The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

[Mister Meddle]

I can't see anything. Try posting it again.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Um.. I just see you as a person that likes to express his negative opinions. Not a troll. Putting words in my mouth isn't a good idea.

But you were incapable of giving Burton any credit. He took a simple idea, had his people work hard to reinvent the accessory so it would be suitable for a live action movie. Just like the Batsuit. And the glider. If you're unbiased then how come you're incapable of giving credit where it's due? Rather than discrediting the man for what his team achieved. After all Christopher Nolan did use the same grappling gun without making any changes to the concept of it (other than the design). Same thing with the Batman Begins Batsuit. It's low for somebody to say "well screw him, somebody else would've done the same thing somewhere down the road".

eh, I did give credit, but I also expressed my opinions on how ideas actually work, and may have in these cases. no big deal. edit: If someone else had made that movie, they would have given him a grappling gun, what is the big deal in expressing that opinion? I mean, do you agree with me on that?
They designed it well, and maybe someone else wouldn't have designed the look of the gun so well, but it would have been introduced no matter who made the movie. Surely you agree, because it's pretty obvious that was the way to go, so it wasn't ridiculous like Adam West climbing a building with a batarang attachment.

and you were bismirching my reputation, same difference. Lies, and/or wrongful information, which you do not have the honour enough to apologise for. You're not worth my time.
edit: Not only saying that I only come in to say negative things about the Burton films, but will not give him credit as I am some kind of prejudiced fanboy for other incarnations of Batman. bs, i call em as I see em.

oh yeah, giving the thumbs up to CConn, agreeing that I never say anything positive about the Burton films, CConn, a guy who is on my ignore list for constantly talking bs after my posts. Says it all.

Ok, go into the other BR thread, the one about the theatrical release, I was one of the first posters in there and all I did was express the positive things i liked about the film, saying i was elated when I went to see it in the flicks because Burton had put some things onscreen that I had always wanted to see in a live action Batman film. That was just the other week that was posted. You obviously saw it if you went into that thread.

Also, during the discussion on Batman killing in the burton films, I did also post about my fav scenes from the 89 movie, even saying that one particular sequence is still one of my fav Batman onscreen moments out of all the live action films.

 

[Mister Meddle]

eh, I did give credit, but I also expressed my opinions on how ideas actually work, and may have in these cases. no big deal. edit: If someone else had made that movie, they would have given him a grappling gun, what is the big deal in expressing that opinion? I mean, do you agree with me on that?

I'm going to repeat this for the 500th time. And sorry to everyone else that are getting annoyed by it. But they could EASILY put Batman in situations where a rope or some sort of grappling gun isn't needed. So no, I don't agree with you on that. I'm no here to play a "it would've happened" game. I'm stating things the way they are. The fact of the matter is Burton was the first to introduce that exact grappling gun and the exact same idea was used by Christopher Nolan. It's not like he took the concept and improved it. No. It was completely copied from the Keaton grappling gun, other than the design. And there's nothing wrong with that. Never once did you give credit to Burton for that. Instead you just keep recycling your over-used "it would've been used" speech that's based on nothing but guesses.

They designed it well, and maybe someone else wouldn't have designed the look of the gun so well, but it would have been introduced no matter who made the movie. Surely you agree, because it's pretty obvious that was the way to go, so it wasn't ridiculous like Adam West climbing a building with a batarang attachment.

Sigh. They don't always have to put Batman in situations where a rope or a grappling gun is needed. More "would've happened" games.

and you were bismirching my reputation, same difference. Lies, and/or wrongful information, which you do not have the honour enough to apologise for. You're not worth my time.

No lies what so ever. I state everything the way I see things. No bs'ing here.

Ok, go into the other BR thread, the one about the theatrical release, I was one of the first posters in there and all I did was express the positive things i liked about the film, saying i was elated when I went to see it in the flicks because Burton had put some things onscreen that I had always wanted to see in a live action Batman film. That was just the other week that was posted. You obviously saw it if you went into that thread.

Also, during the discussion on Batman killing in the burton films, I did also post about my fav scenes from the 89 movie, even saying that one particular sequence is still one of my fav Batman onscreen moments out of all the live action films.

