Ant-Man The Official Ant-Man News and Speculation Thread - Part 6

[Webfoot Hero]

I really like what I'm hearing so far from the details that were talked about EW. Sounds like an interesting angle for Marvel to introduce a new set of characters. Main thing that can make or break this film is how all the story parts and character motivations work out in conjunction with one another.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

while I agree with the M:I anology (I hate that franchise with a passion for what they have doe to Phelbs. Unforgivable!) and as a Pym fan myself (as stated somewhere else on the Hype this week, I grew up with the West Coast Avengers, those characters are very dear to me) I have no problem with Pym being the villain for two reasons.

1) Pym is not the 616 Pym anyway with the 70 year old version shown in the movie
2) 616 Pym has always been his own worst enemy and numerous times acted as a villain because of several mental issues (see also: Yellowjacket)

So, as long as there is a redemption arc at the end of the movie, I'd be totally fine with the twist. It worked extraordinairily for Killian/Slattery, it is possible it will work for Pym too

 

[Dark Raven]

while I agree with the M:I anology (I hate that franchise with a passion for what they have doe to Phelbs. Unforgivable!) and as a Pym fan myself (as stated somewhere else on the Hype this week, I grew up with the West Coast Avengers, those characters are very dear to me) I have no problem with Pym being the villain for two reasons.

1) Pym is not the 616 Pym anyway with the 70 year old version shown in the movie
2) 616 Pym has always been his own worst enemy and numerous times acted as a villain because of several mental issues (see also: Yellowjacket)

So, as long as there is a redemption arc at the end of the movie, I'd be totally fine with the twist. It worked extraordinairily for Killian/Slattery, it is possible it will work for Pym too

I won't be ok with it. The general audience will come to think of Pym as the main villain of Ant-Man and that's probably how he'll eventually be written in the comics, as if he always were that. Sure, Pym is 70 years old and not ideally as I would like him, but I still want him to be a hero and to retain that aspect of him.

And many other heroes have acted as villains (eg Iron Man, Reed Richards etc) but in their respective films they aren't portrayed as such so that the general audience come to know them that way.

 

[marcvader]

A film with Pym and Jan as co-leads could've been such an interesting take on the superhero mythos but maybe not fit the lighter MCU and I'm not even thinking of the one time slap.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

The reason I've got on board with Pym being old, is because it helps grow the Marvel World, we know now there have been other heroes, not just Cap and then 70 years until Iron Man, so with Pym being a retired hero, then at least we know other things have happened in the world that haven't occurred on screen.

I always think that is essential to building a world and a universe I like to think other things have happened off screen, not just that the Marvel universe turns on when you watch a film.

Are people just getting this Pym is a villain thing because of EW though, because I'm not sure we should get out of hand with our theories based on what someone from EW might have over heard.

 

[smashmode]

Maybe 1960's Hank pym can show up in Agent Carter

 

[Stormz96]

Posted this in the Yellowjacket thread, but it pertains more towards Pym. Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet:

Spoiler

what if Pym killed Janet under the aforementioned "psychotic affects"? And then maybe shield covered it up, as they were likely involved with the original ant man project. Maybe that's why him and Hope are estranged.

I'll admit, that'd take his character to a very dark place.

 

[Dyson]

Posted this in the Yellowjacket thread, but it pertains more towards Pym. Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet:

Spoiler

what if Pym killed Janet under the aforementioned "psychotic affects"? And then maybe shield covered it up, as they were likely involved with the original ant man project. Maybe that's why him and Hope are estranged.

I'll admit, that'd take his character to a very dark place.

It could that he put her life in danger while wearing the suit.

 

[Ultron-5]

Posted this in the Yellowjacket thread, but it pertains more towards Pym. Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet:

Spoiler

what if Pym killed Janet under the aforementioned "psychotic affects"? And then maybe shield covered it up, as they were likely involved with the original ant man project. Maybe that's why him and Hope are estranged.

I'll admit, that'd take his character to a very dark place.

That's not a bad idea.

 

[Loki882]

Yes it is.

Spoiler

Let's fridge the wife/GF in order to cause the male hero main-pain/angst

is about a cliché and predictable as you can possibly go, no thanks.

