Batman Returns The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 4

[titansupes]

I always saw it as;

1) Selina was too naïve... her mentioning the password was an accidental consequence about trying to prove her worth to Max.

2) Bruce mentioning that wasn't a huge 'secret' and assuming there were articles Burton never showed from the Gotham newspapers also making the connection. I really wish we got more Bruce in the public in these two films, I understand the recluse vibe '89 had, but Keaton and Burton (plus Waters) rocked the tough businessman and the comedy with Bruce/Selina in that scene.

I think you're right about Selina.

As for Bruce pulling the "Oswald runs the Red Triangle Gang. I can't prove it yet, but--" thing, I think it's reasonable that these ultra-elite movers and shakers who are trying to assert their wills on a major city would do their due diligence on each other and dig up dirt about business partners.

Doesn't necessarily point to "I'm Batman". Especially considering Bruce's evidence at the time was a presumably fairly accessible newspaper article.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I think that Batman Returns is officially my favourite Batman film. It's been a long time since I've tried to pin down a favourite - and I think there's just something magical about this film.

The Nolan Trilogy (all three) occupy spots 2-4 - but Returns is king, to me.

What I love about YouTube reaction videos where they watch this film and '89 is the sheer amount of people that are saying Returns is superior. Makes me happy.

 

[SteelOsnick11]

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Picked up this beauty on eBay for $30. Worth it!

 

[antsman41]

Where's our S.H.Figuarts Batman Returns figure?

 

[SteelOsnick11]

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I really forgot how much I loved the Burton films. I really did.

 

[SteelOsnick11]

my tribute to Mr. Keaton's badassery!

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Where's our S.H.Figuarts Batman Returns figure?

As much as I love Batman ‘89 and have liked most of the recent merchandise we’ve been getting, I can’t help but feel that they are totally overlooking the Batman Returns suit. Shame too because it is a beauty. Better cowl and sharper looking bat emblem

 

[Matt.S99]

There is a shameful lack of Returns merch. It’s really weird that they only seem to be making statues. Hot Toys needs to rerelease the Returns Batman and give us a Catwoman and Penguin figure.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

There is a shameful lack of Returns merch. It’s really weird that they only seem to be making statues. Hot Toys needs to rerelease the Returns Batman and give us a Catwoman and Penguin figure.

The Returns Hot Toys Batman is my most sought after action figure ever.

I have a Dark Knight Trilogy Batman, and a Pattinson on the way - both from Hot Toys.

But Returns needs a re-release because I'm not going to pay $500-$1000 secondhand.

 

[Matt.S99]

The Returns Hot Toys Batman is my most sought after action figure ever.

I have a Dark Knight Trilogy Batman, and a Pattinson on the way - both from Hot Toys.

But Returns needs a re-release because I'm not going to pay $500-$1000 secondhand.

Same, man. Same. I think I’m going to be getting the DX19 soon and I’m super stoked about that, but my collection will never feel even close to complete without my favourite Batman. My custom Pfeiffer Catwoman is very lonely.
I’m hoping they reissue the Returns version with the Flash film coming out. (In addition to the new suit)

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but there’s almost too much 89 merch right now. Virtually nothing from Returns besides a couple statues here and there

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Same, man. Same. I think I’m going to be getting the DX19 soon and I’m super stoked about that.

The DX19 is awesome, very worth it. I don't have comic book merch or toys around my place but a few small items - and the DX19 is one of them and I'd love to have Returns' Batman next to him.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but there’s almost too much 89 merch right now. Virtually nothing from Returns besides a couple statues here and there

'89 has been getting all the love and attention merch-wise for a long time, now. I'm tired of seeing Burton/Keaton only meaning '89. Even the revival comic scrapped the Returns suit and named the comic after the previous film.

And it looks like in the Keaton revival appearance in the upcoming Flash film reverts back to the '89 cave design and also the Wayne Manor of returns in favor of a house more resembling the '89 one. When I really feel the second film's cave/manor are far superior.

It just comes off as Returns as the redheaded stepchild Batman film that everyone casts aside in favor of the golden child '89.

