The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 7

[Cain]

I was neutral on Norton. I didn't care if stayed or left. I enjoy TIH on the first viewing but after repeat viewings i was just disappointed in the over all direction Hulk.

Same here. I actually didn't like TIH the first time though. I liked parts of it and certain elements from the comics being brought up but Norton bored me for the most part. He was tolerable but not memorable. Nothing made him anymore intersting as Banner than Bana. They were both actually pretty dull in the role.

Which was the problem I had with both the previous movies. When Hulk came I was impressed by spectacle but really didn't give a damn overall cause I didn't care about Banner. Banner is supposed to charm you and engage you it's what makes his inner conflict so interesting.

You're torn between who you like more in the war between Banner and Hulk cause both characters are likeable. Hulk is so likeable partly because Banner himself is so interesting and Hulk's a physical manifestation of the dark areas of his subconscious.

Hulk stories are as much about Banner as they are about Hulk. I sense more charisma and presence from what little I've seen of Ruffalo as Banner than either of those 2. For that I'm actually thankful. Finally.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yeah I can't really say Norton wowed me in any real way. At least not like the way RDJ or Michael Fassbender did when they were cast in their Marvel roles.

 

[Cain]

I still haven't seen First Class. I just can't get into the X-Men movie continuity at all. I find it so boring, scaled down and uneventful compared to the epic scope of the comics. It's one of those cases where I just stick to the comics and avoid the movies. X-Men is still one of the more disappointing movie going experiences I ever had.

X2 was ok though; I kinda regretted not seeing that one in the cinema after renting it. It was the closest any of those movies got to capturing what made the comics click. Still wasn't really enough though. I haven't seen it since that time.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well in the case of First Class it sort of works that the scale is more down to earth as most of the stuff is based around the Cold War and the aftermath of World War 2 rather than the time travel or intergalactic war aspects seen in the comics.

 

[FrostBite]

That's far from a smart financial risk. hulk may have worked very well in this group movie, but he hasn't proved he can carry a solo movie at all.
And he already had two chances, with no success.

(I'm going to apologize in advance, I write for a living, so without further ado. Time to get verbose!)

Wrong, the first one gained a lot of money, the second made it's money back and while it under-performed still gained $100mil over it's budget. That's not "no success" that's "less success than Iron Man". Add to that it was coming off of the heals of it's atrocious (not to me, to general audiences) predecessor, received no marketing and was placed up against a powerhouse of competitors... it never stood a chance (and yet managed to do well when it should have garnered barely anything). Neither flat-out failed. In fact, Domestic intake for TIH wasn't bad, the foreign market is where it faltered. Either way, this discussion is neither here nor there as trends apply and are indicative of success; I agree with you there. That's not the point I'm arguing. I'm talking about risk and pay off. You need to gamble on the audiences attention while still capitalizing on their new interests. Give them what they want, as well as what they didn't know they wanted.

The problem here is it is a very smart financial risk but Marvel is keen on not taking financial risks, that's a problem. It's led to undercutting actors, firing actors, almost firing actors, replacing directors, and generally over-saturating the mainstream with one formulaic movie after another. Heck, besides plot being a different bag, Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man all start out with the whole "flash forward, flashback until you get to the flash forward" mechanic. (Mind you, they are still some of my favorite movies, but, by and large they follow one gigantic formula after another.)

Marvel is playing it safe and generally trying has a habit, as a new studio, of trying to "over-correct" things. There's a place to play it safe (Captain America 2, Iron Man 3, Thor 2) and a place for risks. Those risks need to be taken in order to branch renew market interest. Using one of your most popular characters again after a new flick launches his recognition back into the hearts of the mainstream is a great risk. One you should act on; not preemptively deny that you would ever capitalize on it (this is all conjecture of course, based on previews. When the actual flick hits theaters no one could care, rendering this discussion useless.)

The Avengers was probably the only thing they've done in the universe of cinema that has broken any boundaries or furthered their profit. Setting up the Avengers ensured that tons of people had to go see the following movies to set up for the grand finale.

The problem is, they are likely going to try and make lightening strike twice in a slew of new origin/solo movies which they have discussed (and, correct me if I am wrong on any of these) Black Widow, Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, and Nick Fury. Difference being, two of those characters will have already been established as bit parts that serve no purpose other than as to give the main draws something to interact with, and others aren't going to interest the mainstream in anyway.

