The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - - - Part 12

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Wow, Cliche Rhino ended an entire film franchise and now apparently a really good thread too? Sheesh. Just wanted to throw in a quick 'n' dirty very preliminary thought about these movies in.

The Raimi movies will always hold a special spot in my heart. I'm younger than probably a majority of the people who post in this thread, and was first introduced to Spidey by the 90s animated series, the early PS1 games, and then these movies. I didn't pick up a comic book until much later (Ultimate Spider-Man Ultimate Collection Hardback Vol. 1 at Books a Million--fell in love) and it wasn't until much more recently that I started picking up single issues (aside from a promotion Marvel ran right before Civil War in the mid-00s where they placed reprints of the first 20-or-so Stan & Steve classic issues in a local paper--loved those things!).

While I always loved watching the cartoon and it really captured my imagination, six-year-old me was STOKED when I first saw Spider-Man. It all seemed so real. I was sucked in, never to escape. The lore was so rich, the world so lived in, the characters so relatable and fleshed-out. Tobey Maguire WAS Spider-Man (although, even a preteen ItchyWebShooter didn't believe Tobey Maguire was in high school)!

I could wax nostalgia about these films all day--my dad and siblings and I used to sleep in the living room, eat ice cream, and watch Spider-Man whenever my mom was out of town. Spider-Man 2 is the first movie I ever remember being so excited to go see, and so awed and thrilled walking out of the theater. And even as Spider-Man 3 brought a close to my favorite film trilogy of all time, it sort of served as a close to my childhood--a chapter in my life.

These films were my favorite because I grew up watching them and Spider-Man was my favorite fictional character. These things remain true to this day. But as I've gotten older and started appreciating more of the technique and nuance of film and filmmaking, I've realized just what great examples of superhero cinema these films are--especially at the time they were released! Sam Raimi had a way with tracking shots, unique POVs, and a real sense of location in his scenes. There was never a boring shot in this series. And even as some of the CGI effects have become dated, 90% of the effects in these movies look as realistic as some of the big-budget blockbusters being released today. I'm sure that is in large part due to Raimi's affinity for using practical effects when possible, something I will never stop loving and respecting him for.

I'll never quite be able to fully divorce my feelings for these films from the memories I have of the joy they brought me--watching with friends, eagerly anticipating 3 with one of my closest friends to this day, playing all the video game tie-ins with many friends, etc.--so I'll never be completely impartial, but as distanced as I can get myself from all that; my feelings about these movies shift only marginally. I still enjoy the heck out of them, and I believe that I would if I'd just seen them for the first time a few weeks back.

Of course nothing is perfect. There are flaws in each of these, the most visible appearing in the much-derided Spider-Man 3, but there's a true sense of energy, of love for the characters pulsating throughout each--and I think that's what continues (and will continue) to separate them from such trite money-grabs as X3, Ghost Rider, and many other of its contemporaries. I can't remember who said it (it may have been Peter Travers, or perhaps Roger Ebert--and I'm paraphrasing) but the statement "There is a heartbeat under the action and drama" has never rung truer. I believe that's why MCU films have been so successful, and I hope the success continues with a great new Spidey film next summer. But Raimi's masterpieces--the Spider-Man trilogy--will always hold a special spot in my heart (and obviously millions of others). Regardless of what some snobs and nitpickers think, I believe it's very obvious that the man had a true and genuine love for the character and his mythos and that he gave us what he believed was the best version he could do on film. These movies will always be some of my favorites and will live on as my favorite film trilogy ever indefinitely!

Nice post. Welcome aboard :up:

I'd put it in the top 5, probably top 2 alongside TDK.

Ditto. It's #2 after TDK for me. Even Kevin Fiege said he considers it one of the best superhero movies ever, and that's the standard they have to live up to for Spider-Man Homecoming.
 
As much as I like TDK, it's not consistently well directed at all. It's filled to the brim with editing mistakes, sloppy camera work, and rushed directing of actors. Nolan simply didn't have the mastery of cinematic form (at the time) that Raimi had in Spider-man 2.

Iron Man is great. The first two thirds that is. The rest is just good. The climax lacks the gut punch of TDK and Spider-man 2.

Spider-Man 2 is certainly more polished and beautiful. I felt the editing suited TDK, but I'm not an expert by any means lol.

Agreed. I recently rewatched it, and while I warmed to the third act conflict more than I have in the past, it seems to lose a certain something right after the party scene.

Nice post. Welcome aboard :up:

Thanks, it's an honor haha. I was actually searching around for that link you have to a webpage you made comparing movie Ock to comic Ock... you wouldn't happen to still have that, would you? Made for a FACSCINATING read and was really well-researched.
 
