The Last Crusade of Relationships

[SuperMike335!!]

If humans are the most dangerous animal then why should we be allowed to pursue relationships that create more humans and more danger?

Should it not be made a law that one human can not have sexual or marital relations with another human, under threat of being charged with a felony?

Why does the law paint relationships sexual and marital with less dangerous animals like monitors, dogs, sheep et cetera as being gross when they are in truth beautiful unions of peace that would prevent the propagation of a threat to the beautiful Earth?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

You never said what the five hundred is for. Anubis guessed stripping.

 

[SpideyVille]

So I've been feeling a little confused lately. Tonight after out rehearsal, I walked the girl I like to the train station and tried to set something up for us to meet tomorrow before rehearsal, and I didn't really get a solid answer for what time she'll be around, if at all before the rehearsal.

But just going after her and walking her to the train is the most I've done for a girl I like in a long time. But for some reason, it feels different this time. I don't know if its because I'm more cautious now, or if I lost that romantic flame that was once in me, but its almost like I haven't been as willing to make an effort with her as I was with girls in the past. Or it could be that I'm trying to force the chemistry to be there between us. But I really don't feel like I'm making any progress and I almost don't care. But this is so unlike me that I don't know what to think.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Life is not the movies and the possibility of you "meeting cute" like in a romantic comedy (I know you mentioned Superman, but it's sounds much more romantic comedy) is slim to none, especially outside of school.

Online dating just really gives you an extra opportunity to meet someone. I met my girlfriend at a time when I was tired of dating and just about to take a break. I got dumped by my ex-girlfriend and spend the next 6 months giving it everything I had and just wound up on bad date after bad date. Got the point in eHarmony where my then future girlfriend and I were exchanging emails and asked her out, along with two other girls, these were my last three dates I was going on, then calling it quits for a while. Two of the dates were the same bad date I'd been on over the past 6 months, but the one with my girlfriend was different, it was great, felt totally comfortable, relaxed, easy. We had a ton of stuff in common and got along great. However, if I just waited for her to walk into my life at some point, it never would've happened, funnily enough we lived in the same areas of Chicago, just at different times, she was even good friends with one of my sister's friends and probably went out drinking with my sister a couple times without even knowing it. In other words, there were times when might've met cute, but just didn't because we weren't on the same path at the same time. Online dating puts yourself out there, waiting for Superman to start working at the Daily Planet, that's more than likely not going to happen.

Well that's precisely why I said that 'I know this may sound silly' to some people, cause I knew I'd get a 'life isn't gonna be like that' response.

I'm completely aware of how rare and unlikely it is.

I'm just willing to wait. Willing to be single until a situation like that happens.

Because TBH, I am sick to death of unrequited love. Absolutely ******* well had enough of it!

So the next time I let myself enter into a relationship of any kind, I wanna know they like me A LOT first.

I just really can't handle another situation where I start to fall for a guy the more I get to know them, and they start to go off me the more they get to know me and tell me that actually they just wanna be friends, or friends with benefits, but nothing more.

I'd rather be single for the rest of my life. I mean it!

I had pathetic unrequited love after unrequited love from the age of 14 - 20. One of those was even with a guy who lied and pretended he loved me back.

And after that I tried online dating a couple of times. But it's not a scenario that creates any sparks for me because it feels so organised. It lacks any spontenaity, any excitement. It's the closest form of dating to the interview scenario because you have literally filled out a CV, applied for a position and arranged an interview.

I haven't loved anyone since I was 20. I just don't do it anymore. You have to really really deserve it.

I've had crushes, sure. I've even felt really loving feelings for guys I'm close to, or have had flings with. But never IN love. Because in my mind now, because of everything I've experienced, I assosiate the feeling of being in love with being pathetic.

So yeah, anyway, the point was, I'm just going to wait. I'll be single my whole life, unless someone can break through that barrier. But it just doesn't feel worth the risk of feeling pathetic again. Not when I've worked so hard to become a completely self sufficient, independant, nobody's push over, take no **** person.

