The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 8

[TX85]

There's no question that Ruffalo did a great job, but I think that his portrayal owes as much to Whedon's input as to his actual acting. Whedon has crafted a Banner here who is quite different to the previous films. Bana's version was overly serious, grim almost at times, whilst Norton's was closer to the Bixby version but very introverted and pessimistic.

Whedon's Banner is much more upbeat than the previous ones, and also has a sense of humour. Which means we automatically warm to him more as a character than we did previously. The problem with the character in previous films was that we were meant to root for him simply because he was Banner, the protagonist - but the character himself was never really much fun to be around until he changed into the big green guy. He was portrayed very sympathetically of course, but I never felt like I (as a viewer) could get fully invested in him - it was just a waiting game until he got angry and the fireworks kicked off again. Whereas in the Avengers, I actually quite enjoyed watching Banner on screen too.

I don't think Ruffalo did anything particularly amazing or out of the box - he pretty much looked and sounded like he always does - .......... but he is quite a suitable actor for the role in terms of his mild-mannered personality and appearance. He's not a very tall guy, so this further enhances the huge differences between Banner and Hulk. He also acts with his eyes quite well, and sometimes you get a sense of what's going on in his head just from the way he casts a look. It was perfect casting.

Of course, we can't forget that Ruffalo also plays the Hulk and did all the movement and pre-CGi work for that character also. It can't be an easy thing suddenly adapting your movements to play a much larger and more lumbering character, but he pulls it off perfectly.

So all in all, we finally got a great Banner/Hulk, but I would say 50% of the credit for that should go to Whedon for his reimagining of Banner's character.

Yeah true true!

 

[Gamma Burst]

Gotta agree Whedon must receive a lot of praise for the Hulk too.

 

[Spider-X]

So what is the popular explanation for why Hulk went after everyone in the helicarrier, yet he was (mostly) in Banners control during the final battle?

My reasoning:

In the helicarrier, Banner was genuinely rattled and had, basically, a panic attack causing him to lose complete control, which triggered the transformation.

In the city, Banner was in complete control of the transformation, leading to his control as the Hulk.

So if Banner is in control of the transformation, he gets control of Hulk. If not, Hulk controls him.

 

[Gamma Burst]

So what is the popular explanation for why Hulk went after everyone in the helicarrier, yet he was (mostly) in Banners control during the final battle?

My reasoning:

In the helicarrier, Banner was genuinely rattled and had, basically, a panic attack causing him to lose complete control, which triggered the transformation.

In the city, Banner was in complete control of the transformation, leading to his control as the Hulk.

So if Banner is in control of the transformation, he gets control of Hulk. If not, Hulk controls him.

Yeah, also Loki was messing with his mind since he was brought to the helicarrier, imo.

 

[El Payaso]

So what is the popular explanation for why Hulk went after everyone in the helicarrier, yet he was (mostly) in Banners control during the final battle?

My reasoning:

In the helicarrier, Banner was genuinely rattled and had, basically, a panic attack causing him to lose complete control, which triggered the transformation.

In the city, Banner was in complete control of the transformation, leading to his control as the Hulk.

So if Banner is in control of the transformation, he gets control of Hulk. If not, Hulk controls him.

I've heard here he was under Loki's mind control. But I don't remember any of that.

 

[Spider-X]

Yeah, I don't get the Loki having him under control thing. How would Loki have accomplished that? By looking at him while walking by or by him just touching the staff? Doesn't make enough sense to me...

Banner was getting pissed during the discussion before the blast on the helicarrier, then to be completely thrown off and scarred by the blast leading to him having an out of control transformation makes more sense to me.

 

[DyeLorean]

I also think this time Banner/Hulk worked a lot better than in the previous films simply because of the context of where the character was.
This time he could talk freely about his condition, his "other guy", in ways he couldn't in the previous film/s. Not having a love interest was a nice change, for example. Every character worked a lot better when put together with another, in my opinion.

 

[BigThor]

I also think this time Banner/Hulk worked a lot better than in the previous films simply because of the context of where the character was.
This time he could talk freely about his condition, his "other guy", in ways he couldn't in the previous film/s. Not having a love interest was a nice change, for example. Every character worked a lot better when put together with another, in my opinion.

Yes most definately

There are alot of factors as to why Banner worked better than this film rather than just "Rufallo is teh best, Norton sucks".

 

[elgaz]

I got the impression Loki's staff was emitting some kind of signal, or affecting people subconsciously somehow. When they were all standing in the control room and arguing with each other, the camera lingered on the staff for a while (upside down shot, iirc) and that suggested to me that Loki was somehow exerting a small influence on them, causing hostility and mistrust between them. It would be a very typical thing of him to do. That, combined with Banner's stress/anger escalating in an uncontrolled way in a confined space, led to a crazy Hulk who wanted to punch everything.

By contrast, the later scene had the team ready to work together with no hostility or mistrust. And this time, Banner's transformation was controlled and focused. It was enough for him to be able to point the Hulk in the right direction this time.