I went to the thread and you're right. You did have a couple of positive things to say. I'm not going to deny that. But those are only a couple examples. Regardless of that your negatives outweigh your positives. Why? Because 90% of your posts in the Burton-related discussions are anything but positive. Whenever we have casual discussions you're nowhere to be found. We only see you actively posting whenever you have negative things to say. I'm not calling you a troll but when someone does that it really says a lot about the person.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I went to the thread and you're right. You did have a couple of positive things to say. I'm not going to deny that. But those are only a couple examples. Regardless of that your negatives outweigh your positives. Why? Because 90% of your posts in the Burton-related discussions are anything but positive. Whenever we have casual discussions you're nowhere to be found. We only see you actively posting whenever you have negative things to say. I'm not calling you a troll but when someone does that it really says a lot about the person.

and I didn't say anything negative about BR in that thread either did I? All I talked about was the positive things I took away from the movie.

Apart from that, the only big discussion i have been involved in on these boards in recent times was the one on Batman killing people, now, I never meant for that to be a massive ongoing debate, I merely stated my opinion on the axis chemicals scene. It's not my fault if numerous other posters come in and keep at it, and i have to keep replying to them to explian my p.o.v.
So, y'know, because it may have looked like I was only moaning about the film, due to the abundance of posts ion that one matter, I ended up making a point of saying that I got a lot of enjoyment out of the Burton movies back in the 90s(when I re-watched them way too much), and cited aspects of the 89 movie that I still really liked.
Even going on to defend aspects of the movie from another poster when he disagreed with me that certain scenes worked.

and as for the grappling gun thing, man, forget about it, I'm not trying to take credit away from anyone, I just think that out of all the elements that Burton brought to the movie, that was the least of them. Why? Because that apsect was inevitable, imo. there were other aspects he brought to the screen that I feel were much more unique, and may not have existed without him and his team's particular work.
He brought in a guy who could do the Batman voice extremely well, that was a first.
He brought a real unique feel to Gotham city onscreen, that was a first.
He and the designers brought the Bat-Wing to the screen, a design for a 'bat-plane' that was so brilliantly simple, I'm amazed no-one ever did that in the comics, much improved over a normal plane with a bat-sticker on the side, that was a first.
The bat-mobile design...the Joker having a permanent grin...*these* are elements that he should be getting lauded for the most, *these* are the elements that another director bringing a serious Batman to the screen for the first time may well not have brought to life....but the graplling gun, man, haha, you know my opinion on that one, so I won't repeat it.

 

[GothamAlleys]

and as for the grappling gun thing, man, forget about it, I'm not trying to take credit away from anyone, I just think that out of all the elements that Burton brought to the movie, that was the least of them.

And I disagree about that. The reason is, throughout all those decades, he either used his arms to throw a line or in the 80s started using a cylinder-like device. So I agree they would give him some kind of a device to shoot it from, but I disagree it would be like a handgun

the Joker having a permanent grin...

Well, Burton didnt invent that. Kane and Finger did back in 1940. The frozen grin on Joker was there till the early 80s. Theres much more on that here in the beginning - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2010/09/complete-history-of-joker.html

*these* are elements that he should be getting lauded for the most,

I would applaud more bringing a black armor with sculpted/stylized muscles which is used to this day and the very signature for Burton black around the eyes

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I can't get over how much this music embodies the characters for me... Say what you will about Elfman but he knew how to capture the essence of a character and practically wrote a opera for this movie.

[YT]MqhbPhmVC04&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8107A023B1A89E08[/YT]

 

[CConn]

For those of you following along at home, I actually had a rather jovial conversation with bum no more than 2 weeks ago in with no mention of him being bothered by my "bs" or anything about me being put on ignore.

It's just another example of how he apparently quite likes to revise his opinion and history itself to better suit his argument.

Granted, in that jovial conversation, he also boasted that he wasn't going to post in these boards anymore, so we all see how that turned out too.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Granted, in that jovial conversation, he also boasted that he wasn't going to post in these boards anymore, so we all see how that turned out too.

I guess some really cant stand that positive talk about older movies. It must be really frustrating to see some people liking these movies

 

[Mister Meddle]

and I didn't say anything negative about BR in that thread either did I? All I talked about was the positive things I took away from the movie.

