The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 9

[Obi-Ron]

It was pretty good for a forced tie-in story

 

[metaphysician]

I seriously doubt Banner/the Hulk is truly unkillable. You just can't rely on simply shooting him as Banner to do the job. My guess is, if you want to kill him:

1. Kill him as the Hulk ( easier said than done, yes, but not impossible, and if you can do this, it obviously makes the "turn into Hulk" defense moot )

2. Kill Banner extremely thoroughly and quickly. If you shoot Banner, he'll change, heal it, and rampage. . . but if you exploded him into a fine red mist ( say, with a 2000 lb bomb ) before he changed, I imagine there wouldn't be enough to transform

3. Prevent him from transforming. If you can suppress his ability to transform ( via drugs, telepathy, gamma energy draining, magic, whatever ), then you can probably kill him dead as easily as any human.

 

[terry78]

1. It's already been impossible to do this even for supernatural beings.
2. The reaction is almost instantaneous. You attempt to blow him up, the Hulk personas have almost a spider-sense reaction time to danger.
3. People have tried, but something has always gone wrong.

 

[Bren]

I would absolutely hate it if the Hulk was properly unkillable (outside of normal comicbook resurrections ) ...
Didn't Odin lay some decent smackdown on him and give him some internal injuries? If so, surely being damaged by internal injuries means if Odin hadn't stopped, he could kill him then?

 

[Roose Bolton]

I would absolutely hate it if the Hulk was properly unkillable (outside of normal comicbook resurrections ) ...
Didn't Odin lay some decent smackdown on him and give him some internal injuries? If so, surely being damaged by internal injuries means if Odin hadn't stopped, he could kill him then?

It was Zeus and Hulk thought that he would earn the olympians respect by putting up with the Prometheus Treatment to save his wife and friends from the sort of suffering he deals with everyday.
Hercules helped him out and saved him.

 

[Golgo-13]

I think if you dropped an unconscious Banner in a volcano, he'd die, just like Wolverine.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I loved that story!

It was brilliant how they showed that Hulk's love for Jarella was stronger than his anger and hatred towards his father. That was Pak's best non Planet Hulk/WWH story in my opinion, it was great seeing Blonsky back too.

I agree along with issue #611 Hulk fight with his son Skaar.

I seriously doubt Banner/the Hulk is truly unkillable. You just can't rely on simply shooting him as Banner to do the job. My guess is, if you want to kill him:

1. Kill him as the Hulk ( easier said than done, yes, but not impossible, and if you can do this, it obviously makes the "turn into Hulk" defense moot )

He can be killed, but like his future self Maestro stated....It won't last, they always beat the odds and come back.

Hulk is a monster on so may levels.

Even in the television movie Death of the Incredible Hulk, they were planning to do Return of the Incredible Hulk, according to Lou Ferrigno, before Bill Bixby died.

2. Kill Banner extremely thoroughly and quickly. If you shoot Banner, he'll change, heal it, and rampage. . . but if you exploded him into a fine red mist ( say, with a 2000 lb bomb ) before he changed, I imagine there wouldn't be enough to transform

Banner has died in comics and been revived.

In the most recent issue of Red Hulk's book, Doc Samson was reforming himself from a dead state by latching first on to the pstchic plane after his body died, then lathing on to a gamma/cosmic source Red Hulk. This is what Maestro did to reanimate his dead self when Hulk and Banner were reunited after the Heroes reborn trash.

Keep in mind Hulk and gamma beings are monsters on so many levels.

3. Prevent him from transforming. If you can suppress his ability to transform ( via drugs, telepathy, gamma energy draining, magic, whatever ), then you can probably kill him dead as easily as any human.

Hulk on some levels has been described as Banner's Survival Instinct and as his future self Maestro stated...will not stay dead...right before he regenerated from years of being dead.

1. It's already been impossible to do this even for supernatural beings.
2. The reaction is almost instantaneous. You attempt to blow him up, the Hulk personas have almost a spider-sense reaction time to danger.
3. People have tried, but something has always gone wrong.

This is true...but killing him for a time...not totally impossible.