Here's another way to look at online dating, going off the "job interview" analogy. Online dating is like searching Monster or Career Builder or using a head hunter for a job. I'd consider the free sites like Monster or Career Builder The not much of a filter, so it going to take a lot more searching, the paid sites, like eHarmony, are more like a head hunter because they do look at you try to find the most suitable matches. Both are great though. You wouldn't just wait for a job to fall into your lap, why do the same with your love life?

Well a job is more of a neccesity to me than a relationship. I want a career, because I know I won't be happy without one, without some moderate kind of success.

Having spent the last 4 years or more single, I can say for certain now that I know I can be happy without a relationship.

^ Y'know, craziness aside. I wouldn't mind hopeful's version of things either. But I'm pretty convinced that the women around me, especially in college, inherently believes otherwise.

But change? I dunno, I used to believe that there's some side of us that never really will change. But then, the side that everyone looks at, the social image side, that can, and almost always does. I believe in compromise. But at the same time there's that one side of you that you shouldn't change just because other people want you to. There's a fine balance... somewhere.

Yeah I definitely agree with that.

When I say I wouldn't change anything about myself, I don't mean I'd burp in front of a guy on the first date

Obviously you change a little bit in all sorts of social situations. But I think you should try and be honest about the things you think are important about yourself.

For instance, on a first date I'd tell a guy I wanted to be a journalist and had a degree in journalism. I'd tell him I was obsessed with superman and loved films. I'd tell him one day I would love to have written a novel. I'd tell him where I work (office job and barmaid) etc.

I wouldn't tell him that the majority of my friends are druggies and I sometimes dabble. I wouldn't tell him my room is often incredibly messy. I wouldn't tell him about my past relationship, how many people I've slept with, my issues with my dad, the fact I used to cut myself etc.

That's the balance

So I've been feeling a little confused lately. Tonight after out rehearsal, I walked the girl I like to the train station and tried to set something up for us to meet tomorrow before rehearsal, and I didn't really get a solid answer for what time she'll be around, if at all before the rehearsal.

But just going after her and walking her to the train is the most I've done for a girl I like in a long time. But for some reason, it feels different this time. I don't know if its because I'm more cautious now, or if I lost that romantic flame that was once in me, but its almost like I haven't been as willing to make an effort with her as I was with girls in the past. Or it could be that I'm trying to force the chemistry to be there between us. But I really don't feel like I'm making any progress and I almost don't care. But this is so unlike me that I don't know what to think.

Sounds like your falling into my world of 'don't try and you won't get hurt'.

It's a safe place to be, but also kind of depressing. A part of me misses the old 'heart on sleeve' girl I used to be, who fell madly in love with people over the smallest moments.

People tell me that's just growing up though. You loose that innocence.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

So I've been feeling a little confused lately. Tonight after out rehearsal, I walked the girl I like to the train station and tried to set something up for us to meet tomorrow before rehearsal, and I didn't really get a solid answer for what time she'll be around, if at all before the rehearsal.

But just going after her and walking her to the train is the most I've done for a girl I like in a long time. But for some reason, it feels different this time. I don't know if its because I'm more cautious now, or if I lost that romantic flame that was once in me, but its almost like I haven't been as willing to make an effort with her as I was with girls in the past. Or it could be that I'm trying to force the chemistry to be there between us. But I really don't feel like I'm making any progress and I almost don't care. But this is so unlike me that I don't know what to think.

From what happened last week... and all the burning/dying intangibility of my social existence, the only thing I can ask this:

Were you holding hands?

Well that's precisely why I said that 'I know this may sound silly' to some people, cause I knew I'd get a 'life isn't gonna be like that' response.

I'm completely aware of how rare and unlikely it is.

I'm just willing to wait. Willing to be single until a situation like that happens.

Because TBH, I am sick to death of unrequited love. Absolutely ******* well had enough of it!

So the next time I let myself enter into a relationship of any kind, I wanna know they like me A LOT first.

I just really can't handle another situation where I start to fall for a guy the more I get to know them, and they start to go off me the more they get to know me and tell me that actually they just wanna be friends, or friends with benefits, but nothing more.

I'd rather be single for the rest of my life. I mean it!
I had pathetic unrequited love after unrequited love from the age of 14 - 20. One of those was even with a guy who lied and pretended he loved me back.