 

[El Payaso]

I also think this time Banner/Hulk worked a lot better than in the previous films simply because of the context of where the character was.
This time he could talk freely about his condition, his "other guy", in ways he couldn't in the previous film/s. Not having a love interest was a nice change, for example. Every character worked a lot better when put together with another, in my opinion.

Never thought of that until now, but THAT was better for everybody!!!

 

[BigThor]

I was also satisfied with the Hulk vs Thor fight, I don't see what people were saying with the whole "Hulk had the upperhand" thing.

Yeah he slammed Thor and threw him a few feet before the jet interrupted them, but did that really hurt a guy who survived a 5 mile drop? Nahhhh

 

[Spider-X]

I got the impression Loki's staff was emitting some kind of signal, or affecting people subconsciously somehow. When they were all standing in the control room and arguing with each other, the camera lingered on the staff for a while (upside down shot, iirc) and that suggested to me that Loki was somehow exerting a small influence on them, causing hostility and mistrust between them. It would be a very typical thing of him to do. That, combined with Banner's stress/anger escalating in an uncontrolled way in a confined space, led to a crazy Hulk who wanted to punch everything.

By contrast, the later scene had the team ready to work together with no hostility or mistrust. And this time, Banner's transformation was controlled and focused. It was enough for him to be able to point the Hulk in the right direction this time.

That's true...so the staff probably did add to it, but I don't believe Hulk was straight up under Loki's control.

 

[Karelia]

Gotta say, pleasantly surprised with Hulk in The Avengers. I figured I was going to dislike Mark Ruffalo quite a bit, but he did a pretty good job as Bruce. Props to him.

Hulk had some of the best lines/fights... All the fights were brilliant really... The whole movie was!

 

[wobbly]

Right after the Widow manipulates Loki's intent on using the Hulk out of him and just before they all started arguing with each other they made a point of focusing right in on Loki's staff. A full camera shot of the thing no less.

Basically, everyone in the same room as the staff was getting increasingly aggressive: Cap telling Stark to suit up and go a few rounds, Stark's "everything good about you comes out of a bottle" line, the deliberately stilted angle for Thor's "You people are so Petty...and so Tiny...." line (like he was feeling a little confused about what was going on). They were all being affected to a degree with Cap and Tony showing signs of acting aggressively out of character.
But it was Banner getting the worst of it as he was Loki's 'play' and was right next to the Staff.

They did everything but put up a sub-title saying "Loki's Staff is getting them all riled up folks, especially poor old Banner who we just told you is Loki's target!!"

So when he changed it wasn't that he was under Loki's control, but that the change had been forced upon him by a forced rage that Banner could not control.

When he changed for the finale, that was the anger he does control.

 

[Spider-X]

Right after the Widow manipulates Loki's intent on using the Hulk out of him and just before they all started arguing with each other they made a point of focusing right in on Loki's staff. A full camera shot of the thing no less.

Basically, everyone in the same room as the staff was getting increasingly aggressive: Cap telling Stark to suit up and go a few rounds, Stark's "everything good about you comes out of a bottle" line, the deliberately stilted angle for Thor's "You people are so Petty...and so Tiny...." line (like he was feeling a little confused about what was going on). They were all being affected to a degree with Cap and Tony showing signs of acting aggressively out of character.
But it was Banner getting the worst of it as he was Loki's 'play' and was right next to the Staff.

They did everything but put up a sub-title saying "Loki's Staff is getting them all riled up folks, especially poor old Banner who we just told you is Loki's target!!"

So when he changed it wasn't that he was under Loki's control, but that the change had been forced upon him by a forced rage that Banner could not control.

When he changed for the finale, that was the anger he does control.

Agreed!

 

[Mjölnir]

Right after the Widow manipulates Loki's intent on using the Hulk out of him and just before they all started arguing with each other they made a point of focusing right in on Loki's staff. A full camera shot of the thing no less.

Basically, everyone in the same room as the staff was getting increasingly aggressive: Cap telling Stark to suit up and go a few rounds, Stark's "everything good about you comes out of a bottle" line, the deliberately stilted angle for Thor's "You people are so Petty...and so Tiny...." line (like he was feeling a little confused about what was going on). They were all being affected to a degree with Cap and Tony showing signs of acting aggressively out of character.
But it was Banner getting the worst of it as he was Loki's 'play' and was right next to the Staff.

They did everything but put up a sub-title saying "Loki's Staff is getting them all riled up folks, especially poor old Banner who we just told you is Loki's target!!"

So when he changed it wasn't that he was under Loki's control, but that the change had been forced upon him by a forced rage that Banner could not control.

When he changed for the finale, that was the anger he does control.

It's even clearer than that with Banner because when he starts getting angry he has unconsciously picked up the staff. So it's as you say, Loki doesn't control anyone but he does have significant influence.

 

[DyeLorean]

When they first see each other, Banner does rub his eyes.

 

[musterd]

I don't think Ruffalo did anything particularly amazing or out of the box - he pretty much looked and sounded like he always does - .......... but he is quite a suitable actor for the role in terms of his mild-mannered personality and appearance.