There is of course the issue of Hulk's TV show, which, due to not having the spectacle that people have already formed a synonymous bond with the character from his adventures on the silver screen will more than likely tank in syndication. Heck, I'm a big Hulk fan, and I'm more than likely not going to watch it.

What they are doing here by jumping the gun is acting like, well, a freshman studio who is afraid to invest in risk. Maybe because they are. Maybe because they should be. I'll still stand by the assertion that is far more risky to impulsively cancel out the opportunity than to at least put it on the drawing board.

Then again, it's not a do-or-die situation for the company, of course. But it's a head-scratcher to not capitalize on one of your biggest characters.

And... no, I really think everyone should drop the ensemble being the reason they liked him. Whether that is, or isn't (and it could be) isn't going to doom a solo movie. If anything it'd rake in a butt load of cash initially only to bomb when word of mouth falters; more than likely making it's money but not securing a sequel--that's assuming it's a bad movie even. Current popularity and fresh impression matters more to an average movie goer than say sitting there analyzing the flick asking themselves "Do I enjoy the Hulk for Hulk? Or do I enjoy him because of the dynamics that he presents in contrast to the various personalities of this ultra-team of heroes? No, I think I'd pass on a movie based on him, because without Tony Stark's prodding and antagonism, the Hulk loses any sort of appeal."

Edit: I should add, "Dat Avvy..." It's awesome, man.

 

[Roose Bolton]

^ 100% agree.

 

[terry78]

I think the internet community has kind of been a double edged sword for movies, period. It's cool we get all this info, but we also have shockingly had the power to influence opinions and thoughts on films to boot. And the media picks up on that. Enough geeks online say the last two Hulks weren't that good, it gets out there.

 

[FrostBite]

I think the internet community has kind of been a double edged sword for movies, period. It's cool we get all this info, but we also have shockingly had the power to influence opinions and thoughts on films to boot. And the media picks up on that. Enough geeks online say the last two Hulks weren't that good, it gets out there.

Eh... I kind of agree. But a lot of people went to Hulk 2003, a lot of people did not like Hulk 2003. I never, ever, ever, knew about these boards or online opinion then. By the time TIH came out, everyone I knew (who didn't know about these or other boards, still don't) didn't even stand to give it a chance based on their hatred of the last one.

Example: Ghost Rider.

I think we have a sway, I don't think our sway is that big. If it was the overwhelming hatred of the Raimi Spider-man flicks and Transformers would matter. And yet... it doesn't.

I should know, I come online every once in awhile (specifically when a movie that I am interested in is coming out because I am spoiler addict), but largely, I've disowned comics and am part of the dreaded mainstream who likes Transformers movies.

 

[Vulklin]

I liked Hulk 03 very much, yes it had some flaws but it was still a good film in my opinion

Hulk 08 was awful and one of the worst Marvel films I have seen

This Hulk in the Avengers seems to be perfect, so I am very pleased

I really don't understand how people like Hulk 08? They say it had great action, where exactly?

Why was Hulk ground based and so slow and weak for the entire film? Needing shields to protect himself from bullets? Not healing?

Yes he gives a good roar every now and again, so what? He does nothing to back up. His bark is truly worse than his bite.

What the Hulk 08 reminds me of is a man who is very very angry because he is impotent.

Action in Hulk 03 was better than Hulk 08, he was running and jumping through the desert and taking on planes and tanks, as well as fighting two huge gamma dogs (I try and blank the poodle lol)

Why was Hulk vs Abomination good?

Hulk did not get stronger, he was weaker for the whole duration of the fight

Abomination is stronger at first, as the fight would go on, Hulk would get stronger and eventually the tables would turn dramatically

This did not happen at all, Hulk did not heal, was too weak, did not get stronger. It just was not Hulk

As well as all this I hated Norton and Tyler, should have been nominated as worst pairing at Razzies, Bana and Connelly I liked much more

 

[Marvin]

08 hulk was very much small scale...apparently that was marvels game till now.

3 mile leaping capacity anyone.