I think it's because '89 was a bigger cultural phenomenon and #nostalgia has been the in-thing for awhile. I'd argue that film was a better cultural phenomenon than a better film.

That said, there are a lot more Returns items around than I thought. The last few years we've gotten those 18inch (maybe bigger, I don't know) dolls of Penguin and Catwoman. There's some vehicle pack sets from the film that I've seen recently, too.

Batman Returns also got a kids Christmas book adaptation that's really well done.

 

[Matt.S99]

Here’s a little BR fan art I did a couple weeks back

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Is Batman Returns getting the shaft, yet again?

Seems like in The Flash (2023), Wayne Manor is made to look more like the '89 version, and they've changed back to the '89 cave after it was refined/improved in Returns.

Between that and the Burton Batman comic series (even being called '89) almost pretending the second film didn't happen, I'm a little miffed,

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Is Batman Returns getting the shaft, yet again?

Seems like in The Flash (2023), Wayne Manor is made to look more like the '89 version, and they've changed back to the '89 cave after it was refined/improved in Returns.

Between that and the Burton Batman comic series (even being called '89) almost pretending the second film didn't happen, I'm a little miffed,

Personally, I much prefer the aesthetics of 89 to the way Returns looks. I'm a big fan of Returns, in a lot of ways its a superior film to 89, but I think decades of Burton turning his signature style into little more than lazy branding for him to slap on his extremely low effort cinematic output has rather soured me on it.

It's really that deeply funny, satirical Daniel Waters screenplay that makes Returns for me. There are very few comic book movie plots that can compete with Walken's insane plan to run Penguin for Mayor.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Is Batman Returns getting the shaft, yet again?

Seems like in The Flash (2023), Wayne Manor is made to look more like the '89 version, and they've changed back to the '89 cave after it was refined/improved in Returns.

Between that and the Burton Batman comic series (even being called '89) almost pretending the second film didn't happen, I'm a little miffed,

Neither project ignores the existence of Returns. But for a product marketed toward a mass audience (not geeks), of course they're going to try to evoke the more universally liked of the two films.

It's really that deeply funny, satirical Daniel Waters screenplay that makes Returns for me. There are very few comic book movie plots that can compete with Walken's insane plan to run Penguin for Mayor.

After Trump and the modern Republican party, the plot to position DeVito's Cobblepot for mayor is believable. Hell, the scene with the Gothamites falling for Penguin's performative cemetery BS was scarily prescient.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Neither project ignores the existence of Returns. But for a product marketed toward a mass audience (not geeks), of course they're going to try to evoke the more universally liked of the two films.



After Trump and the modern Republican party, the plot to position DeVito's Cobblepot for mayor is believable. Hell, the scene with the Gothamites falling for Penguin's performative cemetery BS was scarily prescient.

I know! Such a great, funny script. Can really tell its the same writer as the brilliant and endlessly quotable Heathers.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I guess I was hoping for more visual continuity from the last film.

I don't know if '89 is the more liked film, but it certainly seems to be the more nostalgic one which is the bread and butter of a lot of pop culture/film these days.

It's '80s (barely) which is all the rage, and it was a pop culture phenomenon. I love '89, but I still call it a better event than a better film.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I guess I was hoping for more visual continuity from the last film.

I don't know if '89 is the more liked film, but it certainly seems to be the more nostalgic one which is the bread and butter of a lot of pop culture/film these days.

It's '80s (barely) which is all the rage, and it was a pop culture phenomenon. I love '89, but I still call it a better event than a better film.

"Nostalgia" has nothing to do with it. '89 doesn't have a general audience stigma of being "the one that scarred children" like Returns does.

Whether it's accurate or not, whether it's fair or not... such labels generally stay, as the masses rarely revisit an old opinion and see if it still fits.

Frankly (and this isn't an attack on you), I find the modern rash of using "nostalgia" as a strawman argument to deride things to be tiresome. It is pretty consistently used purely to denigrate an opinion or thing that the speaker doesn't personally like, framing the criticism under a mask of pretend "objectivity" so as to still act authoritative. It's been fiercely on the rise on the topic of Keaton's return, and the only people slinging it are the people who hate the idea of his coming back.