And after that I tried online dating a couple of times. But it's not a scenario that creates any sparks for me because it feels so organised. It lacks any spontenaity, any excitement. It's the closest form of dating to the interview scenario because you have literally filled out a CV, applied for a position and arranged an interview.

I haven't loved anyone since I was 20. I just don't do it anymore. You have to really really deserve it.

I've had crushes, sure. I've even felt really loving feelings for guys I'm close to, or have had flings with. But never IN love. Because in my mind now, because of everything I've experienced, I assosiate the feeling of being in love with being pathetic.

So yeah, anyway, the point was, I'm just going to wait. I'll be single my whole life, unless someone can break through that barrier. But it just doesn't feel worth the risk of feeling pathetic again. Not when I've worked so hard to become a completely self sufficient, independant, nobody's push over, take no **** person.

Change "pathetic" to "hurtful" and YES. That's... that's exactly the way I feel right now. Sick of unrequited love? You have no idea.

That's perhaps one of the most real reasons why I'm so damned flippant about this girl, because the more I interact with her, that sense of being used, of being wrong, and downright being too emotional just gets in the way. If our feelings work the same way as our mind does, then mine knows that every time I try feeling strongly about someone , that a) it'd backfire, and b) it'd soon result in a glorious fit of depression and even more isolation. Cynicism... on an emotional level, ha!

Maybe "waiting around for the right one" really is a romanticised notion, but y'know what? Like you said, the other person really, really has to deserve it. I'm wondering if that's the same way this other person is feeling, but despite the barriers it's not as if I'm oblivious to other people and how they respond to me. I'm sure if we spoke enough, I'd be able to tell if the other person really does care or not. And I'm still willing to give that a chance.

But it's getting harder with every last one. And in the end, yeah, I do feel like that notion of love and companionship and intimacy that I've been harbouring just... y'know... died.

They'll call it maturity. I won't let them. It hurts.

Sounds like your falling into my world of 'don't try and you won't get hurt'.

It's a safe place to be, but also kind of depressing. A part of me misses the old 'heart on sleeve' girl I used to be, who fell madly in love with people over the smallest moments.

People tell me that's just growing up though. You loose that innocence.

Well, at least you've managed to define your balance mate. I'm still ... working on that (I tend to babble with anyone who's willing to listen, then they call me crazy and backs away. But somehow, the pretentiousness of being an 'aspiring writer' still has some allure haha).

As for that innocence. I dunno, it does seem to have a seasonal cycle about it -- it comes and goes, but yeah it's definitely not as pure or naive as it used to be back when I was 16. I guess socially that's a good thing.

But again, this friend of mine tells me that not everyone deserves the love of an artist, that it's some kind of honour or something. And hell, I dunno, I'm no artist but I do have ambitions to write big and stay original. The only thing I got out of that talk is how feelings, artist or not, really do matter. Like you said, the person has to deserve it. A little selfishness on my part wouldn't really harm the other gender - they've been doing it for years.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Change "pathetic" to "hurtful" and YES. That's... that's exactly the way I feel right now. Sick of unrequited love? You have no idea.

Pfft, obviously I DO!

I could have killed this girl I worked with a while back. I told her I liked one of our regulars, and she TOLD HIM I had a crush on him.

I had to do some serious damage control to make it clear I couldn't give two hoots, and it was just a casual comment that I liked him not some pathetic thing were I've been daydreaming about him and mooning over him.

I HATE it when a guy looks at you like that. I need to be the hard to get one, not the one chasing the guy like a pathetic school girl.

That's perhaps one of the most real reasons why I'm so damned flippant about this girl, because the more I interact with her, that sense of being used, of being wrong, and downright being too emotional just gets in the way. If our feelings work the same way as our mind does, then mine knows that every time I try feeling strongly about someone , that a) it'd backfire, and b) it'd soon result in a glorious fit of depression and even more isolation. Cynicism... on an emotional level, ha!

Well the way I see it is that you can stop falling in love wildly, but that doesn't mean you refuse to give people a go.

It's the ice cream theory.

You get out your little taster spoon. You don't have to eat the whole pot in one go and then wonder why you feel sick

Maybe "waiting around for the right one" really is a romanticised notion, but y'know what? Like you said, the other person really, really has to deserve it. I'm wondering if that's the same way this other person is feeling, but despite the barriers it's not as if I'm oblivious to other people and how they respond to me. I'm sure if we spoke enough, I'd be able to tell if the other person really does care or not. And I'm still willing to give that a chance.

