The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 8

[Anno_Domini]

^ You make a point about there not being a reboot if Venom was never pushed into Spider-Man 3. The hand around Raimi's throat during S-M 3 was Arad and Sony and that squeeze was tightened with Spider-Man 4, so imagine if Raimi had enough freedom to make the threequel he had wanted...the third CBM curse could've been broken in 2007 and we would have probably seen a fourth installment in 2011.

 

[Spidey_62]

Just found this tribute to the Raimi trilogy on YT. I thought it was well-done myself. It's done in a similar manner as the Epic TDK Retrospective video, montage style using various pieces of the scores.

[YT]aP_a90UvUGI[/YT]

Man, this trilogy brings back memories. I haven't watched any of the Raimi movies in a long time. Maybe it's time to revisit.

Thanks for sharing this, fantastic video! Lots of memories.

 

[BatLobster]

^ You make a point about there not being a reboot if Venom was never pushed into Spider-Man 3. The hand around Raimi's throat during S-M 3 was Arad and Sony and that squeeze was tightened with Spider-Man 4, so imagine if Raimi had enough freedom to make the threequel he had wanted...the third CBM curse could've been broken in 2007 and we would have probably seen a fourth installment in 2011.

Yeah, I think if the studio left Raimi alone to make the film, things would have played out a lot differently and Spider-Man 4 probably would have come to fruition. I suspect his relationship with the studio was becoming a bit strained after all the meddling with SM3. If I recall, he was adamant about there being just one villain for Spider-Man 4...but most likely the studio meddling started again leading to "creative differences".

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

I wish Sandman was a little less sympathetic because imo, not only were the effects top-notch, but Thomas Haden Church looked identical to the comic book version.

Except for that weird haircut, of course.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I might be the only one, but I thought Thomas Haden Church was awful in the role... a flat, monotonous, grunting brute who garnered no sympathy or excitement from me. Church himself looked completely bored.

It may have been the script or the character in general... but it was all very boring. Minus of course, his beautiful birth scene

 

[Anno_Domini]

I really like THC, but I'd have to agree. It could have easily been Church just wasn't too interested in the story he had as Marko.

 

[SpideyVille]

Same here. Look-wise, he was fantastic, but acting-wise, he was no where near as animated as Dafoe, Molina, or even Topher. But then again, the character was written as a complete dud to begin with.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I don't blame Church entirely... but on the whole, Sandman was the worst villian in the trilogy.

And while Venom was under and misused, he was still exciting in a visceral sort of way.

 

[The Joker]

I might be the only one, but I thought Thomas Haden Church was awful in the role... a flat, monotonous, grunting brute who garnered no sympathy or excitement from me. Church himself looked completely bored.

It may have been the script or the character in general... but it was all very boring. Minus of course, his beautiful birth scene

I agree. It didn't help that he had very little dialogue, and half the time he was a CGI sand storm or sand monster.

 

[henzINNIT]

This is what I always think of in regards to SM3 ever getting a extended/directors cut, I think there is a chance. Like with the Donner Cut of Superman II happening many many years after the films original release.

Superman II had a very dramatic production, and a clear point where the director was seperated from his work. Donner was motivated to fix that. SM3, despite the story pressure, seemed to come together pretty close to Raimi's intention. I'm not sure there's anywhere near as much passion behind fixing this as there was for the supes sequel. God would I love to see it though.

Disagree with both of these, lol. I feel TDKR had definitely broken the threequel curse for CBMs as well as Dredd not being forgettable. I still need to pick up Dredd for Blu-ray though. Gotta wait until I have some extra money to do such.

There was a lot to love in TDKR, but so much cringing stupidity also. I feel that Nolan stumbled on a lot of classic threequel hurdles, like multiple underveloped villains, and an overcomplicated plot so focused on scope that it gets lost in the details. It actually reminds me quite a bit of SM3, which I know is a big insult to you haha

 

[Anno_Domini]

Not an insult at all as I don't see it as something that can be compared to Spider-Man 3 whatsoever, lol. You mention multiple underdeveloped villains, but I see none, only hardly used villain in Talia al Ghul, but she was perfectly developed through Bane's background, through Ra's al Ghul's story and then through Talia's own speech. She was just underused.

And Bane? He became one of my favorite villains simply because I enjoyed his storyline.

I can agree with Nolan stumbling somewhat with the classic threequel hurdles, but overall he did a splendid job with what he could and while the scope was focused a bit more than on the plot, the plot is understandable even if more complicated than TDK's.

 

[Doc Ock]

The crap that is Smallville is still going on in comic form now? Lol.

Yes the amazing show that is Smallville is still going on in comic form.

You know, when I think about it...Spider-Man 3 was destined to be a lot different from the first two movies no matter what. The first two movies each focused on one villain...it's a hell of a jump to go from one to three. I mean, even if it had turned out good, I think it would have still felt a lot different than the first two because of that.

