The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 8

[Victarion]

http://planethenderson.tumblr.com/post/47097509249/gallery-6-spider-man-4

More concept art for SM4. Another poster posted it in a TASM2 forum, and I feel like it belongs in here.

Is that Morbius in the second 'board?

 

[Dagenspear]

I have no idea what is going on in those boards tbh, but the loss of SM4 will always hurt me.

ASM was a kick in the teeth as it was, but watching the film I felt especially saddened because the Gwen/Captain Stacy/Lizard material would have all been perfect in a following Raimi movie.

This is what I've ALWAYS said. The material Webb took and hacked away at, could've been better handled by a crew who, I dunno, was actually GOOD. My God, TASM sucks on so many levels. I mean, at least that's how I view it, that Raimi could've done much better. I know what had in mind, when I constructed a story for a SM4, and it was ten times better than what they did in Webb's amateur hour. Although Stacy wasn't killed by the Lizard in my story, he was killed by Cletus Cassidy (NOT as Carnage though). I remember being really proud of myself when I decided that Connors had lost his arm in Desert Storm and had spent a long time trying to fix it, became obsessed with it, almost to the point of neglecting his wife, but when his wife became pregnant she told him that she wouldn't raise her child in a household where his father was neglecting him, so Connors stopped, but when he gets the piece of the symbiote (from Peter in SM3), and discovered it's ability to enhance the traits of it's host, he'd start to become obsessed again, there'd be some science (!) mumbo jumbo about him being able to extract the essence of the symbiote and enhance Lizard DNA with it, and he'd be about to test it when his wife, seeing the signs of obsession again, would start to take their son and leave, and Connors, desperate and frenzied would, instead of testing it, just immediately use it on himself to prove to his wife that it wasn't like before and that the solution was real, and BAM, Lizard. Meanwhile, there'd be this whole storyline about escaped serial killer Cletus Cassidy, where Stacy and Spider-Man would find him and Cassidy would kill him, and for some reason or another Spider-Man couldn't save him, and then Gwen would hate Spider-Man (ACTUALLY LIKE IN THE COMICS, AS IT SHOULD BE!!! Sorry. Still pissed TASM didn't do this.). I really enjoyed the idea. Maybe it's just me though. Whew! Sorry I just vomited my **** onto you like that! I've just had that bottled up for awhile.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

LOL.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Is that Franco? Lol.

 

[Doc Ock]

Is that Franco? Lol.

I think so!

 

[henzINNIT]

This is what I've ALWAYS said. The material Webb took and hacked away at, could've been better handled by a crew who, I dunno, was actually GOOD. My God, TASM sucks on so many levels. I mean, at least that's how I view it, that Raimi could've done much better. I know what had in mind, when I constructed a story for a SM4, and it was ten times better than what they did in Webb's amateur hour. Although Stacy wasn't killed by the Lizard in my story, he was killed by Cletus Cassidy (NOT as Carnage though). I remember being really proud of myself when I decided that Connors had lost his arm in Desert Storm and had spent a long time trying to fix it, became obsessed with it, almost to the point of neglecting his wife, but when his wife became pregnant she told him that she wouldn't raise her child in a household where his father was neglecting him, so Connors stopped, but when he gets the piece of the symbiote (from Peter in SM3), and discovered it's ability to enhance the traits of it's host, he'd start to become obsessed again, there'd be some science (!) mumbo jumbo about him being able to extract the essence of the symbiote and enhance Lizard DNA with it, and he'd be about to test it when his wife, seeing the signs of obsession again, would start to take their son and leave, and Connors, desperate and frenzied would, instead of testing it, just immediately use it on himself to prove to his wife that it wasn't like before and that the solution was real, and BAM, Lizard. Meanwhile, there'd be this whole storyline about escaped serial killer Cletus Cassidy, where Stacy and Spider-Man would find him and Cassidy would kill him, and for some reason or another Spider-Man couldn't save him, and then Gwen would hate Spider-Man (ACTUALLY LIKE IN THE COMICS, AS IT SHOULD BE!!! Sorry. Still pissed TASM didn't do this.). I really enjoyed the idea. Maybe it's just me though. Whew! Sorry I just vomited my **** onto you like that! I've just had that bottled up for awhile.

