The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 3

[Stu]

Thank you!
= )

 

[ShaneHelms]

 

[Rorschach2012]

the Batman Returns suit was so awesome

 

[antsman41]

It was so slick and sexy; literally the black rubber version of Neal Adams...

 

[Travesty]

Yeah, it looks really good.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I've finally decided it's my favorite of the two.

 

[DCW]

It never gets old seeing Keaton in the batsuit.

 

[ShaneHelms]

As much as I love the 89 suit, I have to go with Returns as my favorite.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I always liked how Burton's Penguin was a monster (physically and mentally) trying to pass himself off as a sophisticated gentleman. Even when he was trying to be charming, the inner sleaze was just under the surface.

 

[ShaneHelms]

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I always liked how Burton's Penguin was a monster (physically and mentally) trying to pass himself off as a sophisticated gentleman. Even when he was trying to be charming, the inner sleaze was just under the surface.

Which makes him a pretty faithful adaptation of the Penguin.

 

[CountOrlok]

Tim Burton's Penguin is actually pretty faithful to the comics, except for living in the sewers and the circus freak idea.

He is an outcast with a rich family, rejected by his family and society, just like the comics. He has a weird appearance, he uses all kinds of umbrella weapons, a criminal mastermind/gang leader, kinship with birds/penguins and he wears his classic suit from the comics (although more Victorian looking clothes).

One other thing they didn't include is his business interests, although he was pretty adept at blackmailing Max Shreck.

The Penguin also ran for Mayor in the 60s tv show.

[YT]bgJ5AcsXp4M[/YT]

 

[The Joker]

The Penguin has also never wanted to kill all the first born kids of Gotham for vengeance. Penguin is a villain motivated primarily by profit.

Pre Batman Returns he never had an origin where he came from a rich family. In the comics he came from a middle class family that owned a bird store. His family never rejected him either. His father died of pneumonia when he was a boy, and his mother raised him. She forced him to carry an umbrella everywhere so he would never get caught in the rain and die of pneumonia like his father did. That's where the umbrella obsession came from.

That's not to say Returns didn't get some key aspects of Penguin right. The fondness for birds (his pet penguins, the canary in the bird cage), the fabulous array of umbrellas of which several came from the comics like the gun, knife, and helicopter one;

There was other things like the proposal to Catwoman:

Penguin liking to live in the cold/preferring colder temperatures;

Framing Batman:

And eating raw fish:

 

[CountOrlok]

I got all my info on Penguin from: http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Penguin

 

[The Joker]

That's why I never trust Wikipedia, especially ones that don't cite sources for their information.

Though in one of the later origin stories they turned his mother into a *****;

 

[CountOrlok]

[YT]cMgL9e6NnrI[/YT]

 

[The Joker]

[YT]cMgL9e6NnrI[/YT]

The guy narrating that video is wrong. He didn't come from a wealthy family. All they owned was a bird store. I've just posted a scan of it above.

In fact the scans they showed in that vid of Penguin as a kid came from this issue (which I own);

I can post scans from it if you want. Just say the word.

 

[CountOrlok]

I don't need to, I have all the batman issues in a torrent, so I can download and read any one of them any time I want to.

 

[The Joker]

Ok, so you know that it's a fallacy. His origin pre Batman Returns never had his family being wealthy or rejecting him.

Not that I think that's a bad origin for Penguin, being rejected by a wealthy family because he's different. On the contrary it's a good way to make him want to crave acceptance into the high society his family came from.

 

[CountOrlok]

I haven't read it yet, but I'll read it once I download it and see if WatchMojo is wrong.

 

[CountOrlok]

Born Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot, the Penguin was bullied as a child for his short stature, obesity, and beak-like nose. These traits made him an outcast in his rich, high society family; their rejection drove him to become a criminal.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Oswald_Cobblepot_(New_Earth)

First of all, The Penguin’s real name is Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot, son of Tucker and Miranda Cobblepot, exponents of one of Gotham City’s most ancient and wealthy families.

http://moviecomicswhoswho.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/oswald-chesterfield-cobblepot-the-penguin/

(Nice new avatar btw)

 

[Ultron-5]

This movie used to give me nightmares when I was little. Nowadays, I think it is one of the best Batman movies.

 

[The Joker]

Born Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot, the Penguin was bullied as a child for his short stature, obesity, and beak-like nose. These traits made him an outcast in his rich, high society family; their rejection drove him to become a criminal.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Oswald_Cobblepot_(New_Earth)

First of all, The Penguin’s real name is Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot, son of Tucker and Miranda Cobblepot, exponents of one of Gotham City’s most ancient and wealthy families.

http://moviecomicswhoswho.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/oswald-chesterfield-cobblepot-the-penguin/

I'll assume you, like the people who wrote those links (not surprised at the Wikipedia one), didn't read the origin comics. Pre Batman Returns he didn't come from a rich high society family. His dad was dead (died of pneumonia after being caught in the rain which is why his mum forced him to carry an umbrella all the time), and his mother owned a grotty little bird store. That's it. The pictorial proof is right above you.

If you had read the Secret Origins comic you claim you have on your computer, you'd known that. Like I said I can post more scans and show you how wrong these sources are. Just say the word.

EDIT; just read this in your second link;

'Even his own brothers, Jason, William and Robert shared with Tucker the same disgust and disdain towards Oswald.'. That explains it. They're basing it on the latest origin they did for him in 2011 in a mini called Penguin: Pain and Prejudice http://www.dccomics.com/graphic-novels/penguin-pain-and-prejudice

In it they put him in a wealthy family, gave him three brothers, and turned him into a psycho kid killer. He murdered his whole family except his mother. That's why I kept saying to you that coming from a wealthy family was not his origin pre Batman Returns. It wasn't even his origin until 3 years ago.

(Nice new avatar btw)

Thanks. I wanted one that covers the Jokers from all the major popular Batman franchises; 60's show, 80/90's movies, BTAS, TDK trilogy, and the Arkham game series.

 

[CountOrlok]

Well if Batman Returns introduced the idea first, and it then made it into the comics afterwards, that's good enough for me. Evidence that Batman Returns has left a lasting legacy on the Batman franchise.

 

[The Joker]

That's a different argument altogether. You're talking about impact. You can't even definitively say it was the movie they got the idea from (nearly 20 years after the movie), since that horrible cartoon, The Batman, did the wealthy family angle with Penguin as well.

You were talking about comic book faithfulness to the Penguin, and at the time coming from a wealthy family was not one of them. Burton and DeVito didn't want Penguin to be like the comics or any previous incarnations;

Upon their first meeting, it became apparent that the director wanted a characterisation that bore little or no resemblance to previous Penguins. ''The last thing I wanted to hear from Tim was that we were going to do the Penguin from the comic book or the TV series,'' recalls DeVito.

http://www.angelfire.com/film/batman/movies/returns/cast/penguin.html

That included his origin.