The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 8

[afan]

Exactly, he WAS trying to put Hulk down after that point, and wasnt very successful



I think due to the location he was restricted, but not strength wise. Also, you could argue Hulk also didnt know Thor and what he was capable of, that was a factor for both of them, not just Thor.

I agree somewhat as Hulk reacts to the stimulus, but it's not a limiting restriction, I.e. Thor's knowledge of the Hulk's duality might cause him to limit his offense as he is aware he is also whacking Banner. Hulk obviously has no such considerations.

 

[Kirmit]

Okay Hulk's stronger than Thor everyone knows that you're not proving anything, the point being no matter what the reason Thor didn't go all out no matter how hard he fought because he didn't use all of the powers at his disposal.

Well Hulk didn't use all his abilities at his disposal either....

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I would have expected some more collateral damage if he had done that, seeing what happened when he struck the hardest blow in the previous fight. He's not trying to calm him down anymore but seeing how he smiled when he noticed how strong Hulk is I still don't see him having really bad intentions.

His smile indicated to me he was happy to have a challenge on his hands, Thor is a warrior after all, I do think from that point he wasnt trying to protect anymore but stop Hulk from doing more damage.

I would personally not agree that it was the most impressive feat, but it was the strike that looked the best visually. Hulk didn't seem to have it as easy bringing a leviathan down when he couldn't use it's own momentum though.

Again though that was down to power-set, even Iron Man had to get inside a Leviathan to do it damage, shows how hard the things armour was yet Hulk was tearing it like paper AND able to make the Leviathan head a different way. Both would have taken amazing strength.

No worries, just checking how it was meant (which is the important part). There certainly is room for interpretation so opinion will come into play. In the end I assume we'll agree to disagree.

I think in the end that will be the case, but its still great to discuss it, another amazing thing this movie has given the fans.

I don't think Hulk was no where near going all out, sure he was angry and rampaging but I never felt he was stetched to his limits in that fight.

Same, look at the stuff he did in the final battle compared to the helicarrier sequence, he was obviously not going all out on the helicarrier, he probably could have toppled it with one punch like he did the Leviathan.

 

[BigThor]

Well Hulk didn't use all his abilities at his disposal either....

Yes he did, he used his strength which is the basis for 95% of his other offensive powers.

Ground slams, thunder claps, etc are not exactly different abilities just different attacks using his same strength.

 

[Kirmit]

Nah he was out of control meaning he was definately going all out there's no way around that.

Being out of control doesn't mean he was stretched to his limits.

 

[BigThor]

Being out of control doesn't mean he was stretched to his limits.

I didn't say he stretched his limits, I merely stated that he was fighting as hard as he could at the time while Thor wasn't due to his lack of lightning usage.

His smile indicated to me he was happy to have a challenge on his hands, Thor is a warrior after all, I do think from that point he wasnt trying to protect anymore but stop Hulk from doing more damage.

Thanks for continuing to prove my point, you can't "go all out" when you're trying to keep someone from causing damage it doesn't work that way.

 

[The Sage]

Hulk was also FULLY enraged which meant he was probably more powerful at that point that he was at any other point in the film.

The sheer fact that Thor didn't use any lightning attacks should show that he wasn't trying to "put Hulk down".

I imagine if Thor had used Mjolnir and called down the lightning, it would've been similar to how Chi'tauri was overwhelming Hulk towards the end.

I'm gonna have to watch for this stuff when I see it again later.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Ah comic book battles, the bane of all fandom.
Honestly, it's not really important who's stronger than who. Just take solace in the fact that both Thor and Hulk would be equally crushed under the might of The Void

 

[Kirmit]

Same, look at the stuff he did in the final battle compared to the helicarrier sequence, he was obviously not going all out on the helicarrier, he probably could have toppled it with one punch like he did the Leviathan.

BINGO! .

Yes he did, he used his strength which is the basis for 95% of his other offensive powers.

Ground slams, thunder claps, etc are not exactly different abilities just different attacks using his same strength.

They are classed as different abilities, which he didn't use. I could also say Hulk didn't use his enhanced speed but then you'd say neither did Thor .

 

[Nathan]

Banner always has some sort of control no matter what, thats why Hulk in the comics never really kills people, doubt he would have killed Widow.

Comics. This isn't the comics. Hulk has killed in his last Movie. And as it was confirmed, The Incredible Hulk is canon. It's still part of the Movies building toward Avengers. If Thor hadn't interrupted, you can be sure that Widow would have been a red smear.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I definitely think he would have. He had no reason to act like he did if he wasn't trying to do that, and the reason he did was that he was under the influence of Loki and the stone.

I thought that the fact that Widow was about to get killed was the best non-direct displays of Loki's power.

Again though, Banner always has some sort of control, I think he would have thrown her about, whether that would have killed her we dont know.

Nah he was out of control meaning he was definately going all out there's no way around that.

Again though, he looked much stronger and more powerful in the final battle, and did a lot more damage, if he been going all out, he'd have done a lot more damage to the helicarrier.

