The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 9

[DarkJester]

Couple thoughts on Hulk in The Avengers...

-Would've liked more connections to TIH. New actor and new Hulk model make Avengers Hulk seem disconnected from TIH, so an appearance from Gen. Ross would've been nice.

-Gotta say, I love the new Hulk's face, but prefer the body/stature of TIH's model.

-I hate to be in the extreme minority, but I feel Norton brought much more heart to the role than Ruffalo. I will say I found Ruffalo's Banner much more humorous, however.

-Hulk's voice. His "Puny God" line sounds... off. It just doesn't sound like how we've heard his voice in TIH or even Ang Lee's Hulk.

I do hope they greenlight a Hulk sequel so I can see Ruffalo prove me wrong in what would be "his" movie. Can't get enough Hulk.

 

[musterd]

"Anger is an energy."
brilliant stuff

The reaction to Avenger's Banner/Hulk is great. Loads of well-written articles exploring his character arc and I think a lot of people related to the anger and control aspect of Banner.

 

[darknight7]

I saw avengers twice, midnight and opening night. while at the midnight showing I noticed when hulk is being shot at by the jet and the hulk roars then jumps onto the jet, I thought I was just hearing things but it sounded very much like he yells "STOP" and his mouth movements matched. So when I went to the opening night, I knew what to look for, the theater room I was in was actually quieter than the midnight and I could hear him yell "STOP" and again his mouth movements fit. its actually the sequence that my avvy is based on.
I know a lot of people will disagree but I'm pretty sure of what I saw, I think someone else here mentioned it as well.

You're right. He says STOP I heard it the first and second time

--dk7

 

[darknight7]

I've watched the movie 3 times and LOL at that bit every time but no one else does, must need a selected sense of humour .

agreed...

loved that scene as well laughed both times I saw it

--dk7

 

[Spider-X]

After having re-watched The Avengers, I took note that Ruffalo infused pretty much every scene of his Banner with having a simmering anger. He's likeable but always more on the pessimistic side, and why wouldn't you be with "the other guy" living in you? It's fitting given that

Spoiler

his secret to keeping the Hulk at bay is always being anger

and you know it's not just a coincidence. It's really well done acting and giving depth to the character with a very subtle coping mechanism is what it is. Really great stuff.

 

[terry78]

It's actually a pretty viable solution that you'd think the comics Banner would have thought of before now.

 

[Dark Raven]

It's actually a pretty viable solution that you'd think the comics Banner would have thought of before now.

Not sure how that is a solution. Won't that mean he's always the Hulk if he's always angry? He's always tried to steer away from anger and situations that would make him angry.

 

[Quasimod0]

When you bottle up anger, it eventually bursts out and you can't control it. If you just let yourself e angry, you can focus and control it and keep it from getting out of hand

 

[darknight7]

Not sure how that is a solution. Won't that mean he's always the Hulk if he's always angry? He's always tried to steer away from anger and situations that would make him angry.

Essentially it means he can control his anger. He is always angry, meaning he is both Bruce and the Hulk. By always being angry, but not transforming just implies that he can control his transformation.

--dk7

 

[darknight7]

I heard a friend of mine describe it like this:

"An recovering alcoholic may be clean for months at a time. But that doesn't mean they aren't alcoholics. It just means they are in control of that habit."

--dk7

 

[LostSon88]

Couple thoughts on Hulk in The Avengers...

-Would've liked more connections to TIH. New actor and new Hulk model make Avengers Hulk seem disconnected from TIH, so an appearance from Gen. Ross would've been nice.

Destroying Harlem, his attempted suicide, the video of his attack at the college as Stark is reviewing the files Coulson gives him, the notion that he's learned to control his anger…

That was enough references to TIH for me.

 

[craigdbfan]

There were more references to TIH than I expected.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Well, you have to unthink that because Marvel stated that The Incredible Hulk was not a direct sequel, loose or otherwise, to Ang Lee's Hulk movie.

I agree. I dont know how anyone can watch the opening credits of incredible hulk and think its a sequel of any kind. The origin and story behind him being hulk is pretty different. Im happy with the reference they give TIH in plavengers. "last time I was in new york I sort of broke harlem" yes u did sir.

Gale Anne Herd, who produced both Hulk and TIH, said "We couldn't quite figure out how to term this ... It's kind of a reboot and it's kind of sequel."

I remember expecting more of a reboot before seeing TIH, and they did tweak the backstory (mainly by having Thunderbolt Ross at the experiment), but the connections were there:

*In the end of Hulk, Bruce is in the Amazon Rainforest. A lot of the AR is in Brazil. Where does TIH begin? Brazil.

*In TIH, Bruce has been hiding for years, apart from Betty and pursued by her father, which was how the 2003 Hulk left those two characters.

Granted, there was no talk of nanomeds, David Banner, etc..but TIH wasn't nearly the complete retelling of Bruce's story as some people have suggested.

While all three versions of the on-screen Hulk are different, the body of the Avengers' Hulk was closer to Ang's Hulk than Leterrier's.

 

[Spider-X]

I heard a friend of mine describe it like this:

"An recovering alcoholic may be clean for months at a time. But that doesn't mean they aren't alcoholics. It just means they are in control of that habit."

--dk7

lol, more like "I used to get out of control, destructive drunk from time to time...so now, to stay in control, *beer bottle in hand* I just stay buzzed all the time "

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I like that analogy Spider-X. Just about right I think.

 

[jaqua99]

Oh yes, that was hilarious. It was all about the choice of camera angle that made it funny, too. And the roar, of course.