The idea that "revisiting something means no artistic merit" is a ludicrous way of thinking, and two-dimensional. Keaton isn't going to be standing around in the background saying "I'm here, remember me??" He's going to be an integral part of the narrative and I'm fed up with fanboys weaponizing shallow criticism to suck the potential joy out of everything.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Woah there, I didn't mean to inspire a rant or upset anyone.

It's just from my perspective, whenever talk of '89 comes up, it's always about how eventful it was. The merchandise, the toys, the newness of it, and the general enormity of the phenomenon. And the Prince soundtrack.

It feels like the film itself and especially the performances are secondary when the film is brought up. Not enough people praise Nicholson.

As someone who loves '89, it's bummed me out that it's like the hype around it doesn't touch on the actual substance of the film.

I'm not using the term nostalgia to denigrate the film. I'm more saying that the nostalgia for the time/event of the film overshadows the actual film, sadly.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I will say it does make me happy because sometimes I get sucked into those 'Let's Watch _____ for the First Time!" channels and when they do '89/Returns back to back, most end up saying Returns is superior.

But again, it bums me out that when '89 comes up, it's all about everything surrounding the film, not like...the amazing scenes, Keaton, Nicholson, things it added to the lore.

Even to the point that when I revisited '89 recently, I'd realized how damn good it actually IS because nobody ever talks about that aspect of it.

Whereas with Returns, people talk about the aesthetics, the style, the performances, Keaton, the story, etc. Yes, they talk about its controversy, too. But I hear more specifics about the actual film in talks than I do with its predecessor.

I guess I wish '89 also got those talks, too.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Woah there, I didn't mean to inspire a rant or upset anyone.

Oh, it's not you. Your post only tangentially reminded me of how irritating discourse with others has been related to Keaton's return.

Hey, even though '89 is my favorite film of all time (and probably always will be), I have come to accept that appreciation of it is limited. I don't think it has aged particularly well in the sense that outside of what's unavoidable (special effects, etc), it's sense of storytelling is entirely too vague to capture the hearts and attention of many. Burton made a film that carried a lot of subtext and relatively little exposition. Unless someone is the type to go in looking for a work of art to be swept up in, B89 is all too easy to gloss over as stylish and empty.

It is only when a viewer is really enraptured by the film that they start to think about where it's nuance lies, and for most people who are raised on a steady diet of modern superhero flicks, it's too subtle and too slow. I certainly don't mean it as a criticism of modern moviegoers--but BATMAN has a lot of competition anymore, and new people generally just get handed the Nolan trilogy, or just start with Pattinson's version. In the world of adaptation, the latest one will always get the most focus. There's been no incentive to revisit an older adaptation, until The Flash.

Still, people today aren't expecting to go into a superhero movie having to find the meaning on their own, as it's a relatively non-standard thing in the genre. It's like any painting--the artist doesn't include a note telling you what to look for. You must interpret it on your own, and many come away from B89 viewing it as a shapeless product of marketing with no real overarching story or character. While I think this approach made it enticing and mysterious upon release, it certainly didn't future proof the movie.

I think Returns is more overtly focused in it's storytelling and it's characterization. It still keeps a lot of things open-ended, but I think the intentions come across a lot more clearly to even the most casual viewer, and I think this has helped it's retroactive appreciation immensely.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Oh, it's not you. Your post only tangentially reminded me of how irritating discourse with others has been related to Keaton's return.

I understand. I see you're an Indy fan - of which, I'm sitting 10 feet from a hallway shelf of mine that has two replicas per Indy film on it.

So I'm a big fan of Indy. And I've seen a lot of irritating discourse surrounding that film and Ford's return using 'nostalgia' as a takedown or diminishing.

And I've very much experienced that type of dismissal when I want to say I love any Indy film that the person I'm talking to has deemed bad enough that I'm 'blinded' by nostalgia.

So I get where you're coming from.

 

[Matt.S99]

I’m not sure if I’ve ever posted these here.
A friend of mine made me these awesome Batman and Catwoman dolls awhile back. Gotta get a Nicholson Joker next.