Yeah he was definately in "fight mode" once he summoned Mjolnir but no matter how hard he fought he was still holding back due to his lack of lightning usage.

Point. blank. period

Again though, my point was always he wasnt in protecting mode throughout the whole fight, just at first, THEN he was trying to put Hulk down, but without hurting anyone in the vacinity. I dont think either character was going all out, and the final battle showed this.

I agree somewhat as Hulk reacts to the stimulus, but it's not a limiting restriction, I.e. Thor's knowledge of the Hulk's duality might cause him to limit his offense as he is aware he is also whacking Banner. Hulk obviously has no such considerations.

Thor quickly realised what he was dealing with though, hence him summoning Mjolnir and trying to directly fight with Hulk rather than reason with him.

Well Hulk didn't use all his abilities at his disposal either....

Agreed, no thunderclap for one.

 

[The Sage]

Thor could've summoned lightning, or created tornadoes like he did against Destroyer.

Maybe Thor can mention in his next movie about seeking a rematch with Hulk.

 

[Mjölnir]

His smile indicated to me he was happy to have a challenge on his hands, Thor is a warrior after all, I do think from that point he wasnt trying to protect anymore but stop Hulk from doing more damage.

Yes, he was definitely going to hit Hulk hard from that point, but I don't think he went to his max since we've seen bigger effects from his hits at other points. I definitely feel he hit Cap's shield harder, both due to effect (a bit hard to judge since it was reflected) and due to that he actually was angry then.

Again though that was down to power-set, even Iron Man had to get inside a Leviathan to do it damage, shows how hard the things armour was yet Hulk was tearing it like paper AND able to make the Leviathan head a different way. Both would have taken amazing strength.

Yes, Hulk is the strongest one there is, no doubt about that. But he still didn't have the same big moments with the second leviathan, even compared to Thor. He drove in that armor fragment quite a bit but Thor's hit drove in a bigger part of it (although it was of course the lightning that did the relevant damage) so they weren't really displayed that differently there.

I think in the end that will be the case, but its still great to discuss it, another amazing thing this movie has given the fans.

Yes, to have a friendly discussion with someone that has a different opinion about a fun topic is great.

Same, look at the stuff he did in the final battle compared to the helicarrier sequence, he was obviously not going all out on the helicarrier, he probably could have toppled it with one punch like he did the Leviathan.

I doubt it because the Helicarrier is a very different structure. The leviathan was a living being and while the punch wrecked it's face the big effect came from that Hulk stood still and stopped almost all of the leviathan's momentum. If he punches a wall in the Helicarrier that wall just has a new hole in it.

Of course Hulk could destroy the Helicarrier, it just takes some time.

 

[BigThor]

They are classed as different abilities, which he didn't use. I could also say Hulk didn't use his enhanced speed but then you'd say neither did Thor .

Hulk doesn't have enhanced speed in the MCU and neither does Thor so that's irrelevant, but Thor is able create tornadoes and summon lighting in the MCU which he didn't use against Hulk for fear of destroying the Helicarrier.

You guys are seriously misunderstand what I'm saying, I'm not saying he didn't go all out so he wouldn't hurt Hulk I'm saying he didn't go all out because of his environment.

^^^ That's not even debatable no matter how hard anyone tries.

 

[Kirmit]

I didn't say he stretched his limits, I merely stated that he was fighting as hard as he could at the time while Thor wasn't due to his lack of lightning usage.

Stetched limits = fighting as hard as you could, which I don't believe Hulk was, sure he was angry and wanting to fight but as hard as he possibly could? Nah.

 

[Mjölnir]

Again though, Banner always has some sort of control, I think he would have thrown her about, whether that would have killed her we dont know.

I doubt Widow could take Hulk throwing her around but I doubt that's what would happen since Hulk is posed to strike her when Thor interrupts.

 

[BigThor]

Stetched limits = fighting as hard as you could, which I don't believe Hulk was, sure he was angry and wanting to fight but as hard as he possibly could? Nah.

Technically Hulk doesn't have limits so he's never stetching his limits and no matter how you slice it he was clearly fighting as hard as he could.

He merely seemed more powerful in the final battle because his targest were larger, the destruction didn't come from Hulk's attacks but from the leviathans reactions to those attacks.

I doubt it because the Helicarrier is a very different structure. The leviathan was a living being and while the punch wrecked it's face the big effect came from that Hulk stood still and stopped almost all of the leviathan's momentum. If he punches a wall in the Helicarrier that wall just has a new hole in it.

Of course Hulk could destroy the Helicarrier, it just takes some time.

Clearly

Plus Hulk's punch against the leviathan wasn't just a "punch" he was also bracing himself and using his fist to "push" the leviathan.

 

[Nathan]

Again though, Banner always has some sort of control, I think he would have thrown her about, whether that would have killed her we dont know.