I would absolutely hate it if the Hulk was properly unkillable (outside of normal comicbook resurrections ) ...
Didn't Odin lay some decent smackdown on him and give him some internal injuries? If so, surely being damaged by internal injuries means if Odin hadn't stopped, he could kill him then?

No it was Zeus that layeth the smacketh down on the pagan Hulk...LOL!!! Who if you read the story would know that Hulk did it as a sacrifice to help his family and friends.

Again he's unkillable at least in the comic books and the once future television movie "Return of the Incredible Hulk" (google Lou Ferrigno "Return of the Incredible Hulk")

Hulk is not like...YOUR...favorite hero...he doesn't operate or function like any normal super hero....Thus the question posed on the cover of issue #1

 

[Dark Raven]

That's still one of the best Hulk covers, and I wish they would do a movie poster like that. None of the Hulk movie posters have been anywhere as striking or iconic as that image.

 

[metaphysician]

I'm speaking of the movie version specifically, wherein we don't have to take into account quite so many "quick, lets throw in whatever bad writing it takes to keep Hulk from losing" incidents. Also, as far as I'm concerned, "dead until some future individuals takes some specific action to revive you" is still dead, and "dead until some indefinite date quite far in the future" is pretty near to it.

Not that its *all* bad writing, but when the writer starts babbling about Zeus being unable to kill the Hulk, he loses all credibility.

 

[Gamma Ra]

That's still one of the best Hulk covers, and I wish they would do a movie poster like that. None of the Hulk movie posters have been anywhere as striking or iconic as that image.

That would be a cool movie poster. I think comic book movies have so much to pull from story-wise as well as concept wise.

I'm speaking of the movie version specifically, wherein we don't have to take into account quite so many "quick, lets throw in whatever bad writing it takes to keep Hulk from losing" incidents. Also, as far as I'm concerned, "dead until some future individuals takes some specific action to revive you" is still dead, and "dead until some indefinite date quite far in the future" is pretty near to it.

Not one writer I know had Hulk totally unbeatable. It was Stan Lee that first had Banner reanimate from a dead state by using gamma radiation and Peter David that futher built on it, so what "quick" bad writing are you referring too?

Not that its *all* bad writing, but when the writer starts babbling about Zeus being unable to kill the Hulk, he loses all credibility.

Hulk can be incapacitated and defeated he's just as immortal as most of the gods and monsters like vampires in comics.

 

[Obi-Ron]

Hulk is not YOUR hero...he doesn't operate or function like any normal super hero....Thus the question posed on the cover of issue #1

I love how it always seems to come back to this question. t:

It's also kind of interesting that, one way or another, all 4 live action Hulks have ended up being dropped from an aircraft.

 

[Agent 194]

It was fun to see Hulk done better, in my opinion, than the first two movies. Although, I did like a lot of Norton's touches to the second movie. Including (albeit, only four measures),...but still, a few bars of The Incredible Hulk theme from the TV show.

 

[Gamma Ra]

I love how it always seems to come back to this question. t:

As well as it should, it needs to stay ambiguous to what degrees both Banner and Hulk are men and/or monsters.

It's also kind of interesting that, one way or another, all 4 live action Hulks have ended up being dropped from an aircraft.

That is interesting.

It was fun to see Hulk done better, in my opinion, than the first two movies. Although, I did like a lot of Norton's touches to the second movie. Including (albeit, only four measures),...but still, a few bars of The Incredible Hulk theme from the TV show.

Better, but nowhere near the level he should be...WHY DIDN'T THE HULK MOVIE FRANCHISE START WITH A LIKENESS OF IT'S FIRST COMIC BOOK ISSUE LIKE ALL THE OTHER MARVEL STUDIO MOVIES...This is why I want Del Toro's and Eick's Television show. Del Toro is reading and studying most of the right source materials.

 

[Agent 194]

Better, but nowhere near the level he should be...WHY DIDN'T THE HULK MOVIE FRANCHISE START WITH A LIKENESS OF IT'S FIRST COMIC BOOK ISSUE LIKE ALL THE OTHER MARVEL STUDIO MOVIES...This is why I want Del Toro's and Eick's Television show. Del Toro is reading and studying most of the right source materials.