Exactly. There will most probably come a time when someone comes along who IS worth it.

But those people ARE rare if you have a high standard.

And if you don't have a high standard, it's because you really don't want to be alone. You just want someone to love, and as long as they tick a few boxes then you can commit to them.

But if being alone isn't something that bothers you as much as some people, then stick to you high standard all you like.

Why shouldn't you? Do you not deserve something that's better than average? Isn't better than average really all that is worth the risks and the downsides of a relationship?

Why open up your heart to someone who was never even all that right for you in the first place?

But it's getting harder with every last one. And in the end, yeah, I do feel like that notion of love and companionship and intimacy that I've been harbouring just... y'know... died.

They'll call it maturity. I won't let them. It hurts.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's maturity, or that it happens to everyone.

It's mostly us failures that get the relationship cynicism bug

Well, at least you've managed to define your balance mate. I'm still ... working on that (I tend to babble with anyone who's willing to listen, then they call me crazy and backs away. But somehow, the pretentiousness of being an 'aspiring writer' still has some allure haha).

Oh god, I'm a babbling brook pretty early on. Especially after a few drinks... And I do drink a lot... I mean I'm 24 and this is Britain

As for the writer thing, it is sometimes interesting to people, and sometimes they just don't wanna hear it. But either way, it at least makes it clear that your an imaginiative, deep thinking and interesting person.

Not that being an aspiring artist is the only way to have those traits , but you know what I mean.

As for that innocence. I dunno, it does seem to have a seasonal cycle about it -- it comes and goes, but yeah it's definitely not as pure or naive as it used to be back when I was 16. I guess socially that's a good thing.

But again, this friend of mine tells me that not everyone deserves the love of an artist, that it's some kind of honour or something. And hell, I dunno, I'm no artist but I do have ambitions to write big and stay original. The only thing I got out of that talk is how feelings, artist or not, really do matter. Like you said, the person has to deserve it. A little selfishness on my part wouldn't really harm the other gender - they've been doing it for years.

I used to be selfless to the point of martyrdom. Used to always be running around 'rescuing' people.

It took a while, but I learned that no one respects or appreciates it. It doesn't work in a relationship, or with your friends. People will happily take advantage of that kind of behaviour, but they'll rarely do the same for you.

And if you're like that with a romantic partner, you'll get walked all over.

It's psychology again, not neccesarily saying it's cause all people are horrible , it's just human nature.

And once you embrace a bit of selfishness, you'd be surprised how much MORE popular you become. How much more people are willing to do for you and how much more respected you are.

 

[AndThePickles]

Don't worry about playing hard to get so much! There are plenty if guys who enjoy it when a woman makes the first move. I'm the one who first expressed vocal interest in my boyfriend. If you like someone, tell them! You may not get a response every time, but I think that it's well worth the risk.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Don't worry about playing hard to get so much! There are plenty if guys who enjoy it when a woman makes the first move. I'm the one who first expressed vocal interest in my boyfriend. If you like someone, tell them! You may not get a response every time, but I think that it's well worth the risk.

Not in my experience!

If I like a guy, the best way to figure out if he likes me back at all is to feel it out. Casually flirt, make subtle comments etc.

If your good at reading people, which I do consider myself to be, then you can gage whether or not there is any attraction there.

What I find harder to gage is whether or not that attraction has any longevity. Whether or not the person sees you as girlfriend material or 'fun' material.

And that's really the risk your making if you let yourself fall for someone before or while your courting, especially if your the one who makes the first move.

Basically, don't fall for someone until you can see they are falling for you too. And even then, don't fall too hard until your sure.

 

[SpideyVille]

Sounds like your falling into my world of 'don't try and you won't get hurt'.

It's a safe place to be, but also kind of depressing. A part of me misses the old 'heart on sleeve' girl I used to be, who fell madly in love with people over the smallest moments.

People tell me that's just growing up though. You loose that innocence.

