The Dark Knight The Man Who Laughs: The Joker Thread 2.0

[Ace of Knaves]

yea something obviously terrible has happened to ledgers joker to make him so resentful of life and rules. im not talking about one single thing here though, maybe it was a series of events that made him this way. just think what has happened to this man to make him sooo dissillusioned with the world that he would do the things he does? i'm glad nolan hasn't given him a deffinitive origin but sorta alludes to things that may have happened to him(abusive father) using your imagination can be far more unsettling. i watched begins again last night and something falcone says rang true. "you always fear what you dont understand"

 

[Rincewind]

It has to be series of events, like ace o knaves said. No single trauma can create such monster.

To me, the stories of the scars are the key. See, they are lies, of course, which Joker says to confuse and frighten his victims, but still, I think they are more than that. I'm pretty sure that his scars wasn't given to him from his dad, nor that he did it to himself from compassion to his wife, but I think that both of them - the father and the wife had something to do with his descent to madness.
Perhaps his father was abusive drunkard, who butchered his mother in front of him. And perhaps his wife abandoned him in some kind of very vile way.
Such things happen, but of course you need a lot more than that to create this Joker. His life, in general, has to be a very miserable and wretched story, I think, to break him that bad.
In any case, I think that the scars are not that... old. In a sense, that IMO he has them from quite recently. The only thing I am not so sure about them is what came first - the scars or the total fall to madness. It can work both ways, tho if the scars were first, then he probably recieved them from someone else; and if the madness came first, he may have did them himself.
And now I truly am mad at Batman for not letting him tell one more story at the end :P It could have helped with the clues.

 

[Superhobo]

I don't know why so many people are opposed to what's presented in The Killing Joke - particularly as the ideas presented in it constitute a large part of the film.

Spoiler

*taken from a transcription from another poster, so - *

JOKER
Ugh... You... You just couldn't let me go could you. This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
You... truly are... incorruptible, aren't you? You won't kill me... outta some, misplaced sense of self-righteousness... and I... won't kill you.
Because you're just too much fun. I think, you and I, are destined to do this forever....

BATMAN
You'll be in a padded cell forever

JOKER
Maybe we could share one. You know they'll be doubling up
the rate this cities inhabitants are losing their minds.

BATMAN
This city... just showed you... that it's full of people ready to believe in good...

JOKER
Until... their spirit breaks completely.
Until they get a good look at the real Harvey Dent... and all the heroic things he's done.
You didn't think i'd risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist-fight with you?
No.... you need an ace in the hole... mine's Harvey...

BATMAN
What did you do?

JOKER
I took Gotham's white knight, and I... brought him down to our level.
It wasn't hard... you see, madness as you know, is like gravity... All it takes is a little push!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea i thought theres very strong links to the killing joke but the roles are swapped so that joker is trying to make harvey go mad instead of gordon.

 

[uranewb]

Am I the only one who was incredibly creeped out by the Joker Thug who Harvey almost killed. His chuckle and smirk gave me the creeps.

I wasn't creeped out, but he did a good job acting a schizo. In case you didn't know the actor who plays him is David Dastmalchian

 

[ronny]

Am I the only one who was incredibly creeped out by the Joker Thug who Harvey almost killed. His chuckle and smirk gave me the creeps.

I felt sorry for him. He was just some poor, messed up guy who didn't know what he was doing.
What it boiled down to was Harvey Dent threatening a mental patient.

 

[Bat-Mite]

Mark Hamill as The Clown Prince Of Crime .

I love that guy. Between him and Heath, I can't decide which is my favorite Joker. :heart:

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I felt sorry for him. He was just some poor, messed up guy who didn't know what he was doing.
What it boiled down to was Harvey Dent threatening a mental patient.

harvey wernt really threatening him, because his coin is heads on both sides so he knew he wernt gonna shoot him.

 

[ronny]

It doesn't make what he did right. The guy was ill, he needed help and Dent was just pushing him around. I really felt sorry for him in retrospect. Because regardless of Dent threatening him it was The Joker who took advantage of the guy wasn't it?