When it comes to "Best Made" comic book movies, Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight are undoubtedly at the very top of the list, in my opinion. Easily.
 
Although i'm disappointed we never got to see a fourth film directed by Raimi, i've never thought Spider-Man 3 would have been much better received if Sony didn't force him to use Venom.

When i do a trilogy re-watch i always stop at the end of Spider-Man 2. This time i decided to watch Spider-Man 3 again and Venom and the black costume are the least of the film's problems.

Everything concerning MJ (including shoehorning Gwen) is badly written, ill advised and miscalculated.

In the first film Peter denies his feelings, sacrificing his personal life for her safety.
In the second film, it's obvious they both care for each other but again, self-conflict stops their unity...until the fantastic ending where they both decide that nothing is strong enough to keep them apart.

What does the third movie do? Shows that actually everything can keep them apart, presenting MJ as a jealous, insecure girl and Peter as neglectful idiot, contrary to what transpired in the first two films.

Sandman could and should have been a lot better, but the Uncle Ben retcon is still as horrendous a mistake as it was 10 years ago. Raimi's insistence that every single villain has to be personally connected to Peter shows a very narrow understanding of how to develop a credible villain especially since the other villain in the film, the Goblin, had the personal grudge with Peter that was brewing for three films and had emotional heft which none of the Sandman melodrama did.

Aside from the car throwing in the cafe scene, Spider-Man 2 is for my money, the most flawless comic book film made so far. Everything from the character interactions, the villain, the performances, the action scenes deliver a fantastic yet grounded experience. It flows beautifully from the first film, every character gets further development and it has a natural progress in it's world.

Spider-Man 3 feels the complete opposite, every recurring character regresses, relationships fester, there's no sense of growth anywhere in the story, the action scenes are cartoony, the villains motivations are laughable at best and the one who had an actual motivations changes his mind in a terribly written way.

Yes, Venom and Topher by extension, were a bad addition to the franchise and the black costume's influence gave us too many campy scenes instead of serious contemplation but there's no idea, no burst of creativity, no inspiration in the film. It's a sequel made because the first two film made a ton of money and had a tremendous reception not because Raimi had something to explore or add to the characters.

At the end of Spider-Man 2, MJ and Peter are together and he has accepted his place as both Peter Parker and Spider-Man. He accepted his gift/curse and the responsibility that his Uncle's death brought to him.

At the end of Spider-Man 3, Harry is dead, MJ and Peter's relationship is at the worst place in the entire trilogy. Oh and Peter had nothing to do with his Uncle's death so all that guilt in the first two films was for nothing. The film took two steps back from where the second ended in every possible way.
 
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I disagree completely, heck even the ending of SM2 hints that their relationship won't be easy, the last frame of the movie is MJ looking disappointed or slightly concerned. Their relationship was one of the things that I actually loved about SM3(mostly the themes and ideas rather than the way it was executed) because it turned the tables from the first movie were Peter was just a nerd and MJ the popular girl. In SM3 Peter finally managed to balance his life and became overconfident because for the first time in his life everything was working well for him and people actually appreciated what he was doing. It was the opposite for MJ, and the contrast between both of them is very interesting and both are understandable in their own ways(minus MJ cheating).

Their relationship failing just makes sense, its almost naive to think it was gonna work and that's what makes it work.
 
Their relationship didn't fail though. They reconciled at the end of SM-3.
 
When it comes to "Best Made" comic book movies, Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight are undoubtedly at the very top of the list, in my opinion. Easily.

Same. Civil War is probably above Spiderman 2 for me now, but it would still easily be top 5.

Maybe
1) The Dark Knight
2) Captain America: Civil War
3) Spiderman 2
4) The Avengers
5) Captain America: The Winter Soldier

My list tends to change all the time though, The Dark Knight being #1 is the only thing that stays the same.
 
The first Iron Man deserves to be up there.

Agreed.

Top Five "Best Made" comic book movies (in my opinion):

1. Spider-Man 2
2. The Dark Knight
3. Iron Man 1
4. Superman: The Movie
5. tie between Burton's first Batman movie and the first Avengers movie

Keep in mind that some of these are not in my signature. That's because my signature contains my FAVORITE comic book movies, not the ones that I think are the "best made" films.
 
Their relationship didn't fail though. They reconciled at the end of SM-3.
That must have been a weird conversation.

Peter: "Yeah, the reason I hit you in the face was because I was possessed by an alien symbiote that turned my costume black, enhanced my negative personality traits and made me dance like a jackass. Forgive me?"

MJ: "Sure, tiger! It's about on the same level of weird as a guy with four metal tentacles and guys flying around in Goblin masks anyway, so..."