Again, comics. In the Movies, Banner doesn't control the Hulk subconsciously, so he could basically level an entire city, with somehow no one ever getting hurt. Savage Hulk in the movie-verse is a loose cannon. You get in his way, you get smashed. And I actually like it this way. What's the point of being rage incarnate, if miraculously no innocents ever get hurt?

 

[Kirmit]

Hulk doesn't have enhanced speed in the MCU and neither does Thor so that's irrelevant, but Thor is able create tornadoes and summon lighting in the MCU which he didn't use against Hulk for fear of destroying the Helicarrier.

Actually Hulk has been shown to have enhanced speed during the campus fight in TIH, he was able to catch up with the military vehicles and Blonsky, who was definately running faster than a normal human could.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yes, he was definitely going to hit Hulk hard from that point, but I don't think he went to his max since we've seen bigger effects from his hits at other points. I definitely feel he hit Cap's shield harder, both due to effect (a bit hard to judge since it was reflected) and due to that he actually was angry then.

I dont think he hit Caps shield harder, I just think the combination of Mjolnir and Vibranium is what caused the damage, afterall, Thor's hits didnt damage Iron Man much.

Yes, Hulk is the strongest one there is, no doubt about that. But he still didn't have the same big moments with the second leviathan, even compared to Thor. He drove in that armor fragment quite a bit but Thor's hit drove in a bigger part of it (although it was of course the lightning that did the relevant damage) so they weren't really displayed that differently there.

Thor was using Mjolnir though, which gives him a bit of an advantage with the hits, down a straight punch from Thor would have put the fragment in as much.

I wouldnt say Thor was as durable as Hulk in that way, yes Thor survived the 5 mile drop, but so did Hulk who also had momentum from the explosion propelling him down.

Yes, to have a friendly discussion with someone that has a different opinion about a fun topic is great.

Indeed, it makes me wonder what things we will get to discuss in Avengers 2 as well.

I doubt it because the Helicarrier is a very different structure. The leviathan was a living being and while the punch wrecked it's face the big effect came from that Hulk stood still and stopped almost all of the leviathan's momentum. If he punches a wall in the Helicarrier that wall just has a new hole in it.

Of course Hulk could destroy the Helicarrier, it just takes some time.

Well, like the Leviathan, it would depend on were Hulk hit the helicarrier, a punch to a certain location would have incapacitated it probably.

 

[BigThor]

Actually Hulk has been shown to have enhanced speed during the campus fight in TIH, he was able to catch up with the military vehicles and Blonsky, who was definately running faster than a normal human could.

Running speed and reaction speed are to different things, he also showed superior reaction speed when catching Mjolnir so yes he used this power as well.

Hulk is not Thor, he's not going to pick and choose which powers he's going to use so just because he didn't do a thundner clap it doesn't meant he wasn't going all out.

I dont think he hit Caps shield harder, I just think the combination of Mjolnir and Vibranium is what caused the damage, afterall, Thor's hits didnt damage Iron Man much.

But he was able to crush IM's armor with his bare hands, plus he never hit Iron Man with a big swing from Moljnir.

The only time he used Mjolnir against IM was a "hammer throw" and a casual slap right before he attacks Cap.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Running speed and reaction speed are to different things, he also showed superior reaction speed when catching Mjolnir so yes he used this power as well.

Hulk is not Thor, he's not going to pick and choose which powers he's going to use so just because he didn't do a thundner clap it doesn't meant he wasn't going all out.

But just look at the evidence of the final battle Hulk performed much bigger feats of strength and durability in the final battle than ANYTHING in the Helicarrier sequence. Prime example, he stopped dead a Leviathan with one punch in the final battle, yet it took him a good minute or so to destroy a jet in the helicarrier sequence. No way he was going all out in the helicarrier sequence.

 

[BigThor]

But just look at the evidence of the final battle Hulk performed much bigger feats of strength and durability in the final battle than ANYTHING in the Helicarrier sequence. Prime example, he stopped dead a Leviathan with one punch in the final battle, yet it took him a good minute or so to destroy a jet in the helicarrier sequence. No way he was going all out in the helicarrier sequence.

That's because he was pulling the jet apart NOT punching it and like I said he wasn't just "punching" the leviathan".

He was bracing himsel for impact and using his fist to push the leviathan into stopping as evidenced by him keeping his fist up well after the punch.

 

[Nathan]

He barely had a good grip on the Jet and was slipping, then he kept tearing it apart until the pilot finally decided to get the hell out, then soon after it went boom. That's like saying Hulk is suddenly weaker because he doesn't knock out the 2nd Leviathan immediately and instead takes his sweet time tearing it apart.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But he was able to crush IM's armor with his bare hands, plus he never hit Iron Man with a big swing from Moljnir.

The only time he used Mjolnir against IM was a "hammer throw" and a casual slap right before he attacks Cap.

It may be my memory but I remember him hitting Iron Man a few times with the hammer, plus, in his own movie he took out several Frost Giants with just a hammer throw, so they are quite powerful.