I'll admit that its been 2 years since I've really given it my all for a girl, and it wasn't even the rejection that hurt me, but rather some of the other things that the girl told me. And I'll admit that I felt very desperate in that situation, and that is something I don't what to happen again.

But part of me wonders how interested am I really in this girl. Like I almost feel like she's not worth the same effort. And if she were to reject me if I asked her out on a date, I wouldn't really be hurt. I'd just feel a little awkward at rehearsals and when we see each other during the performances next week.

And I think a big part of it is that she's 18 and I'm 23, and from the few conversations that we had, I take it that she's dated a few guys and has way more experience that me. That's kind of a red flag for me and I'd feel like I'd be giving up on all of the things that I believed in when I was younger when it comes to the type of girl I would like to be with.

From what happened last week... and all the burning/dying intangibility of my social existence, the only thing I can ask this:

Were you holding hands?

Nope. No holding hands. I still have my issues with initiating physical contact of any sort.

I've seen with her that as confident as I have been in these past few months and as secure as I've felt about myself, I still buckle under the pressure of girls that I'm interested in.

 

[steintym]

I would avoid asking someone something like this unless they are a therapist or a real long term friend. This would have to be the kind of friend that's been around since childhood. Possibly a female relative. Otherwise they're going to tell you what they think would be attractive and that will probably be wrong.

For the most part I agree, although I think this is probably a special case. Raven seems to desperately want a meaningful relationship and is having a difficult time figuring out where it's falling apart.

Having said that, yes, I do think the advice should be coming from someone very close.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

And I think a big part of it is that she's 18 and I'm 23, and from the few conversations that we had, I take it that she's dated a few guys and has way more experience that me. That's kind of a red flag for me and I'd feel like I'd be giving up on all of the things that I believed in when I was younger when it comes to the type of girl I would like to be with.

What things did you believe in when you were younger about the type of girl you'd like to be with?

And what is it that you DO like about this girl? I mean, why are you wondering whether to go for it with her, but at the same time admitting that you don't actually like her all that much.

Is it just because an attractive girl showed an interest in you so you feel like you SHOULD try?

I've been there. Been on dates just because I was asked, when I knew full well I had no spark with the person... But I felt like I should, because someone not horrendously ugly showed a moderate interest in me and I should be more enthusiastic about that.

You just can't force it though. If there's no spark there is no spark. Move on

 

[steintym]

Don't worry about playing hard to get so much! There are plenty if guys who enjoy it when a woman makes the first move. I'm the one who first expressed vocal interest in my boyfriend. If you like someone, tell them! You may not get a response every time, but I think that it's well worth the risk.

I agree. Hell, I think that's what a lot of guys in here need. There are so many stories of guys being interested in a girl and just won't make a move. I actually think they're waiting for the girl to initiate.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I think a guy playing hard to get only works if they are incredibly hot and even then it can come across a bit arrogant sometimes.

Women are EXPECTED to play hard to get, because men generally like to 'hunt their prey' and women like to feel wanted by being 'courted' by a man.

If you don't play hard to get, then your either 'easy' or desperate in the eyes of a lot of men.

BUT, you can play hard to get and still initiate a date I guess.

Like you could ask a guy out, and if he says yes and asks you where, tell him to surprise you and then the first time he calls, don't pick up etc etc. You can do the hard to get thing once the game is set into motion.

 

[steintym]

And I think a big part of it is that she's 18 and I'm 23, and from the few conversations that we had, I take it that she's dated a few guys and has way more experience that me. That's kind of a red flag for me and I'd feel like I'd be giving up on all of the things that I believed in when I was younger when it comes to the type of girl I would like to be with.

What are we talking about? At 18 does she have that wild of a past?

You're probably being a little unrealistic if you're looking for a girl with little or no "dating" history.

 

[Erzengel]

I'll admit that its been 2 years since I've really given it my all for a girl, and it wasn't even the rejection that hurt me, but rather some of the other things that the girl told me. And I'll admit that I felt very desperate in that situation, and that is something I don't what to happen again.

But part of me wonders how interested am I really in this girl. Like I almost feel like she's not worth the same effort. And if she were to reject me if I asked her out on a date, I wouldn't really be hurt. I'd just feel a little awkward at rehearsals and when we see each other during the performances next week.