The thing that bugs me is Venom just didn't belong in the Raimi-verse. If Sony had just let him make the film he wanted to make, we could have had a nice "Silver Age" trilogy. I mean, I get why Sony and Arad pushed him into it...the franchise was huge and Venom is one of Spidey's most popular villains. But the moment Arad stuck his head into it, it was doomed to be a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. I can't imagine what a nightmare writing that screenplay must have been, with characters popping in and out through each draft.

Imagine how much more excitement there'd be towards the ASM franchise if Venom hadn't been done yet and they were able to introduce Brock earlier on to give the symbiote saga some room to breath. Then again, if it weren't for Venom who knows if a reboot would've happened?

Venom definitely didn't really fit into the world of Raimi's Spider-Man. He would definitely be better used for a spinoff the the ASM franchise were I think would of been a much better fir for the character. Arad needs to go away IMO. Go ruin a franchise/video game somewhere else.

^ You make a point about there not being a reboot if Venom was never pushed into Spider-Man 3. The hand around Raimi's throat during S-M 3 was Arad and Sony and that squeeze was tightened with Spider-Man 4, so imagine if Raimi had enough freedom to make the threequel he had wanted...the third CBM curse could've been broken in 2007 and we would have probably seen a fourth installment in 2011.

Maybe the curse isn't broken just yet. Or maybe it was already broken in 2007. But yeah that stinker Arad!!! I was so excited for Spidey 4...

I might be the only one, but I thought Thomas Haden Church was awful in the role... a flat, monotonous, grunting brute who garnered no sympathy or excitement from me. Church himself looked completely bored.

I liked Church in the role moreso than Grace as Eddie. But yes kinda boring and weaker than the previous villains but I loved the story about his daughter and think the tie to Uncle Ben isn't that bad, not the best thing but definitely not awful.

Superman II had a very dramatic production, and a clear point where the director was seperated from his work. Donner was motivated to fix that. SM3, despite the story pressure, seemed to come together pretty close to Raimi's intention. I'm not sure there's anywhere near as much passion behind fixing this as there was for the supes sequel. God would I love to see it though.

True Superman II was a worse circumstance, but some directors like to return to their work later on. Like with Blade Runner and others. I dunno I'm going to stay optimistic. But yeah I don't think Raimi would have a interest in that, for the moment.

There was a lot to love in TDKR, but so much cringing stupidity also. I feel that Nolan stumbled on a lot of classic threequel hurdles, like multiple underveloped villains, and an overcomplicated plot so focused on scope that it gets lost in the details. It actually reminds me quite a bit of SM3, which I know is a big insult to you haha

I agree, TDKR reminds me quite a bit of SM3 as well. Thank goodness I'm not the only one who thinks that!

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Yes the amazing show that is Smallville is still going on in comic form.



Venom definitely didn't really fit into the world of Raimi's Spider-Man. He would definitely be better used for a spinoff the the ASM franchise were I think would of been a much better fit for the character. Arad needs to go away IMO. Go ruin a franchise/video game somewhere else.

Ehh, I gotta disagree with the Venom part. I think that the only things that didn't fit Venom (Character-wise) was Eddie Brock himself, the Venom voice, and his build. I think that with more development he could have been much better.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yes the amazing show that is Smallville is still going on in comic form.

What's your definition of amazing?

I watched the show during the high school years, but then it just became a mess of its own self and a bore once Jonathan Kent died in season five....just a melodramatic series focusing more on the romance on what not than actual Superman mythology while even forgetting about continuity as well. I can only imagine how they just continue to make up new **** for the comic continuation.

And then lo and behold...what I saw in the series finale on YT...Superman makes his biggest show with just pushing a planet and not battling it out with Darkseid. Oh yay

Maybe the curse isn't broken just yet. Or maybe it was already broken in 2007. But yeah that stinker Arad!!! I was so excited for Spidey 4...

Oh you...

Spoiler

 

[Venom75]

I thought that Venom would've been perfect for Raimi. A character that looks like he came out of a horror film being directed by the guy who gave us Evil Dead,Evil Dead 2 and Drag me to hell? It looked like a slam dunk. If you're doing a film involving Venom and the symbiote then it should have a bit of a horror feel to it,but...the ball was dropped,as we all know.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I wish Sandman was a little less sympathetic because imo, not only were the effects top-notch, but Thomas Haden Church looked identical to the comic book version.

Except for that weird haircut, of course.

THC was the perfect choice IMO. Such wasted talent.

I might be the only one, but I thought Thomas Haden Church was awful in the role... a flat, monotonous, grunting brute who garnered no sympathy or excitement from me. Church himself looked completely bored.

It may have been the script or the character in general... but it was all very boring. Minus of course, his beautiful birth scene

THC did the best he could with what he was given. At least that's how I see it.

I thought that Venom would've been perfect for Raimi. A character that looks like he came out of a horror film being directed by the guy who gave us Evil Dead,Evil Dead 2 and Drag me to hell? It looked like a slam dunk. If you're doing a film involving Venom and the symbiote then it should have a bit of a horror feel to it,but...the ball was dropped,as we all know.

