Batman Returns The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 4

I think I have to go with Dr. Chase Meridian as the hottest Batman love interest, but I wouldn't argue with you if you said Selina or Vicki.

Sorry Vendela!
 
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This movie and the graphic novelization by Dennis O'Neil is seared into my brain forever. I mean that in a positive way lol

I still have the video game too:

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I think the marketing really did well in conveying and benefiting from the then-novelty of there being two villains the hero had to confront.
 
And plus the two villains they chose lent themselves to such a great tagline with The Bat, the Cat, and the Penguin. It rolls off the tongue so easily and, as is usually the case with Burton's films, has a playfully kooky quality to it to contrast with all the dark and morose imagery in the promotional materials.
 
I just love how weird this movie is. It was so different in comparison to Batman 89 and it felt almost anti corporate in a way. Each performance in the movie is a stand out, and while some people feel like keatons Batman was sidelined, I actually don't think so.
 
I just love how weird this movie is. It was so different in comparison to Batman 89 and it felt almost anti corporate in a way. Each performance in the movie is a stand out, and while some people feel like keatons Batman was sidelined, I actually don't think so.

"Sidelined" is a POV based on a lack of context. Sure, Wayne would be sidelined as a character if Burton had no interest in him, but anyone who tries to digest the making of the movie at all would know making Batman minimal in the narrative was a conscious choice by Burton to portray him accurately (in his eyes). Whether it works for someone is another matter, but Burton honestly feels that Batman is supposed to be (and is better served by being) mysterious. It's an artistic choice, not an oversight.

The other matter is, of course, that Burton crafts his narratives to unfold with a lot of subtext. He likes just implying a lot of things without confirming. While I think this is a natural part of art (how many paintings use text to convey their intent?), I concede that it certainly made his Batman films open to negative interpretations. A catch 22, I suppose. While someone can look at Batman Returns and find a portrait of Bruce Wayne being reflective of his city and it's inhabitants (The Cat, The Penguin and Schrek are basically Wayne, tri-sected), others can come away from the film feeling like Batman isn't there.
 
"Sidelined" is a POV based on a lack of context. Sure, Wayne would be sidelined as a character if Burton had no interest in him, but anyone who tries to digest the making of the movie at all would know making Batman minimal in the narrative was a conscious choice by Burton to portray him accurately (in his eyes). Whether it works for someone is another matter, but Burton honestly feels that Batman is supposed to be (and is better served by being) mysterious. It's an artistic choice, not an oversight.

The other matter is, of course, that Burton crafts his narratives to unfold with a lot of subtext. He likes just implying a lot of things without confirming. While I think this is a natural part of art (how many paintings use text to convey their intent?), I concede that it certainly made his Batman films open to negative interpretations. A catch 22, I suppose. While someone can look at Batman Returns and find a portrait of Bruce Wayne being reflective of his city and it's inhabitants (The Cat, The Penguin and Schrek are basically Wayne, tri-sected), others can come away from the film feeling like Batman isn't there.
Yeah that's pretty well put actually. I always just saw it as Burton saying "okay, you know this Batman already and you're familiarity to him means we don't have to hinge the focus of the film on him". I mean I don't entirely think Batman 89 and Batman Returns flow together as a seamless point A to point B anway. Returns is as a sequel for sure, but it almost feels like a standalone movie in it's own world that doesn't really need the 89 film to have it's own existence. Which I think is another reason Batman is used the way he is in Returns and, for me anyway, it works overall. Returns feels like a more diverse movie for that reason, in my opinion. It also makes it feel that much weirder too.
 
Polygon - Batman Returns is the most anti-franchise franchise film ever made
Revisiting Tim Burton’s weird, defiant rewriting of the Batman mythos, 30 years later

Penguin (Danny DeVito) and Catwoman (Michelle Pfeiffer) were always meant to be the film’s villains. Warner Bros. made this immovable decision early on, running down Batman’s rogues’ gallery and picking the names they considered most popular after Joker.

Kind of slight correction, WB wanted Penguin from the beginning and liked or also wanted Catwoman and but Burton also wanted, was eager to do Catwoman from day one of open to do a sequel, according to Hamm Burton was even more eager for her than WB.

While the first film shows Bruce trying to play aloof socialite in his mansion parties, Returns renders him as even moodier and more withdrawn.

I liked that the Bruce depiction was very moody and yet more engaging, both against Max and with Selina.

Does Bruce Wayne in Batman Returns actually want to help the people of Gotham, or does he simply like the way a crook’s jaw cracks against his gloved fist?

I think it legitimately is both, maybe a bit more yes the punishing the bad guys aspect but the more noble helping others aspect is also strong. There's an element of, like Catwoman openly says why do you need my help, but he mostly suppresses that and still does care for them.
 
Damn it's been 30 years since this film came out. I hadn't discovered this until I watched it on VHS when we had Batman Forever and Batman & Robin (97) at the time. Also, I forgot to get some damn McDonalds yesterday.
 
I feel like my appreciation for this movie has grown more and more over the years. I'm pretty sure it has risen in my rankings a bit, and is now tucked firmly right under TDK trilogy for me. I also think it's aged better than Batman 1989, which is still a solid movie on it's own too.
 
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Well even though it hasn't quite been thirty years yet since I personally saw it a year later on HBO, I still remember a lot of the marketing around the movie. Specifically the Happy Meal toys. Batman Returns was the first superhero movie I ever saw and it'll always have a special place in my heart. It may not be the best Batman movie but it's a wonderful Tim Burton movie.

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"Well, Alfred, that was a ****in' weird one."

Has the same vibe of 'Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast.'
Even the cat's like, "Damn, did that all really just happen?"
 
Batman 89 and Batman Returns are such different beasts that I almost don't even feel the need to compare them. I think both are wonderful in their own ways. You can't get to Batman Returns without Batman 89 re-inventing the character for pop culture and making all the money, to the point that they just let Burton do whatever he wanted with the sequel.

I still really wish we got to see Burton complete a trilogy. I would've loved to see if he would've melded some of the gothic fairytale sensibilities of Returns with the more pulp noir/comic booky feel of 89. It's clear with Returns that he had little interest in repeating himself with the franchise so it would've no doubt been interesting. It would also be interesting to see how Returns would've functioned as a middle chapter in a larger body of work. It's a pretty downer film in the end. A little flicker of light there with Catwoman appearing, but it's a pretty grim story about broken people. Penguin's death haunted me as a kid. This movie shows you a grotesque, despicable monster, does absolutely nothing to redeem him, yet compels you to feel sympathy for him in his last pathetic moments. That was some real sh** to be processing if you were a kid watching this movie.

Over the years my heart has warmed a bit more to 89, but it never ceases to blow my mind that Returns is the movie that it is. Happy 30th to the movie that really started it all for me.
 
Has always been my favourite of the original four movies. Adore everything about it.

PS. That was Doug Jones?! Did everyone know this already?

Yep, that’s me with Michael Keaton, as the credits read: “Thin Clown - Doug Jones” (a title I’ve lived with all my life).
Join me in celebrating 30 years of BATMAN RETURNS (1992).

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