls are low on confidence. They have lots of dates every week, although perhaps they think of each of these dates as potentially leading to marriage when it could really just be a series of "interviews" before any relationship.

I think it's more that some of these girls simply do not even want to know me or anything about me, as they will completely blank me out and not even bother to engage in a conversation as if I'm not worthy enough to even acknowledge. That is the kind of behaviour that can lead to damaging one's confidence.

It's literally like an employer picking up your resume/CV (if it has a photo attached to it) and tossing it straight in the trash because they don't like your photo, not because they've even read it or looked to see what qualities you might have that might make you suitable for the job.

In fairness, I won't go for a coffee with someone unless I see the possibility for a relationship.

I've said no to a fair few guys, some of which were just old guys hitting on me because i'm the barmaid, and they are always like 'Oh I didn't mean it like a date, just thought it'd be nice to hang out and have a conversation cause your a really fun interesting person'...

Well newsflash... that IS a date. It means you are interested in me, and if the date went well, you'd want another date. You can pretend you mean it completely platonically all you want... but you don't.

It's not a marriage proposal... but it is a declaration that you're interested in the person. And if i'm not interested back, I won't go for coffee. Simple as.
 
Has anyone here experienced unrequited love?

Well...in my case, I don't think I can call it love. But I met a girl back in mid 2009, that just blew my mind. She left quite an impression on me when I first met her, and subsequently hung out with her for a few hours. I did a few things to try and maybe get to take notice of me, see if I could get myself a date. But it never worked. I don't think she ever got a hint at it. Which left me a little depressed, since I was so taken by this girl, I really wanted something to spark between us. Oh well.:csad:
 
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