Keep in mind that Raimi has always made his horror films campy and somewhat cheesy... so I never expected to get a good horror feel from him with Spider-Man 3. Just didn't expect to get Emo Peter dancing down the street.

^ You make a point about there not being a reboot if Venom was never pushed into Spider-Man 3. The hand around Raimi's throat during S-M 3 was Arad and Sony and that squeeze was tightened with Spider-Man 4, so imagine if Raimi had enough freedom to make the threequel he had wanted...the third CBM curse could've been broken in 2007 and we would have probably seen a fourth installment in 2011.

Even if they gave him a hard time with SM3, we would have had SM4 if they didn't do the same with the development of that film.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I thought that Venom would've been perfect for Raimi. A character that looks like he came out of a horror film being directed by the guy who gave us Evil Dead,Evil Dead 2 and Drag me to hell? It looked like a slam dunk. If you're doing a film involving Venom and the symbiote then it should have a bit of a horror feel to it,but...the ball was dropped,as we all know.

You're just looking at the look of the villain and what it can do with bringing up the stuff like the Evil Dead films, BUT....the story of Venom, the story of the symbiote or Eddie Brock...it just wasn't Raimi's thing.

 

[BatLobster]

I thought that Venom would've been perfect for Raimi. A character that looks like he came out of a horror film being directed by the guy who gave us Evil Dead,Evil Dead 2 and Drag me to hell? It looked like a slam dunk. If you're doing a film involving Venom and the symbiote then it should have a bit of a horror feel to it,but...the ball was dropped,as we all know.

That's actually kind of true. I think we saw flashes of that in the movie, there just wasn't nearly enough of it to make him a memorable "movie monster". Also, I think he treated the symbiote very much like a B movie sci-fi thing, like "The Blob". So that was kind of Raimi-esque too. The problem was there was just way too much of Topher's face after he became Venom. And honestly, the merging of the CG body with the prosthetics on his face didn't even look convincing. It looked like there was plastic attached to his head, not a slimy substance.

You're just looking at the look of the villain and what it can do with bringing up the stuff like the Evil Dead films, BUT....the story of Venom, the story of the symbiote or Eddie Brock...it just wasn't Raimi's thing.

Yeah, and that's the thing...I feel like Raimi had to put his own stamp on the whole symbiote saga (making it a lot campier) in order to get into it, and that was just not what the fans wanted at all.

And let's be honest, the idea of a mysterious alien goo that attaches itself to Peter, giving him a cool alternate Spidey outfit probably does seem kind of random if it's not something you grew up on. Raimi probably saw it as somewhat goofy, and that's why he interpreted it that way.

 

[Venom75]

Honestly,I really do love the fact that we're still debating these films so many years after they've been released. Either we're that big of fans for the trilogy,or that obsessed. lol For me,maybe it's both.

 

[BatLobster]

I was definitely a massive fan of these movies when they were being released. I've cooled down on them a bit, but I certainly think they are worth discussing and have an important place in the history of the genre. Sure, it's more fashionable to kind of dump on them now but it's interesting to revisit them and see where they hold up, where they don't, etc.

I remember seeing Spider-Man 2 at a midnight showing and it was really quite a thrill. The audience was so into it. Brings me back to a simpler time I guess. Just seeing the image of Spidey webslinging through the city still felt like a really unique, eye-gasmic experience. Everyone was a little less jaded to the genre than they are now. At least that's how I remember it.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Honestly,I really do love the fact that we're still debating these films so many years after they've been released. Either we're that big of fans for the trilogy,or that obsessed. lol For me,maybe it's both.

Or we still hate Spider-Man 3 THAT much to still be specifically talking about about bad THAT film is. You don't see me talking about how bad Spider-Man 1 and 2 are...because I talk very highly of them since they're THAT good/great. But when S-M 3 is the topic, I will still talk about how craptastic it is, lol.

But, mentioning Spider-Man...I finally bought the first film again! Now I have Raimi's duology

Will be watching it tonight hopefully when I get back from the store.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

lol

 

[Picard Sisko]

I was definitely a massive fan of these movies when they were being released. I've cooled down on them a bit, but I certainly think they are worth discussing and have an important place in the history of the genre. Sure, it's more fashionable to kind of dump on them now but it's interesting to revisit them and see where they hold up, where they don't, etc.

I remember seeing Spider-Man 2 at a midnight showing and it was really quite a thrill. The audience was so into it. Brings me back to a simpler time I guess. Just seeing the image of Spidey webslinging through the city still felt like a really unique, eye-gasmic experience. Everyone was a little less jaded to the genre than they are now. At least that's how I remember it.

Simpler time because the MCU didn't exist yet?

 

[Anno_Domini]

So I watched the '02 film...the first time in about a year and a half...and man...still love it.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I wish I could go back 10 years when I saw it for the very first time.