 

[Loki882]

A film with Pym and Jan as co-leads could've been such an interesting take on the superhero mythos but maybe not fit the lighter MCU and I'm not even thinking of the one time slap.

Why not? There's ZERO reason why it couldn't work. And it'd be something different for a CBM, whereas the movie as is sounds pretty standard.

 

[marcvader]

Why not what?

 

[Stormz96]

Yes it is.

Spoiler

Let's fridge the wife/GF in order to cause the male hero main-pain/angst

is about a cliché and predictable as you can possibly go, no thanks.

I'm not suggesting they'd go that route, it's just something that hit me watching the trailer and reading the EW article. I'm very iffy on it actually

Spoiler

but I mean, I'm pretty sure Janet is dead in the film. That much is almost certain, as I doubt she doesn't exist at all

 

[The Guard]

Um...where was that? There's some butterfly bandages on his eyebrow in scenes.

My mistake. I watched it on a cell phone at first.

 

[The Guard]

I'm sorry, but that's a dumb criticism. It's a teaser trailer that features nine words (counting "huh") for Scott Lang. It isn't designed to show his personality. So you can't say he "seems to have no actual personality." The teaser is entirely agnostic on that point. You might as well say Darren Cross and Hope Van Dyne have no personality, at least based on the trailer. It's a meaningless criticism.

I'm not disagreeing with much of what you say, but this particular criticism is misplaced.

The fact that a nearly two minute trailer barely shows any of the personality or nature of a completely new superhero is a dumb criticism?

I didn't say that he WON'T have a personality. I'm not trying to judge the film before it has come out. I'm pointing out how the trailer "feels". As a trailer, it doesn't do a very good job portraying Scott Lang as an interesting character.

Lang does indeed seem to have no personality in this trailer (ditto Pym, really). No charisma. Not much presence. In the actual moments we see him, he's quite generic, bland, what have you.

Darren Cross and Hope Van Dyne are not the main characters, and are not the main characters whose identity will need to sell this film. So that's logically less of a concern for a teaser.

But when you present a relatively bland, lifeless Paul Rudd in your trailer, I would think that's something of an issue.

 

[marcvader]

It'd be an or will be a big issue if this were the trailer a couple months out from release.

 

[Village_Idiot]

Four months from now and 27 trailers later , everyone will be complaining that they showed to much

 

[Mike Murdock]

The fact that a nearly two minute trailer barely shows any of the personality or nature of a completely new superhero is a dumb criticism?

I didn't say that he WON'T have a personality. I'm not trying to judge the film before it has come out. I'm pointing out how the trailer "feels". As a trailer, it doesn't do a very good job portraying Scott Lang as an interesting character.

Lang does indeed seem to have no personality in this trailer (ditto Pym, really). No charisma. Not much presence. In the actual moments we see him, he's quite generic, bland, what have you.

Darren Cross and Hope Van Dyne are not the main characters, and are not the main characters whose identity will need to sell this film. So that's logically less of a concern for a teaser.

But when you present a relatively bland, lifeless Paul Rudd in your trailer, I would think that's something of an issue.

It's a teaser. As a teaser, it focuses on one of the two co-leads. I think that's reasonable. We can sort of see the contours of the other's journey (based on the prison scenes and all that). But a full length trailer would be a better opportunity to show Paul Rudd's Scott Lang.

I've probably said this before, but I'll say it again. To me, the best teaser trailer ever featured exactly zero seconds of footage from the film. Instead, it featured audio clips from three actors drawn from two scenes and lasted about one minute.

I'm talking about the Dark Knight teaser:

 

[Quasimod0]

I think people are forgetting that this is a TEASER trailer. Not a full trailer. It doesn't have to show much, or establish the personalities of the characters. I think the trailer did its job fine

 

[Flint Marko]

The fact that a nearly two minute trailer barely shows any of the personality or nature of a completely new superhero is a dumb criticism?

I didn't say that he WON'T have a personality. I'm not trying to judge the film before it has come out. I'm pointing out how the trailer "feels". As a trailer, it doesn't do a very good job portraying Scott Lang as an interesting character.