And I think a big part of it is that she's 18 and I'm 23, and from the few conversations that we had, I take it that she's dated a few guys and has way more experience that me. That's kind of a red flag for me and I'd feel like I'd be giving up on all of the things that I believed in when I was younger when it comes to the type of girl I would like to be with.

Nope. No holding hands. I still have my issues with initiating physical contact of any sort.

I've seen with her that as confident as I have been in these past few months and as secure as I've felt about myself, I still buckle under the pressure of girls that I'm interested in.

You really have to stop overthinking things. If this happens, or if this happens, well what happens if this happens.

None of it will happen if you don't take a first step. Go out with the 18 year old, if it works out great. If it doesn't it's a learning experience regardless.

I think so many people here rehash the same things over and over and prevents them from getting off their ass and doing something about it.

Seriously, sometimes it's about making mistakes.

 

[SpideyVille]

What things did you believe in when you were younger about the type of girl you'd like to be with?

And what is it that you DO like about this girl? I mean, why are you wondering whether to go for it with her, but at the same time admitting that you don't actually like her all that much.

Is it just because an attractive girl showed an interest in you so you feel like you SHOULD try?

I've been there. Been on dates just because I was asked, when I knew full well I had no spark with the person... But I felt like I should, because someone not horrendously ugly showed a moderate interest in me and I should be more enthusiastic about that.

You just can't force it though. If there's no spark there is no spark. Move on

For me, whenever I see a girl, my first thought is of potential. Like would I potentially go after her if I had the chance. With this girl, the answer was yes. But out of some fear of being hurt and some fear of making things awkward for the show, I decided not to fully go after it. Instead, I was going to let it happen naturally. I wasn't going to go out of my way to make something happen. And I haven't really done that and things have been good so far.

But I guess there's still part of me that doesn't feel ready for a relationship, so I'm trying to just spend time with her, getting to know her as opposed to going out on a date with her or something. I see the potential there, but I don't know if I'm hesitant because I still don't feel ready, or if I really did just lose that spark inside of myself. And of course, this isn't the case of putting all my eggs in one basket because there are other girls that I'm interested in, but this is just the one that I see more often and have more opportunities to connect with.

But still, there does seem to be a little disconnect there and I can't figure out on what level it is and who it is coming from.

What are we talking about? At 18 does she have that wild of a past?

You're probably being a little unrealistic if you're looking for a girl with little or no "dating" history.

I'm not saying I'm looking for someone with no dating history. It's just if she's at 18 and has been with a few guys sexually, whereas I'm at 23 and still with no experience, it seems uneven. I guess my lack of sexual experience and knowledge makes me feel a little more naive and innocent with the topic and I don't really know how to approach the subject because in all honesty, its not something I think about when talking to a girl.

Like I have this other friend who is going to be 20 in a few months and she's dated a few guys, and she's been with her current boyfriend for a few months and she said she's still a virgin, and I find that more admirable because it shows the difference in their character. She said she's just waiting for the right time with the right person, and as silly as it sounds, I respect that more because I can understand that and I also find it a little more attractive. I've always said I'm not the type to do random hook-ups or one night stands, so its hard for me to feel comfortable around people who are into that. But at least I can understand that with people closer to my age. But with someone much younger, it feels a little weird.

 

[SpideyVille]

You really have to stop overthinking things. If this happens, or if this happens, well what happens if this happens.

None of it will happen if you don't take a first step. Go out with the 18 year old, if it works out great. If it doesn't it's a learning experience regardless.

I think so many people here rehash the same things over and over and prevents them from getting off their ass and doing something about it.

Seriously, sometimes it's about making mistakes.

I completely agree, and making mistakes is something that I've always told people to not worry about. But I think for the first time in my life, I'm more scared about asking her out and her saying yes, than I would be if she said no.

 

[Erzengel]

I mean this with all due respect.

Drop a pair and at least attempt it.

 

[SpideyVille]

No you're right. I should start making more of an effort regardless of what happens.

Though to be fair, I did try to set something up for us to meet today before rehearsal and she didn't give me a definite time or answer. She was more like 'It depends' on what time she wakes up and when she'll be on campus, if at all before rehearsal. I've become a little less tolerant of behavior like that, which is ironic because she told me the other day to be more prideful and not sacrifice so much for others if they're not putting in the same effort.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Not in my experience!