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I love that guy. Between him and Heath, I can't decide which is my favorite Joker. :heart:

I love Mark's version alot for BTAS, but Im truly glad we didnt have him cross over into live-action like its been rumored before.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

oh yea no doubt, he obviously had no clue what he was doing and was probly forced to be one of jokers goons.

 

[uranewb]

I felt for the guy, especially when Harvey flips the coin the second time he started tearing up. Poor dude.

That joker, such a manipulator!

 

[Bat-Mite]

I love Mark's version alot for BTAS, but Im truly glad we didnt have him cross over into live-action like its been rumored before.

Yeah, he has a great Joker voice, but doesn't have the look and is a bit too old as well. And if his voice were dubbed over another actor's voice, it would have looked terrible.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Yeah, he has a great Joker voice, but doesn't have the look and is a bit too old as well. And if his voice were dubbed over another actor's voice, it would have looked terrible.

Totally agreed! t:

 

[Spade]

I don't know why so many people are opposed to what's presented in The Killing Joke - particularly as the ideas presented in it constitute a large part of the film.

I've no major problems with the story. It's just the idea that the bleaching should be obligitory in any re-telling, when it's just a nudge into madness.

 

[Coleman Reese]

Has Jack Nicholson reacted yet to TDK's success and Ledger's Joker? I would love to hear what that little diva has to say.

 

[ronny]

Has Jack Nicholson reacted yet to TDK's success and Ledger's Joker? I would love to hear what that little diva has to say.

He's not a diva, he's an alcoholic. There's a world of difference.

 

[Superhobo]

I've no major problems with the story. It's just the idea that the bleaching should be obligitory in any re-telling, when it's just a nudge into madness.

My problem with an origin like The Killing Joke's is that it's not interesting. A no-name comedian loses his wife, falls into some chemicals...and then goes insane? Oh, now he's bleached! Now, and only now, can he start on that killing spree! Wait...what?

wut

 

[Superhobo]

Has Jack Nicholson reacted yet to TDK's success and Ledger's Joker? I would love to hear what that little diva has to say.

When has Jack Nicholson ever been considered a diva?

 

[Spade]

wut

Can't make it any more simple than that. The bleaching's just a nudge towards insanity that should've happened back when the only person he cared about died. It's not a necessity that's essential to every re-telling, though I'm against revising any DC character's comic origin any more than they already have since Infinite Crisis.

 

[uranewb]

When has Jack Nicholson ever been considered a diva?

Well, I don't know if this is being a diva, but as far as I know he's the only actor I know of who gets a guaranteed seat at the Academy Awards every year. Even when he's not nominated or presenting. I find it funny. haha

 

[Keyser Soze]

Well, I don't know if this is being a diva, but as far as I know he's the only actor I know of who gets a guaranteed seat at the Academy Awards every year. Even when he's not nominated or presenting. I find it funny. haha

This is not Jack being a diva. This is Jack being The King of Awesome.

 

[Superhobo]

Well, I don't know if this is being a diva, but as far as I know he's the only actor I know of who gets a guaranteed seat at the Academy Awards every year. Even when he's not nominated or presenting. I find it funny. haha

It's not. Jack Nicholson is so far from being a diva that, during production for one of his films (search me if I know the title), he fell off a horse mid-ride. He then proceeded to get back up, wrangle the horse back himself, and get back on.

Why?

"Because that's how Jack Nicholson is supposed to act."

 

[uranewb]

^
That's true.

 

[Superhobo]

Can't make it any more simple than that. The bleaching's just a nudge towards insanity that should've happened back when the only person he cared about died. It's not a necessity that's essential to every re-telling,

It kind of is, but I don't see how you can quantify at what point somebody should break down - I mean, it's obvious that he's reasonably shocked and upset after he receives the news, and throughout the entire 'robbery' sequence.

But again, it's not really the only variation of the origin out there - there's "Case Study," as well as "Lovers and Madmen" among others. I didn't really enjoy the latter myself, though.

though I'm against revising any DC character's comic origin any more than they already have since Infinite Crisis.

Batman's father is alive. There is no god.