:funny:
 
Wow, Cliche Rhino ended an entire film franchise and now apparently a really good thread too? Sheesh. Just wanted to throw in a quick 'n' dirty very preliminary thought about these movies in.

The Raimi movies will always hold a special spot in my heart. I'm younger than probably a majority of the people who post in this thread, and was first introduced to Spidey by the 90s animated series, the early PS1 games, and then these movies. I didn't pick up a comic book until much later (Ultimate Spider-Man Ultimate Collection Hardback Vol. 1 at Books a Million--fell in love) and it wasn't until much more recently that I started picking up single issues (aside from a promotion Marvel ran right before Civil War in the mid-00s where they placed reprints of the first 20-or-so Stan & Steve classic issues in a local paper--loved those things!).

While I always loved watching the cartoon and it really captured my imagination, six-year-old me was STOKED when I first saw Spider-Man. It all seemed so real. I was sucked in, never to escape. The lore was so rich, the world so lived in, the characters so relatable and fleshed-out. Tobey Maguire WAS Spider-Man (although, even a preteen ItchyWebShooter didn't believe Tobey Maguire was in high school)!

I could wax nostalgia about these films all day--my dad and siblings and I used to sleep in the living room, eat ice cream, and watch Spider-Man whenever my mom was out of town. Spider-Man 2 is the first movie I ever remember being so excited to go see, and so awed and thrilled walking out of the theater. And even as Spider-Man 3 brought a close to my favorite film trilogy of all time, it sort of served as a close to my childhood--a chapter in my life.

These films were my favorite because I grew up watching them and Spider-Man was my favorite fictional character. These things remain true to this day. But as I've gotten older and started appreciating more of the technique and nuance of film and filmmaking, I've realized just what great examples of superhero cinema these films are--especially at the time they were released! Sam Raimi had a way with tracking shots, unique POVs, and a real sense of location in his scenes. There was never a boring shot in this series. And even as some of the CGI effects have become dated, 90% of the effects in these movies look as realistic as some of the big-budget blockbusters being released today. I'm sure that is in large part due to Raimi's affinity for using practical effects when possible, something I will never stop loving and respecting him for.

I'll never quite be able to fully divorce my feelings for these films from the memories I have of the joy they brought me--watching with friends, eagerly anticipating 3 with one of my closest friends to this day, playing all the video game tie-ins with many friends, etc.--so I'll never be completely impartial, but as distanced as I can get myself from all that; my feelings about these movies shift only marginally. I still enjoy the heck out of them, and I believe that I would if I'd just seen them for the first time a few weeks back.

Of course nothing is perfect. There are flaws in each of these, the most visible appearing in the much-derided Spider-Man 3, but there's a true sense of energy, of love for the characters pulsating throughout each--and I think that's what continues (and will continue) to separate them from such trite money-grabs as X3, Ghost Rider, and many other of its contemporaries. I can't remember who said it (it may have been Peter Travers, or perhaps Roger Ebert--and I'm paraphrasing) but the statement "There is a heartbeat under the action and drama" has never rung truer. I believe that's why MCU films have been so successful, and I hope the success continues with a great new Spidey film next summer. But Raimi's masterpieces--the Spider-Man trilogy--will always hold a special spot in my heart (and obviously millions of others). Regardless of what some snobs and nitpickers think, I believe it's very obvious that the man had a true and genuine love for the character and his mythos and that he gave us what he believed was the best version he could do on film. These movies will always be some of my favorites and will live on as my favorite film trilogy ever indefinitely!

I agree with everything in your post.
Those films hold a special place in my heart as well.
 
I just finished a rewatch of the trilogy with Spider-Man 3 last night, and despite its flaws I really enjoyed it. It's weird in a way, but I think I like 3 more every time I watch it, despite some problems becoming more apparent--the good becomes more apparent to me, too. I miss this franchise.
 
When it comes to "Best Made" comic book movies, Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight are undoubtedly at the very top of the list, in my opinion. Easily.

I agree. Taking comic book fandom out of the equation, The Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2 are the only two quintessential viewings for the genre.
 
Did an awesome job in a limited role in the trilogy. Sad to hear of his passing.
 
Anyone loved the Spider-man 2 easter egg in CIvil War? Just look at Parker's shirt in his first scene.
 
I must have missed it. What was it?
 
His t-shirt had a picture of pizza on it. Referring to Peter's delivery boy job in SM2.
 
Not just a Pizza. A piece was missing. Making it an even better reference.
 
Heh. Idk if that was actually intentional or not, but if it was, well done. Hadn't even thought about it.
 
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