Nice ideas mate.

A bit predictable, but I have always rooted for a Lizard/Kraven film. They just sit together nicely. Have Connors fumble his experiment, and Kraven comes in as a big game hunter with eyes on the Lizard and Spiderman. Peter is caught between protecting the city and his collegue, and Kraven's public image threatens Spidey's relationship with the city and the law.

I had this idea for MJ as well that I cannot shake. She's found moderate success on stage, with a production of her encounters with Spider-man. It would be a great way to open the film, a sort of re-cap of the previous stories. Done in a tongue in cheek way, poking fun at her numerous hostage situations... Raimi could have made this a lot of fun, and we could see some great comic style costumes in it too.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Speaking on 'That's as it should be'...does anyone else have a problem that Webb may want Green Goblin to kill Gwen Stacy, but he didn't bother to use Doc Ock in the movie that Captain Stacy died? I always felt that was odd.

 

[webhead731]

Yeah well considering how mediocre that movie was and some of the horrid decisions they made, things like that don't even surprise me. I wouldn't even be shocked if Electro kills Gwen.

 

[SpideyVille]

I know they'll most likely want Gwen/Emma Stone to be the main female lead in this trilogy, but I would love it if they had the Green Goblin kill her in ASM2 and have Peter deal with that, while also getting closer to MJ in the third.

Yeah well considering how mediocre that movie was and some of the horrid decisions they made, things like that don't even surprise me. I wouldn't even be shocked if Electro kills Gwen.

I see what you did there.

 

[Frodo]

I was fine with Sony rebooting the series after 3. While I didn't like the 3rd one, I do feel that it did pretty much tie up the loose ends from the first two and resolved the main story archs. It feels like an ending in that, Harry knows the truth about Norman, Peter knows what happened to his uncle and can let go , and MJ and Peter's love has gone through the trials and in the end, its inferred at least, that they'll start over. It felt like the story was over , even if I didnt like the creative choices they made.

I sort of view it in a similar vein of the Nolan trilogy in that , Raimi, like Nolan, completed and bookended the story threads and character archs that were put in place from the first film. While Spiderman 3 wasn't a sort of total ending that TDKR was , and could have spawned more sequels, I still think that it was a complete ending to the story that was told over the first two films.

 

[Anno_Domini]

S-M 3's ending of Peter and MJ didn't feel like closure to me, though.

 

[webs]

Gosh watched SM2 after all these years.. yeah.. blown away like the first time.. totally enjoyed Doc Ock and the fight scene on the train WOW.. Pity they wasted such material with SM3..!!

 

[henzINNIT]

I was fine with Sony rebooting the series after 3. While I didn't like the 3rd one, I do feel that it did pretty much tie up the loose ends from the first two and resolved the main story archs. It feels like an ending in that, Harry knows the truth about Norman, Peter knows what happened to his uncle and can let go , and MJ and Peter's love has gone through the trials and in the end, its inferred at least, that they'll start over. It felt like the story was over , even if I didnt like the creative choices they made.

I sort of view it in a similar vein of the Nolan trilogy in that , Raimi, like Nolan, completed and bookended the story threads and character archs that were put in place from the first film. While Spiderman 3 wasn't a sort of total ending that TDKR was , and could have spawned more sequels, I still think that it was a complete ending to the story that was told over the first two films.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. While I would have loved to see more from Raimi, SM3 wraps up enough for the series to feel completed.

I'm grateful that Raimi got the rare 3 film set. God knows how I mourn the potential third Singer X-Men film we could have had.

 

[SpideyVille]

I've said it here before, but after I saw SM3 for the first time, I felt like they knew it was the end for them. Just by the tone of the ending and how ambiguous it felt really made me feel like we probably weren't going to get a sequel for a long time, if not at all. Plus, I highly doubted that they would kill of Harry and Venom that quickly if they were indeed planning on doing the six films that Sony wanted.

That's why the news of a reboot really upset me, because I wasn't expecting SM4 until all the news came out that they were down to do it and would shooting 4 and 5 together. So just when I finally got excited, they cut it and quickly announced a reboot would be happening.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Why wouldn't they want to kill Venom off even if they were doing six films? They killed off GG and Doc Ock already, if you don't buy the rumor that Raimi wanted to bring Molina back. And also, they could have easily used the sample of the symbiote that Connors still had for either Carnage or being used when Connors becomes Lizard.

