Gotham The Official Gotham News and discussion thread - Part 1

[Orb]

I just find it interesting that they chose the time frame that they chose. Im definitely getting a post 1999 feel. Either that or they goofed with penguins phone, and truck, and barbs cordless phone.

There is no set date for the show. It supposed to be timeless. They purposefully mix and matched different tech like 60s cars with cell phones so you dont know when its suppose to take place.

 

[Lilbaz]

So Montoya was undercover working a case when she met Barbara? Guessing Barbara was Falcone's (or someone similar) squeeze or something.

Best episode so far. Quite funny aswell.

 

[Paradox1]

I liked the Bullock and Gordon partnership best this episode. You can see the wheels turning in little Bruce's head of the man he will be.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Damn this show kicks ass. Favorite aspects of this episode were the Bruce/Alfred scenes, the Penguin scenes, and especially the Maroni/Penguin scene. Awesome episode, awesome series. I hope this show remains a success

 

[Michael Frost]

You can see the wheels turning in little Bruce's head of the man he will be.

Could you? I'm surprised. It's not like they're hitting our heads with a shovel to try and hammer that home or anything...

This show has some good parts and falls really short on the other. It's cartoonish and caricaturish...

 

[Lilbaz]

Could you? I'm surprised. It's not like they're hitting our heads with a shovel to try and hammer that home or anything...

This show has some good parts and falls really short on the other. It's cartoonish and caricaturish...

It's based on a comicbook world and comic book characters.

 

[antsman41]

The line about, a guy who killed no matter for good/bad was now a criminal. The most (only) subtle thing they've done with Bruce, concerning his future code of ethics.

Gordon & Barbara/Bullock scenes made the episode.

BTW, does Babs work or does she only just hang out all day half-naked in her apartment?

 

[StarLord]

What's Barbara's job?!

That's one sweet apartment they've got on Jim's GCPD wages.

 

[Sawyer]

What's Barbara's job?!

That's one sweet apartment they've got on Jim's GCPD wages.

She owns and art gallery, but I think the actors said before the show started that she comes from a wealthy family. I imagine that might come into play later on.

 

[Michael Frost]

It's based on a comicbook world and comic book characters.

When the Animated Series has more believable characterization and acting than your live action show, you're in big trouble...

Being based on a comic book doesn't excuse it for being campy. It should be good in this medium otherwise what was the point in adapting it?

Not to mention the obvious fallacy that seems to think comic books are all cartoony and campy by your standards...

 

[Kane52630]

And what's wrong with camp? There's also a fallacy where fans think of Batman as ONLY serious and dark and nothing else. Batman has a history of campiness and I don't know why some fans want to reject that constantly.

 

[antsman41]

This show doesn't know how to balance the camp and the grit.

Look at how Bordwalk Empire goes from a shootout to a one-liner by Michael Shannon...

Gotham tries and fails to pull that off because its weak at writing and editing.

One second you have Mooney going full '66 but then the next scene is someone slicing a guys ACL like it is a Saw movie. That doesn't full or mix well, unless done perfectly right along the lines of Boardwalk, Breaking Bad, Utopia (UK), etc.

 

[Frodo]

Well they want the grounded gritty cop drama of Nolan while still keeping quirky and off beat style of Burton, and having the over the top characterization of the Schumacer films. In the midst of that, they want the Law and Order type of procedural and city politics while trying to please comic and mainstream audiences. I think they've found the best balance of everything in the pilot and the latest episode.

Camp though imo, really doesn't work unless you go all the way with it. Having on foot in the camp world and the other in the gritty/dark world gives you a disjointed product which usually doesn't turn out well ala ASM 2. That said, I don't think the show has been campy ,so much as its been melodramatic such as the Barbara/Montoya scenes and Fish's dialog in the second episode.

 

[Michael Frost]

And what's wrong with camp? There's also a fallacy where fans think of Batman as ONLY serious and dark and nothing else. Batman has a history of campiness and I don't know why some fans want to reject that constantly.

There's nothing wrong with camp. Except this show doesn't seem to decide what it wants to be. It's threading on a very thin line between gritty enhanced reality and campy cartoon world and the result is just off putting to say the least.

I don't mind campy schlock when it's done right and well written. Joss Whedon is the king of that and I enjoyed his TV shows to a T.

 

[Human Torch]

The line about, a guy who killed no matter for good/bad was now a criminal. The most (only) subtle thing they've done with Bruce, concerning his future code of ethics.

Yeah,loved that.They've yet to go wrong with Bruce's scenes,I dare say.

BTW, does Babs work or does she only just hang out all day half-naked in her apartment?

It just seems odd.I mean she's easy on the eyes and all,but it just doesn't seem Gordon's character to be dating this bombshell.I expect his wife with a ponytail feeding the kids and nagging him to take out the trash.I can't see this Barbara ever becoming that.

 

[Lilbaz]

When the Animated Series has more believable characterization and acting than your live action show, you're in big trouble...

Being based on a comic book doesn't excuse it for being campy. It should be good in this medium otherwise what was the point in adapting it?

Not to mention the obvious fallacy that seems to think comic books are all cartoony and campy by your standards...

What I'm saying is that it has to be a bit ott. Due to what it is.

I'm enjoying it so far. It will get even better once the writers/actors/directors get used to the stories and characters.

 

[chamber-music]

The camp and offbeat stuff can work along side the gritty violent crime noir stuff.

antsman41 mentioned shows like Boardwalk, Breaking Bad, Utopia (UK) that all manage to pull it off.

This show just needs to find a find a more even tone to balance out the quirky with the more down to earth stuff.