If I like a guy, the best way to figure out if he likes me back at all is to feel it out. Casually flirt, make subtle comments etc.

If your good at reading people, which I do consider myself to be, then you can gage whether or not there is any attraction there.

What I find harder to gage is whether or not that attraction has any longevity. Whether or not the person sees you as girlfriend material or 'fun' material.

And that's really the risk your making if you let yourself fall for someone before or while your courting, especially if your the one who makes the first move.

Basically, don't fall for someone until you can see they are falling for you too. And even then, don't fall too hard until your sure.

I think a guy playing hard to get only works if they are incredibly hot and even then it can come across a bit arrogant sometimes.

Women are EXPECTED to play hard to get, because men generally like to 'hunt their prey' and women like to feel wanted by being 'courted' by a man.

If you don't play hard to get, then your either 'easy' or desperate in the eyes of a lot of men.

BUT, you can play hard to get and still initiate a date I guess.

Like you could ask a guy out, and if he says yes and asks you where, tell him to surprise you and then the first time he calls, don't pick up etc etc. You can do the hard to get thing once the game is set into motion.

Well, I think I've identified your problem, you're all about playing games and can't break out of the outdated (and it is outdated) mindset of gender roles. It's 2012, you can make the first move and the first move isn't some coy body language, men, the kind you'd probably want to date, won't pick up on it. Be bold, be daring, ask him out. My girlfriend was the one who contacted me first, I thought it was sexy. She didn't play hard to get, she knew what she wanted and went after it, I was the first one to kiss her, but she was the first to invite me to spend the night at her place. You can't wait for the white knight, he doesn't exsist. Also, playing games is a total turn off for the good guys. Playing games will get you a "bad boy" who loves the thrill of the chase, but once he catches his prey, the thrill is gone and he's looking for another challenge. Stop with the silly games, be a modern, strong, independant woman.

 

[Erzengel]

Doesn't Hopeful tend bar?

I always think that that "scene" is just an awful place to meet people. I know a bunch of people who tended bar, and between the incestious dating/banging between everyone who worked there as well as the regulars, it's no surprise that most of the relationships never worked out.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Don't worry about playing hard to get so much! There are plenty if guys who enjoy it when a woman makes the first move. I'm the one who first expressed vocal interest in my boyfriend. If you like someone, tell them! You may not get a response every time, but I think that it's well worth the risk.

This is true. Some men are so spoiled on the attentions of women that they don't do much chasing anymore. You can still catch them however. In fact sometimes all it takes is to show the guy more emotional investment than the other girls, and it requires something deeper than just sex.

I think a guy playing hard to get only works if they are incredibly hot and even then it can come across a bit arrogant sometimes.

Women are EXPECTED to play hard to get, because men generally like to 'hunt their prey' and women like to feel wanted by being 'courted' by a man.

If you don't play hard to get, then your either 'easy' or desperate in the eyes of a lot of men.

BUT, you can play hard to get and still initiate a date I guess.

Like you could ask a guy out, and if he says yes and asks you where, tell him to surprise you and then the first time he calls, don't pick up etc etc. You can do the hard to get thing once the game is set into motion.

How have the results of that expecting men to do the chasing gone for you?

Sometimes you have to take a risk. Sure, the safe way means you will never get your heart crushed, but it may never be satisfied either.

The heart still dies, but it does not die from hitting the pavement after a rejection, the safe way prevents that. No, instead the heart dies from being starved. Slowly withering into a shadow of its former self, until there is nothing left.

Some man really do like to be chased a bit and have the girl do some of the footwork.

I like to make initial contact with a girl, and then I give her a little less investment than she does me, just to put her in the chaser position, and see how she does.

My fiancé really put herself out there, and did a LOT of the work, and really had her heart on her sleeve. I could have easily emotionally crushed her. Instead, seeing how much she really wanted to be with me, in a relationship, I figured she was worth it.

My attitude was that if someone is working a temp position, and they really seem like they want the job, and they are good at it, why not hire them on as permanent, especially if there is a vacancy?

I’ve been with a lot of women who had a "chase me" attitude, and other than a FWB, I did not continue to chase then but would always move on until I found one who really was willing to put her heart out there for me.