 

[Cain]

I liked Connelly more than Tyler but Bana and Norton about the same. As I said before neither of them really captured at all what makes Banner a compelling character.

It was too broody and self absorbed and boring for me to care. Banner is not supposed to be all angsty he's a man with a childlike adoration for science and does quip around too. He is conflicted yes but he's not emo either.

I think the previous movies just didn't understand that at all. They made Bruce Banner a boring character which is a poor reflection when compared to earth 616 Banner. With that said I give the Lee movie the edge over TIH only cause it dealt better with the inner conflict and to me that's the most compelling thing about those stories. Also had the better Thunderbolt Ross and yeah more engaging action and effects.

 

[Hmarrs]

I think the important parts in TIH, were the ones that tied Banner to the Super Soldier program. They went with the Ultimates Hulk origin to an extent, where his transformation was in part triggered by the bastardized version of Erskine's serum he injected, not knowing what it truly was. I still would have rather had the Gamma bomb origin.

And how would one do that you might say simple.
I have a way and you still don't lose both Hulk Films.
It uses the Serum and the nanobot idea but suppliments the nano with the serum.

So Marvel if your listening pick up on this.

The scene begins with Fury giving a quick rundown to his Shield Agents about who each Avenger member is.This way his team can be aware and know what their dealing with.

Fury begins and when he gets to the Hulk(However it must be after Captain America and the Super Soldier explanation) he says:

Gentlemen we now have Dr.Banner a Physistist
(Also please excuse my spelling.) a.k.a the Hulk.

For some time Dr.Banner was working on a proto type of the Super Soldier serum on behalf of Shield under the watchful eye of a General Talbot.(Or the other way around)
After many atempts he came up unsuccessful and so we decided to scrap the project.However what we didn't know was that Banner had been using himself as a Guiene Pig.
What we thought was an unsuccesful attempt was really a sleeping giant.In disguise (Literally).
It wasn't until Dr.Banner had gotten caught in an accidental Gamma explosion(At that point since he will be using slides he shows that famous picture of Banner in the blast.) that we found out the Serum was actually just lying dorment in his Genes and now were activated.The Gamma had activated the serum.
As the Gamma began to break down his cells we found that at the exact same rate the serum was reconstructing his cells each feeding of of each other fusing and feeding one another.(like a bad marriage Some Jackson humor).This state will only to be heightened or magnified by any adreninaline rush Dr.banner may experience Excitement,Fear,most of all Anger.His cells are contantly unstable.However in a calm state he would be and look just like you or me.
However anytime he may find himself in a fight or flight situation it could mean bad news.

One of his Rookies speaks up and asked:exactly what are you saying in lamens terms directer?

Jackson says: Easy don't piss the mother f**ker off!
In his Samuel Jackson personna.

Whatever you do don't make him angry you wouldn't like him when he's angry.

It so simple in the hands of a good writer you could play with this all day.
In this you tie up all 3 Hulks with a new and more accurate origin.
Done.

 

[Gamma Burst]

(I'm going to apologize in advance, I write for a living, so without further ado. Time to get verbose!)

Wrong, the first one gained a lot of money, the second made it's money back and while it under-performed still gained $100mil over it's budget. That's not "no success" that's "less success than Iron Man". Add to that it was coming off of the heals of it's atrocious (not to me, to general audiences) predecessor, received no marketing and was placed up against a powerhouse of competitors... it never stood a chance (and yet managed to do well when it should have garnered barely anything). Neither flat-out failed. In fact, Domestic intake for TIH wasn't bad, the foreign market is where it faltered. Either way, this discussion is neither here nor there as trends apply and are indicative of success; I agree with you there. That's not the point I'm arguing. I'm talking about risk and pay off. You need to gamble on the audiences attention while still capitalizing on their new interests. Give them what they want, as well as what they didn't know they wanted.

The problem here is it is a very smart financial risk but Marvel is keen on not taking financial risks, that's a problem. It's led to undercutting actors, firing actors, almost firing actors, replacing directors, and generally over-saturating the mainstream with one formulaic movie after another. Heck, besides plot being a different bag, Thor, Captain America, and Iron Man all start out with the whole "flash forward, flashback until you get to the flash forward" mechanic. (Mind you, they are still some of my favorite movies, but, by and large they follow one gigantic formula after another.)