I don't know why, but I found that scene soo funny. It was almost like a, "ohp, and there goes Hulk" haha

 

[Avenger]

Gale Anne Herd, who produced both Hulk and TIH, said "We couldn't quite figure out how to term this ... It's kind of a reboot and it's kind of sequel."

I like to call those 'requels.' Movies that serve as both prequels and reboots (ala Star Trek '09) are 'preboots.' t:

 

[jaqua99]

The funniest thing is that Loki was a changed god after he took that beat down.

He didn't try to escape or plot, he was ready to go home to Asgard.

Now that's a proper ass whooping.

Eh, well because when he got up, he was surrounded with his army dead. I feel like him not trrying to excape and what not had absolutely nothing to do with Hulk's attack.

 

[Spider-X]

I like that analogy Spider-X. Just about right I think.

Thank you much

Eh, well because when he got up, he was surrounded with his army dead. I feel like him not trrying to excape and what not had absolutely nothing to do with Hulk's attack.

Not to mention he might have had to answer to Thanos if he were to try and peace out on his own...and I'm thinking Asgard prison is a nicer place than dealing with the repercussions of letting Thanos down.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I like to call those 'requels.' Movies that serve as both prequels and reboots (ala Star Trek '09) are 'preboots.' t"

That's funny. I do something similar. When my wife asked about the movie, I told her it was a "tweakquel". Marvel shed parts of the story it didn't need going forward, but it didn't re-do/contradict as much of Hulk as I anticipated.

 

[Gianakin_]

While I get that the effects/design has gotten better with subsequent version of The Hulk, I don't understand how you can watch THE HULK and THE INCREDIBLE HULK and not be interested in the character until THE AVENGERS. It's one thing to LIKE what he does in THE AVENGERS more...but most of the traits he had in THE AVENGERS were in the previous two films.

I agree that he needed Hulk and TIH to become the Avengers' Hulk story progression-wise, but I really didn't care for the character up until then. Too much focusing on his curse, not enough on the queally important part of Banner/Hulk: That he fights/hates/whatever the Hulk because when he transforms he loses his humanity, his life. When they don't show me this humanity and life, they've lost me.

In the previous movies, I was seeing a walking corspe, hard to get behind and feel for that. In the Avengers I saw a human being that fought.

 

[Dark Raven]

I like to call those 'requels.' Movies that serve as both prequels and reboots (ala Star Trek '09) are 'preboots.' t:

A preboot is what a bouncer does at the door when he stops you getting into a club instead of throwing you out later.

I agree that he needed Hulk and TIH to become the Avengers' Hulk story progression-wise, but I really didn't care for the character up until then. Too much focusing on his curse, not enough on the queally important part of Banner/Hulk: That he fights/hates/whatever the Hulk because when he transforms he loses his humanity, his life. When they don't show me this humanity and life, they've lost me.


In the previous movies, I was seeing a walking corspe, hard to get behind and feel for that. In the Avengers I saw a human being that fought.

The thing is that Bill Bixby's Banner always highlighted the curse but also wasn't a walking corpse but a very real human being you cared about. He probably played up the curse and tragic aspect more so than any other actor, but that didn't stop him from being compassionate for others and not completely self obsessed.

 

[Gianakin_]

The thing is that Bill Bixby's Banner always highlighted the curse but also wasn't a walking corpse but a very real human being you cared about. He probably played up the curse and tragic aspect more so than any other actor, but that didn't stop him from being compassionate for others and not completely self obsessed.

Yeah, indeed. I was talking about the cinematic Hulks, though.

 

[Fifthchild]

I think thats a decent point and to me it highlights something ive long felt about CGI and as it relates to the Hulk in particular. If people dont like a movie/performance they will heap **** on the CGI and say it looks fake. But if they do like it they will usually unanimously praise it. You could maybe call it the "Best Picture" effect in reference to the way that the movie that wins Best Picture often cleans up in a lot of categories where it really has no business doing so. I thought Avengers Hulk on the whole was good, sometimes great and other times clearly just OK or decent enough. But nobody really cares because they thought the Hulk was a blast.

That promo still image of the Hulk grimacing though is amazing.

To be honest, I thought the Hulk looked slightly less impressive than I thought he would. He's definitely more consistent than either of the previous films, and the best shots are really great. But he still didn't look as integrated in his surroundings at certain times like he did in Ang's film. In particular when he tries to lift the hammer, when he's standing with the rest of the group around IM near the end, or even when he first enters the room to confront Loki. No doubt this is the best visual representation yet, but I firmly believe the best shots in the '03 movie are still on par with the best shots of this film, and I didn't think that would happen.

 

[Fifthchild]

Still think the best Hulk transformation scenes are the first one in TIH when Banner Hulks out in the soda factory (it was really ominous and the eyes turning bright green really sold it), and the "detransformation" in Ang Lee's film where Hulk turns back into Banner and falls at Betty's feet in the middle of downtown San Francisco.

The two Hulk outs in The Avengers were good mind you, but didnt really have the emotional impact of the two I listed above.

I'd probably say that the change from Hulk back to Banner in 2003 is actually the best looking of all the transformation scenes. While we are at a stage where technology has pretty much nailed the creation and animation of a near photorealistic humanoid if you invest enough money/time I think you can still see the gaps in the transformation scenes - thats much harder. Though i hate it and most of the CGI work I also have to say the transformation scene in the lab from TIH was pretty well done for a "full frontal" shot.

Rewatched The Wolfman the other day and that has a terrific transformation scene when Del Toro is in the asylum. Apparently it took a lot of time and work. I dont think the transformation scenes in Avengers were given as high a priority.