It is early days and some shows need a while to hit their stride.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I like the potential this show has but writing needs to improve a lot.

 

[kguillou]

Same here. I'm very much enjoying the show but I cannot figure out why the writers are so bent on hitting us over the head with everything and everything is so overdramatized. Theres barely any subtlety at all and some of the characters' dialogue is just plain cartoonish. It feels almost as if the writers were forced to write this show that way because it doesnt feel organic with the atmosphere theyre building here. I think this would be so so much better as a serious, gritty police drama and they would just fully embrace that.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

They really need to lay off the Batman angle.

I loved the Harvey and Gordon chasing clues part, and appreciated Balloonman was set-off by the incompetence in the child abductions.

I think they would be best served by making this just a fantasy procedural.

Get rid of Barbara. No one cares about her druggy lesbianism.

I'd rather Gordon meet someone passionate about justice and seeing the city slowly drain the hope out of them.

 

[JJmelo]

They really need to lay off the Batman angle.

I loved the Harvey and Gordon chasing clues part, and appreciated Balloonman was set-off by the incompetence in the child abductions.

I think they would be best served by making this just a fantasy procedural.

Get rid of Barbara. No one cares about her druggy lesbianism.

I'd rather Gordon meet someone passionate about justice and seeing the city slowly drain the hope out of them.

BOLD: I do :P lol jokes aside, she is a pretty useless character at this point. She doesn't even stir up the pot with the misinformation being given to her by Montoya.

I like the idea of ur last point but the city is already gone to poop. Had there been at least a shred of hope left in the city I would agree but the GCPD dont give a damn. they beat kids and refuse to do their jobs, the politicians and just about every other person in power is corrpt and working for one of the crime familes, and the citizens are willing to back a serial killer. It doesnt look like there is any hope left to lose. The city already needs batman, what are gordon and whoever else shows up gonna do??

In any case, here is my review from last nights episode for those interested in hearing more about the show.

http://otlnews.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/gotham-review-ep-3-the-balloon-man/

 

[The Guard]

Are some things a bit on the nose? Yes, but don't forget, it's the CW, not HBO. I don't get the complaints about unsubtle/extensive references to characters in this show. Just because you noticed it and it wasn't the most subtle thing ever written doesn't mean it's sledgehammer dialogue, either.

Case in point: Selina slinking around, being shown feeding cats, stealing milk, stealing other things, being able to see in the dark, etc...these are not just references to her future as Catwoman.

These are character traits that they are introducing so they can develop the character in a particular direction.

It's like being told a character likes baseball during a sitcom, except that for instance, here, Selina likes stray cats. Which makes sense, both literally and metaphorically. She herself is a bit of a cast-off, a street dweller, and a loner. It works on more levels than "OBVIOUS CATWOMAN REFERENCE!".

I'm also not seeing this "camp" some of you are speaking of.

I suspect that some of you do not know what camp is.

This show is not making fun of itself. Slightly over the top mannerisms and larger than life behavior is not necessarily "camp". Nods and elements of characters being revealed is also not "camp".

Nevermind that loving amounts of camp has long been a staple of the Batman mythology. Even in the more serious comics and movies.

 

[Micromind]

Are some things a bit on the nose? Yes, but don't forget, it's the CW, not HBO. I don't get the complaints about unsubtle/extensive references to characters in this show. Just because you noticed it and it wasn't the most subtle thing ever written doesn't mean it's sledgehammer dialogue, either.

Case in point: Selina slinking around, being shown feeding cats, stealing milk, stealing other things, being able to see in the dark, etc...these are not just references to her future as Catwoman.

These are character traits that they are introducing so they can develop the character in a particular direction.

It's like being told a character likes baseball during a sitcom, except that for instance, here, Selina likes stray cats. Which makes sense, both literally and metaphorically. She herself is a bit of a cast-off, a street dweller, and a loner. It works on more levels than "OBVIOUS CATWOMAN REFERENCE!".

I'm also not seeing this "camp" some of you are speaking of.

I suspect that some of you do not know what camp is.

This show is not making fun of itself. Slightly over the top mannerisms and larger than life behavior is not necessarily "camp". Nods and elements of characters being revealed is also not "camp".

Nevermind that loving amounts of camp has long been a staple of the Batman mythology. Even in the more serious comics and movies.

It's not CW.

There are some over the top performances by villains as they are written / directed that way.

 

[shauner111]

And what's wrong with camp? There's also a fallacy where fans think of Batman as ONLY serious and dark and nothing else. Batman has a history of campiness and I don't know why some fans want to reject that constantly.

It's about taste. I dont like watching cheesy camp in shows and movies (unless it's in a Star Wars or something like that where the world is already sci-fi and outlandish all the way). I especially dont like Batman to be campy. Never liked it.

The main problem though, is how they can't balance the campy moments with the serious stuff. It's all over the place, back and forth. Nothing is consistent. But even if they learned to balance those elements better, i still wouldn't like it because im just not a fan of that style/tone. Unless it's in a cartoon with kids as the main target audience. I dig B:TAS, and that has somewhat of a balance (not the level of maturity some scenes have in Gotham mind you) but i never wanted to see that tone in live-action. The look and characterizations? Sure. But the tone? No thanks. Ill take my dark, serious, mature Batman.

Are some things a bit on the nose? Yes, but don't forget, it's the CW, not HBO.

It's not the CW..

 

[BestGirl]

The only campy element about this show was the method of murder, and I appreciated its relative lightheartedness. All the other actors, especially Jada and Pertwee, felt like they were toning it down a bit, which was a relief. The dialog in this episode was the best so far.