Marvel is playing it safe and generally trying has a habit, as a new studio, of trying to "over-correct" things. There's a place to play it safe (Captain America 2, Iron Man 3, Thor 2) and a place for risks. Those risks need to be taken in order to branch renew market interest. Using one of your most popular characters again after a new flick launches his recognition back into the hearts of the mainstream is a great risk. One you should act on; not preemptively deny that you would ever capitalize on it (this is all conjecture of course, based on previews. When the actual flick hits theaters no one could care, rendering this discussion useless.)

The Avengers was probably the only thing they've done in the universe of cinema that has broken any boundaries or furthered their profit. Setting up the Avengers ensured that tons of people had to go see the following movies to set up for the grand finale.

The problem is, they are likely going to try and make lightening strike twice in a slew of new origin/solo movies which they have discussed (and, correct me if I am wrong on any of these) Black Widow, Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, and Nick Fury. Difference being, two of those characters will have already been established as bit parts that serve no purpose other than as to give the main draws something to interact with, and others aren't going to interest the mainstream in anyway.

There is of course the issue of Hulk's TV show, which, due to not having the spectacle that people have already formed a synonymous bond with the character from his adventures on the silver screen will more than likely tank in syndication. Heck, I'm a big Hulk fan, and I'm more than likely not going to watch it.

What they are doing here by jumping the gun is acting like, well, a freshman studio who is afraid to invest in risk. Maybe because they are. Maybe because they should be. I'll still stand by the assertion that is far more risky to impulsively cancel out the opportunity than to at least put it on the drawing board.

Then again, it's not a do-or-die situation for the company, of course. But it's a head-scratcher to not capitalize on one of your biggest characters.

And... no, I really think everyone should drop the ensemble being the reason they liked him. Whether that is, or isn't (and it could be) isn't going to doom a solo movie. If anything it'd rake in a butt load of cash initially only to bomb when word of mouth falters; more than likely making it's money but not securing a sequel--that's assuming it's a bad movie even. Current popularity and fresh impression matters more to an average movie goer than say sitting there analyzing the flick asking themselves "Do I enjoy the Hulk for Hulk? Or do I enjoy him because of the dynamics that he presents in contrast to the various personalities of this ultra-team of heroes? No, I think I'd pass on a movie based on him, because without Tony Stark's prodding and antagonism, the Hulk loses any sort of appeal."

Edit: I should add, "Dat Avvy..." It's awesome, man.

Chill, man! I do agree with most what you've said here. I love the big green guy, and if it depended on me I'd green light another movie without a thought!

 

[FrostBite]

Chill, man! I do agree with most what you've said here. I love the big green guy, and if it depended on me I'd green light another movie without a thought!

Hahahaha I'm totally chill. t: As I said in the disclaimer, I write for a living, an explosion of text is inevitable. I just feel the need to address every point of the argument. XD Sorry, I know seeing a big wall of text is always intimidating in that it seems like someone having a conniption.

 

[TX85]

I liked Hulk 03 very much, yes it had some flaws but it was still a good film in my opinion

Hulk 08 was awful and one of the worst Marvel films I have seen

This Hulk in the Avengers seems to be perfect, so I am very pleased

I really don't understand how people like Hulk 08? They say it had great action, where exactly?

Why was Hulk ground based and so slow and weak for the entire film? Needing shields to protect himself from bullets? Not healing?

Yes he gives a good roar every now and again, so what? He does nothing to back up. His bark is truly worse than his bite.

What the Hulk 08 reminds me of is a man who is very very angry because he is impotent.

Action in Hulk 03 was better than Hulk 08, he was running and jumping through the desert and taking on planes and tanks, as well as fighting two huge gamma dogs (I try and blank the poodle lol)

Why was Hulk vs Abomination good?

Hulk did not get stronger, he was weaker for the whole duration of the fight

Abomination is stronger at first, as the fight would go on, Hulk would get stronger and eventually the tables would turn dramatically

This did not happen at all, Hulk did not heal, was too weak, did not get stronger. It just was not Hulk

As well as all this I hated Norton and Tyler, should have been nominated as worst pairing at Razzies, Bana and Connelly I liked much more

I liked TIH a lot But in my ranking in the MCU it's the worst besides IM2(Which I also liked But it ain't good as the rest),As Hulk movies go I feel Hulk'03 is overall better and underrated and Hulk himself is much better/stronger/tougher&way more savage than TIH's!!