Lang does indeed seem to have no personality in this trailer (ditto Pym, really). No charisma. Not much presence. In the actual moments we see him, he's quite generic, bland, what have you.

Darren Cross and Hope Van Dyne are not the main characters, and are not the main characters whose identity will need to sell this film. So that's logically less of a concern for a teaser.

But when you present a relatively bland, lifeless Paul Rudd in your trailer, I would think that's something of an issue.

It's a teaser. Principal photography just wrapped up a month ago if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not going to defend this thing too vehemently, but let's not overanalyze it. I agree that it is generic and somewhat bland, but I don't expect this to be bursting at the seams with personality when, truth be told, we got this much earlier than expected. Once the Marvel marketing machine kicks in and we get more footage, then we can start nitpicking how much personality the protagonist may or may not have but until then I'm not going to criticize it all that much. If Marvel is known for anything it's for strongly developing their heroes at the expense of a great protagonist. Not to mention Paul Rudd is known for his charm and likability, I doubt they'd downplay that.
Side note, a friend of mine's older sister is a stylist for movies. She worked on the Hunger Games and a handful of random romantic comedies and once told me she picked up Paul Rudd and drove him to a wardrobe fitting, which took quite some time, so she spent the better part of a day with him. Said he was the nicest guy in the world, genuinely likable and caring, with a great sense of humor. I know that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, and that none of you have any reason to believe that coming from a complete stranger on the internet, but I found it interesting.
She also told me she smoked weed with Jennifer Lawrence and Woody Harrelson but that's a story for another time. t:

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It would also be like the first Mission: Impossible film to me. I was a fan of the TV series and Jim Phelps was always the incorruptible hero of the show. Then in the film, the first thing they do is make him the villain who has sold out because he hasn't had enough recognition etc, as if he were doing these missions for ulterior motives and not simply out of a sense of being a good man.

It didn't bother me because it didn't feel like the real Phelps. If Peter Graves hadn't (wisely) declined I would've probably hated it too but in the end it just felt like Jon Voight was playing a different guy who was also named Phelps.

That said it's still my favorite in the series because it's the only one that feels like Mission: Impossible. The others are pretty good (except 2) but they're missing something crucial to M:I that would otherwise separate them from other generic action/espionage movies.

I think people are forgetting that this is a TEASER trailer. Not a full trailer. It doesn't have to show much, or establish the personalities of the characters. I think the trailer did its job fine

Truth.

 

[Broseph44]

I think people are forgetting that this is a TEASER trailer. Not a full trailer. It doesn't have to show much, or establish the personalities of the characters. I think the trailer did its job fine

Precisely.

 

[Ultron-5]

If Hank Pym gets the Yellowjacket suit back then heres some things that can happen:

1. He puts it on and he goes crazy
2. He changes some stuff around and turns it into the Wasp suit
3. He puts it somewhere safe so nobody evil gets their hands on it
4. He destroys it so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands ever again
5. He fixes it up so it doesn't make him psychotic and he uses it to help out against Thanos (wishful thinking)

 

[chamber-music]

I feel like the plot is not as straight forward as it seems. Pym seems to have a hidden agenda. I just don't think he wants Lang to steal the suit so he he can just take down Yellow Jacket. I dunno, I'm thinking Marvel might pull something on us and have Pym be the actual villain. Maybe I'm just over thinking lol

I don't see 70 year old Douglas suiting up as a hero or villain.

The whole Pym's villainous hidden agenda sounds like The Wolverine with Yashida manipulating Logan and becoming silver samurai.

If anyone is a secret villain it is probably Michael Pena's character. We know he is one of Lang's buddies he meets in prison. Pena's role was said to be important. Originally rumours had it he was a villain. I could see Pena turning on Lang and siding with Cross for money. We see him working at Pym tech with a security badge and gun which could be him in on the heist or he switched sides.

 

[chamber-music]

The specific ants that we'll see in Ant-Man are fire ants, winged carpenter ants, and bullet ants.

Bullet Ants have one of the most powerful and potent venomous stings in the insect kingdom.

The sting of a bullet ant according to some victims is equal to being shot, hence the name of the insect. It is described as causing "waves of burning, throbbing, all-consuming pain that continues unabated for up to 24 hours"