I'm not blind to the fact there is a much greater risk in that, but the greater the risk....

 

[Dark Raven]

Well, I think I've identified your problem, you're all about playing games and can't break out of the outdated (and it is outdated) mindset of gender roles. It's 2012, you can make the first move and the first move isn't some coy body language, men, the kind you'd probably want to date, won't pick up on it. Be bold, be daring, ask him out. My girlfriend was the one who contacted me first, I thought it was sexy. She didn't play hard to get, she knew what she wanted and went after it, I was the first one to kiss her, but she was the first to invite me to spend the night at her place. You can't wait for the white knight, he doesn't exsist. Also, playing games is a total turn off for the good guys. Playing games will get you a "bad boy" who loves the thrill of the chase, but once he catches his prey, the thrill is gone and he's looking for another challenge. Stop with the silly games, be a modern, strong, independant woman.

I agree with this completely.

The problem with games is that not everyone is playing by the same "rules", or they may interpret the "rules" differently according to their experience and what others have told them.

I don't think anyone should play hard to get. It's because of that very thing that guys will be second guessing themselves all the time and wonder whether to make a move or not, or how much talking to someone is too much. If a girl can only tolerate a 1 on the exposure scale before she starts freaking out and thinks the guy is showing too much attention and has used up his quota, and the guy has been told that it's ok to be a 5, then how will either know what to do since they both have different experiences or standards?

There's far too much standing on ceremony.

 

[AndThePickles]

Not in my experience!

If I like a guy, the best way to figure out if he likes me back at all is to feel it out. Casually flirt, make subtle comments etc.

If your good at reading people, which I do consider myself to be, then you can gage whether or not there is any attraction there.

What I find harder to gage is whether or not that attraction has any longevity. Whether or not the person sees you as girlfriend material or 'fun' material.

And that's really the risk your making if you let yourself fall for someone before or while your courting, especially if your the one who makes the first move.

Basically, don't fall for someone until you can see they are falling for you too. And even then, don't fall too hard until your sure.

Well yeah, it's a waste of time if it doesn't appear that the guy is interested at all. However, if you aren't sure, why not try? I guess I can't quite relate to the falling too hard before you've even expressed interest or had the guy approach you...to me, that's just a crush, and if it doesn't work out - on to the next one.

When I was single, it was pretty simple. If I liked a guy - awesome personality, good looking and I would like to do sexual things with him - it was not a big deal if things didn't work out the way I'd like. Plenty of other men in the world. I think that it's really important to keep that in mind (and that applies to the men here in regards to women, too).

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm not saying I'm looking for someone with no dating history. It's just if she's at 18 and has been with a few guys sexually, whereas I'm at 23 and still with no experience, it seems uneven. I guess my lack of sexual experience and knowledge makes me feel a little more naive and innocent with the topic and I don't really know how to approach the subject because in all honesty, its not something I think about when talking to a girl.

Like I have this other friend who is going to be 20 in a few months and she's dated a few guys, and she's been with her current boyfriend for a few months and she said she's still a virgin, and I find that more admirable because it shows the difference in their character. She said she's just waiting for the right time with the right person, and as silly as it sounds, I respect that more because I can understand that and I also find it a little more attractive. I've always said I'm not the type to do random hook-ups or one night stands, so its hard for me to feel comfortable around people who are into that. But at least I can understand that with people closer to my age. But with someone much younger, it feels a little weird.

Well the experience disparity is only going to increase if you stay stalled at the starting block, so a girl with a few (which I take to mean 3) sexual partners is too much. What if it was from two long term boyfriends in high school and that drunken one night stand during the first week of college? What if her first time was very special with someone she trusted and she was ready? My girlfriend was engaged before I met her, she realized it wasn't right and broke it off, a few months later we met. I could let that eat me up inside, but I chose to ignore it, it's in the past, what matters is the present. At the same time, it's something she's learned from, she didn't talk enough about the future with her ex and when they started talking about their wedding and marriage, she realized they weren't on the same page. As a result, as we've gotten closer we've talked about our future and know we're on the same page. Experience can be a good thing, if you let it be. It can also, be a very bad thing.