 

[Gamma Burst]

Hahahaha I'm totally chill. t: As I said in the disclaimer, I write for a living, an explosion of text is inevitable. I just feel the need to address every point of the argument. XD Sorry, I know seeing a big wall of text is always intimidating in that it seems like someone having a conniption.

It's all good, man. Anyway, I'm sure the Marvel guys love the character and they know his immense potential; he's a pop culture icon after all. They just need the time to come with a great angle to portray him on the big screen with justice. The Avengers was the first (huge,it seems) step in the right direction.

 

[FrostBite]

It's all good, man. Anyway, I'm sure the Marvel guys love the character and they know his immense potential; he's a pop culture icon after all. They just need the time to come with a great angle to portray him on the big screen with justice. The Avengers was the first (huge,it seems) step in the right direction.

Yeah, you're probably right. Kevin's remarks don't seem to really line up with everything Mark has hinted at/pressed for. I think he knows something we don't (possibly that they are batting around ideas, but don't have a concrete plan for Jade Jaws, so they don't want to commit.)

Especially with that little leak about their super-secret scene: "We're shooting a scene tonight. I'm not sure exactly where it's gonna go. All I know is that someone came in with the costume and said, 'Here's some wardrobe. We don't know where you're going to be or what you're doing.'"

Screams "Banner's-not-done-yet" to me.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Yeah, you're probably right. Kevin's remarks don't seem to really line up with everything Mark has hinted at/pressed for. I think he knows something we don't (possibly that they are batting around ideas, but don't have a concrete plan for Jade Jaws, so they don't want to commit.)

Especially with that little leak about their super-secret scene: "We're shooting a scene tonight. I'm not sure exactly where it's gonna go. All I know is that someone came in with the costume and said, 'Here's some wardrobe. We don't know where you're going to be or what you're doing.'"

Screams "Banner's-not-done-yet" to me.

Yeah I share the same feelings about. Maybe they already set up Banner for a possible Avenngers sequel. Who knows... as long as we see him kicking ass again in a movie, I am happy.

 

[musterd]

Is the Iron Man 3 script finalised? I know they shoot in 5 weeks but maybe Banner has a role in it?

Also those quotes from Mark about how he would love to do a solo Hulk movie seem to come from his onset interview with the press a year ago..not sure if they reflect recent plans.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Is the Iron Man 3 script finalised? I know they shoot in 5 weeks but maybe Banner has a role in it?

Also those quotes from Mark about how he would love to do a solo Hulk movie seem to come from his onset interview with the press a year ago..not sure if they reflect recent plans.

No. They come from recent intereviews. He even suggested a petition for a new Hulk movie.

 

[Marvel Spider]

Ruffalo was an awesome Banner. Give him his own movie, Marvel. You're making a huge mistake if you just settle with a cheap TV show.

Spoiler

By the way, I loved how they talked about Banner trying to kill himself. It made for a really tense moment.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Ruffalo was an awesome Banner. Give him his own movie, Marvel. You're making a huge mistake if you just settle with a cheap TV show.

Spoiler

By the way, I loved how they talked about Banner trying to kill himself. It made for a really tense moment.

Great. It seems they really nailed everything about the character this time.

 

[nightwing06]

Ruffalo was an awesome Banner. Give him his own movie, Marvel. You're making a huge mistake if you just settle with a cheap TV show.

Spoiler

By the way, I loved how they talked about Banner trying to kill himself. It made for a really tense moment.

He was terrific and...

Spoiler

a lot of people were talking about that revelation about himself after the screening Its the nice touches like that which makes the film great.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yeah I can't really say Norton wowed me in any real way. At least not like the way RDJ or Michael Fassbender did when they were cast in their Marvel roles.

He didn't stand out in the same way, but to be fair I think RDJ's and Fassbender's roles were a bit more interesting to play with as well.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Not really. Bruce Banner/IH is as interesting as a character can get, imo. Norton's performance was simply uninspired.