Well, when you put it that way I support that argument. And I like Del Toro, I just think his sensibilities go a little too weird and dark even for me. I just hope it's good.

 

[Golgo-13]

Just got back from seeing it a 4th time. It's amazing that Hulk is on screen maybe for a total of about 3 minutes, but steals the show!

 

[samsnee]

You know what would have been a great line to add to clear up the whole "Why did Hulk attack BW but then work with the team at the end?"

When Banner shows up at the end, Cap should have said:

CA: Dr Banner do you think you can control the other guy long enough to help us out?

BB: Witjout Loki screwing with our minds, it should be a lot easier.

CA: Then I think it's time to get angry.

 

[Doctor Jones]

That's something I'd like to call spoonfeeding.

 

[terry78]

I think Banner's "sorry" was enough to showcase that he realized that it wasn't totally under his control when he attacked Widow, but now he's assuring her that Hulk will be on their side.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yup. One word. That's all you need. It says much more than lines that just waste space. Leave it to people who know how to write for movies.

 

[samsnee]

That's something I'd like to call spoonfeeding.

Apparently people need spoon feeding as I've seen it asked so many times.

 

[Gamma Ra]

What truly happened during the first Hulk-out in the Avengers has been a topic of discussion on more than this board too.

 

[Golgo-13]

^. True. But i think Thor's line " We're not your enemy Banner. Try to think". Clearly showed Hulk was confused.

Still don't like the fact that Banner changed at will during the second transformation. It turns Hulk into another run of the mill hero, who when danger is near, he can run into a phone booth, 'suit up', and save the day. :

 

[metaphysician]

Apparently people need spoon feeding as I've seen it asked so many times.

Usually by people condemning Avengers for "lacking substance."

 

[Gamma Ra]

^. True. But i think Thor's line " We're not your enemy Banner. Try to think". Clearly showed Hulk was confused.

Well any long term Hulk fan will tell you that this was said to Savage Hulk in every other story...LOL...but as far as the movie, I guess you're right.

Still don't like the fact that Banner changed at will during the second transformation. It turns Hulk into another run of the mill hero, who when danger is near, he can run into a phone booth, 'suit up', and save the day. :

This was one of the complaints I heard from one of my friends, who's not a comic book fan. I explained to him that even in the most recent Greg Pak comic book tales, Banner and Hulk have been able to change at will, something PAD started. Mantlo did it too, but that was when Bruce had complete control of Hulk.

I wrote this on another board and will post it here -

What the movie touched on is not so far-reaching from anything we have seen in the long history of the comic book. Bruce Banner used to use a gamma-ray machine to force his change into the Hulk in the earliest stories; this Hulk had a different mind than Banner's. During Bill Mantlo's run Banner was able to transform into the Hulk without loosing any of his personality or gaining Hulk's. Peter David's Merged Hulk (Gray Hulk + Savage Hulk + Bruce Banner's minds combined) made a mixture of what was once said to be the "real" Bruce Banner, not the fractured psyche of split personalities; they did not transform. More Recently Greg Pak showed us what happens when Hulk and Banner are in agreement. Banner was able to transform to Hulk at will and Hulk regress to Banner at will. This story culminated to the revelation that Hulk is Banner and Banner is Hulk and there is no difference between the two.

I think if they play off of the Jekyll and Hyde factor, in that Hulk is Banner pumped up on the Promethean stolen god-like power, causing him to unleash, uninhibited, his inner strength, power and desires, to the degree that it loosely resembles the intellectually "normal" Bruce Banner. Hulk, being a creature of innate intuitive instinct, should be the reason the two may not always see eye to eye. When Banner is "normal he should be reserved and thinking, when he's Hulk, he's aggressive and compulsive. They should have traits in common; but differ much as well.

 

[JAK®]

Still don't like the fact that Banner changed at will during the second transformation. It turns Hulk into another run of the mill hero, who when danger is near, he can run into a phone booth, 'suit up', and save the day. :

I think he had some help from the giant metal monster zooming towards him. It wasn't exactly a stress-free situation.