 

[SpideyVille]

It's not so much the fact that they killed him, but rather that they killed him off so quickly. I think Raimi himself talked about how they wanted to split the film up but they couldn't find a satisfactory midway point.

It really doesn't make any sense to build up this great rival, only to kill him off as soon as he gets some kind of power. I made the comparison to Two-Face, but at least Harvey's death meant something and had ramifications that had an effect in TDKR. But with Venom, it almost seems like they had him in there just so he could be the one to kill Harry, instead of Sandman since he was not really a bad guy.

 

[Victarion]

Harvey's arc in TDK makes me think Venom could've worked in Spider-Man 3 if Sam focused on Harry, Black-Suit Spider-Man, and Mary Jane. Sandman would've worked even as a generic thug; someone more vicious than Doctor Octopus who makes Mary Jane fear for Peter's safety. That'd let Sam put Mary Jane's decision at the end of SM2 to the test in SM3.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It's not so much the fact that they killed him, but rather that they killed him off so quickly. I think Raimi himself talked about how they wanted to split the film up but they couldn't find a satisfactory midway point.

It really doesn't make any sense to build up this great rival, only to kill him off as soon as he gets some kind of power. I made the comparison to Two-Face, but at least Harvey's death meant something and had ramifications that had an effect in TDKR. But with Venom, it almost seems like they had him in there just so he could be the one to kill Harry, instead of Sandman since he was not really a bad guy.

But the ironic thing is that the film didn't even feel like it was trying to build up this great rival at all, lol.

 

[SpideyVille]

But the ironic thing is that the film didn't even feel like it was trying to build up this great rival at all, lol.

I really liked SM3's version of Eddie.

I know a lot of Venom fanboys hated Topher, but I was never a Venom fanboy.

But I liked the direction they went with the character and had the whole Venom arc been given the proper time to breathe, I think Eddie and Venom could have made for a great villain. And they definitely planted a lot more seeds for why he would go after Peter/Spidey than they did with Sandman, who wasn't really a factor in the second half of the film other than the end.

Harvey's arc in TDK makes me think Venom could've worked in Spider-Man 3 if Sam focused on Harry, Black-Suit Spider-Man, and Mary Jane. Sandman would've worked even as a generic thug; someone more vicious than Doctor Octopus who makes Mary Jane fear for Peter's safety. That'd let Sam put Mary Jane's decision at the end of SM2 to the test in SM3.

Yeah, like I said above, there was definitely potential for Venom, moreso than I think there ever was for Sandman, where the only thing that worked for him was his look. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gwen, but the way they used her to be Eddie's love interest and part of the reason why he hated Peter was a nice way to include her. But I think if you take out all of the Harry and Sandman stuff, there was definitely something good left there with Venom. He, along with so many other things in that movie, just wasn't handled properly.

 

[AF3619]

Gosh watched SM2 after all these years.. yeah.. blown away like the first time.. totally enjoyed Doc Ock and the fight scene on the train WOW.. Pity they wasted such material with SM3..!!

 

[The Joker]

Gosh watched SM2 after all these years.. yeah.. blown away like the first time.. totally enjoyed Doc Ock and the fight scene on the train WOW.. Pity they wasted such material with SM3..!!

Spider-Man 2 is the jewel in the Spider-Man movies' crown.

 

[Venom75]

I still can't get into this new series. I'm trying,but it's just not there. I guess having Electro as a villain doesn't help. I've never been a big fan.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yah....lol.

I'm just kinda in the "I want to see the iconic Gwen Stacy death and then give me a reboot" kind of phase with Webb's films.

 

[Venom75]

I was looking forward to that too,and seeing the Green Goblin and then maybe later a better version of Venom.

By the way,does anyone have a large image of that Emma Rose/Mary Jane billboard or advertisment from Spider-man 2? I haven't found it yet.

 

[SpideyVille]

I think I said this a while ago, but it seems like Gwen will die in the third film, but I would've much rather preferred it to happen in ASM2, that way they could build on the
MJ relationship and him mourning Gwen in the third film.