Apart from that, the only big discussion i have been involved in on these boards in recent times was the one on Batman killing people, now, I never meant for that to be a massive ongoing debate, I merely stated my opinion on the axis chemicals scene. It's not my fault if numerous other posters come in and keep at it, and i have to keep replying to them to explian my p.o.v.
So, y'know, because it may have looked like I was only moaning about the film, due to the abundance of posts ion that one matter, I ended up making a point of saying that I got a lot of enjoyment out of the Burton movies back in the 90s(when I re-watched them way too much), and cited aspects of the 89 movie that I still really liked.
Even going on to defend aspects of the movie from another poster when he disagreed with me that certain scenes worked.

and as for the grappling gun thing, man, forget about it, I'm not trying to take credit away from anyone, I just think that out of all the elements that Burton brought to the movie, that was the least of them. Why? Because that apsect was inevitable, imo. there were other aspects he brought to the screen that I feel were much more unique, and may not have existed without him and his team's particular work.
He brought in a guy who could do the Batman voice extremely well, that was a first.
He brought a real unique feel to Gotham city onscreen, that was a first.
He and the designers brought the Bat-Wing to the screen, a design for a 'bat-plane' that was so brilliantly simple, I'm amazed no-one ever did that in the comics, much improved over a normal plane with a bat-sticker on the side, that was a first.
The bat-mobile design...the Joker having a permanent grin...*these* are elements that he should be getting lauded for the most, *these* are the elements that another director bringing a serious Batman to the screen for the first time may well not have brought to life....but the graplling gun, man, haha, you know my opinion on that one, so I won't repeat it.

Say what you want. I stand by everything that I said. Usually you're nowhere to be found (other than a couple times) unless you have negative things to say. But if I'm wrong then perhaps changing your trend in the future.

 

[CConn]

I guess some really cant stand that positive talk about older movies. It must be really frustrating to see some people liking these movies

I believe it was more due to people "being mean to him".

I was called a t*** the other day. You don't see me crying.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I believe it was more due to people "being mean to him".

I was called a t*** the other day. You don't see me crying.

But I mean this must be the reason why he keeps coming back to rain on our parade.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Say what you want. I stand by everything that I said. Usually you're nowhere to be found (other than a couple times) unless you have negative things to say. But if I'm wrong then perhaps changing your trend in the future.

Aye, despite offering proof to the contrary, you won't back down or admit you were wrong, welcome to my ignore list, same with that Gotham Alleys guy, not worth talking to whatsoever, he was obviously trying to bait me into an argument back there.
I hardly ever post in here anyway, when you get reactions like this, after posting well presented arguments, that other posters agree with, that you obviously don't like because you don't agree with them, it's time to block such dishonorable debaters.

 

[uniqueweasel]

I still love Batman Returns, even after the new incarnaion of Batman, is that a bad thing to say in this thread?!

 

[Two-Face]

I still love Burton Bat films they remind me of Finger/Kane Batman.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

In a decade... people will be calling the Nolan films boring, wordy and stiff when there is a new comic-accurate version on the screen.

Its the way things go. Bat-fans have a tendancy to leap on the band-wagon.

They are like little kids clutching to their favorite teddy bear... until daddy brings them home a new and improved bear.

 

[CConn]

...and bum has just had 3 people come out of nowhere purely to disagree with him.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

In a decade... people will be calling the Nolan films boring, wordy and stiff when there is a new comic-accurate version on the screen.

Its the way things go. Bat-fans have a tendancy to leap on the band-wagon.

They are like little kids clutching to their favorite teddy bear... until daddy brings them home a new and improved bear.

The problems I have with the Burton movies back in the 90s are the exact same problems I have with them today. Just as the things i liked about them are the same, my opinion never changed because new Batman movies were made.

These kind of statements(and i have read this before from another poster) just goes to prove that you can't really say anything negative about the films without some Burton fans not being not handle it, and accusing you of being someone who does not have strong opinions, or that you only ever post negative opinions.
Really, thank you for posting this, it just totally backs me up.

 

[CConn]

It really doesn't at all, but okay.

(I'm quite enjoying being on his ignore list)

 

[GothamAlleys]

He accuses others of disliking him cause he disagrees with them yet he does the same thing calling us sensitive Burton fans when we disagree with him and puts us on his ignore list.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

This message is hidden because is on your ignore list.

 

[CConn]

'This message is hidden because is on your ignore list.'

I know!

 

[CConn]

He accuses others of disliking him cause he disagrees with them yet he does the same thing calling us sensitive Burton fans when we disagree with him and puts us on his ignore list.

Oh, he's thoroughly insane.

He exhibits all of the traits he lambasts other people for having, then acts like an injured puppy when he's actually given in a small portion of his own medicine.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

i took you all off the ignore list, so there.

 

[Mister Meddle]

LOL he ignored me because I wouldn't agree with him. Somebody is thinking highly of himself. Well um at least I'm off this super-rad elite list that was invented by none other than the bum himself.

 

[CConn]

Hah. This is a masterful performance.

Akin to Othello or Henry the VIII or Pee Wee Herman.

Brilliant.