Completely agree that Whedon deserves half the credit for how great Banner/Hulk turned out but I think what impressed me about Ruffalo's acting was despite the mild mannered-ness that I was expecting from him, there was a strong sense of menace and danger and barely suppressed anger that led to all his twitchiness. And even as he was playing it as if he was afraid of letting the other guy come out, he could still be aggressive and threatening when he is backed into a corner (e.g. his confrontation with Black Widow and the later scene in his lab). It's a very layered performance and even though obviously he had much lesser scenes compared to Bana/Norton, I thought he showed us a lot more sides to Banner while the latter two versions were mostly pretty emo throughout (but I attribute that to the scripts they had to deal with).

It may be just a personal preference but I like it when people/critics pick up on subtle performances, especially in these big blockbuster movies where there is a lot of other things going on to grab your attention. Ruffalo made you want to watch more of Banner/Hulk and I think he achieved that the best out of all the characters (for me, followed very closely by Black Widow & Hawkeye; I want to know what happened in Budapest!)

 

[terry78]

Along with the Loki influence, Hulk usually remembers who pissed off Banner last before he comes out. In this case it was Black Widow. If he hulks out around a bunch of people but you haven't really done anything to him, he more than likely ignores or considers you a friend if you were one to Banner before, subconsciously. Cap and IM were pretty decent to Banner most of the time, so he was fine with them.

 

[Doc Samson]

Yeah, I don't get the Loki having him under control thing. How would Loki have accomplished that? By looking at him while walking by or by him just touching the staff? Doesn't make enough sense to me...

Banner was getting pissed during the discussion before the blast on the helicarrier, then to be completely thrown off and scarred by the blast leading to him having an out of control transformation makes more sense to me.

Agreed, I also think he had some slight animosity towards Black Widow, as he felt she wasn't forthcoming enough when she brought him in. I don't remember exactly what he said to her before he Hulked out when they were lying on the ground, but whatever the case, I think he just freaked out from everything at once, not really because of Loki, at least to me it worked better that way.

 

[Harley2004]

Completely agree that Whedon deserves half the credit for how great Banner/Hulk turned out but I think what impressed me about Ruffalo's acting was despite the mild mannered-ness that I was expecting from him, there was a strong sense of menace and danger and barely suppressed anger that led to all his twitchiness. And even as he was playing it as if he was afraid of letting the other guy come out, he could still be aggressive and threatening when he is backed into a corner (e.g. his confrontation with Black Widow and the later scene in his lab). It's a very layered performance and even though obviously he had much lesser scenes compared to Bana/Norton, I thought he showed us a lot more sides to Banner while the latter two versions were mostly pretty emo throughout (but I attribute that to the scripts they had to deal with).

It may be just a personal preference but I like it when people/critics pick up on subtle performances, especially in these big blockbuster movies where there is a lot of other things going on to grab your attention. Ruffalo made you want to watch more of Banner/Hulk and I think he achieved that the best out of all the characters (for me, followed very closely by Black Widow & Hawkeye; I want to know what happened in Budapest!)

I agree completely about Ruffalo the small mannerisms he did so perfectly whether Whedon, told him to or not is what the made the character. He was the scene stealer, no question. Every scene he was in whether he was Banner of the Hulk. I would actually rather see an Incredible Hulk movie now, with Ruffalo than Avengers 2.

Don't agree about Hawkeye and widow, though. I could care less about Budapest.

 

[Shockdingo]

So what is the popular explanation for why Hulk went after everyone in the helicarrier, yet he was (mostly) in Banners control during the final battle?

My reasoning:

In the helicarrier, Banner was genuinely rattled and had, basically, a panic attack causing him to lose complete control, which triggered the transformation.

In the city, Banner was in complete control of the transformation, leading to his control as the Hulk.

So if Banner is in control of the transformation, he gets control of Hulk. If not, Hulk controls him.

I was thinking about that as well. I think yes, the situation was just so bad, and I think it's like what happened to Mr. Hyde when we popped up in the recent Thunderbolts arc. I think since it had been so long since Banner Hulked out+ plus all the chaos and mistrust, it just amplified him. Plus his internal dialogue was probably "I was right, they're going to trick me into being a weapon, or they're going to try and kill me-US. Don't worry Puny Banner....I'll take care of it so that we're sure."


I also like how he was reluctant to say the word Hulk, as if, him saying it would make him have another incident. It's like the old speak no evil thing about the Devil. Him saying the "other guy" all throughout was a rather interesting bit.

Also good points on how the room scene was shot, and also, it was creepy how Banner didn't even realize he picked up the staff.

 

[Gamma Burst]

One of the details I loved was how scary the Hulk was, even for an incredibly tough girl like Natasha. She was almost in shock after their brief ''meeting''.

 

[DyeLorean]

One of the details I loved was how scary the Hulk was, even for an incredibly tough girl like Natasha. She was almost in shock after their brief ''meeting''.

And how she said to those two guys "get out... get out" with her hands. They could've help her, though. But I understand why she did it.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I loved how she was traumatized after almost gettin the pimp hand from hulk lol.