The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 8

[BatLobster]

Simpler time because the MCU didn't exist yet?

Yeah, I suppose that's what I was getting at. The novelty of just seeing a single hero on screen was still fresh. Just the fact that Spider-Man was finally on the big screen was enough to get most people excited (very much like Batman 89). Now we're in such a fanboy dominant age where the fans expect to be catered to because the studios know that their word of mouth can have a real impact. It's not a bad thing, as it's led to a lot of great movies, but again...it was just a simpler time for the genre in 2002.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think its still great to see just Spider-Man alone on the big screen. Although I'd like to see him in the MCU, he is one of those characters that can do just fine all by himself. I think Captain America, Hulk, and Thor all NEED to be in the Avengers to really sell to audiences.

 

[henzINNIT]

True Superman II was a worse circumstance, but some directors like to return to their work later on. Like with Blade Runner and others. I dunno I'm going to stay optimistic. But yeah I don't think Raimi would have a interest in that, for the moment.

Yeah I guess in time he might want to revisit it. We all know there's a lot of material to play with if he chose to do so, and I believe there's a better film in there somewhere.

Not an insult at all as I don't see it as something that can be compared to Spider-Man 3 whatsoever, lol. You mention multiple underdeveloped villains, but I see none, only hardly used villain in Talia al Ghul, but she was perfectly developed through Bane's background, through Ra's al Ghul's story and then through Talia's own speech. She was just underused.

And Bane? He became one of my favorite villains simply because I enjoyed his storyline.

I can agree with Nolan stumbling somewhat with the classic threequel hurdles, but overall he did a splendid job with what he could and while the scope was focused a bit more than on the plot, the plot is understandable even if more complicated than TDK's.

Talia got nothing but "I hated my dad but then he died so I'm going to finish his work" and Bane was even more short changed when his motivation was revealed as "I do what Talia wants". I loved Bane but he was far more interesting before he was downgraded to henchman. Talia's reveal came so late and achieved so little, I wish Nolan just stuck to one villain.

Confused Matthew recently dug into the problems with Rises and was pretty on point. I still enjoy the film however I think it's the weakest of the set by a wide margin.

 

[SpideyVille]

I wouldn't compared TDKR to SM3, but I wouldn't call it the best Batman movie either. I would have at first, but now that time has passed, I've realized that the last 5 minutes are awesome and the ending is better than most recent trilogy endings that I've seen in both movies and video games, but the film as a whole wasn't as strong as the previous two.

But I am a bit hesitant to say that it broke the curse.

 

[Picard Sisko]

It's better than most threequels out there, but I don't know... I think its highly overrated.

 

[The Joker]

I think more people will wake up to TDKR being the weakest one as time goes on. I see it happening more and more every day. It's no Spider-Man 3. That movie was just a mess with a handful of good scenes in it.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Talia got nothing but "I hated my dad but then he died so I'm going to finish his work" and Bane was even more short changed when his motivation was revealed as "I do what Talia wants". I loved Bane but he was far more interesting before he was downgraded to henchman. Talia's reveal came so late and achieved so little, I wish Nolan just stuck to one villain.

Talia al Ghul's hatred for her father diminished because of her father having died, and it's not a completely out there notion. I even know someone who hated his father for years but came running to him when he was dying of cancer. Not a big stretch to believe Talia would want to finish what Ra's started and couldn't finish because of his death, so I still don't get complaints for that.

And Bane? He wasn't doing everything just for Talia. He went along for the ride to destroy Gotham because of his love for Talia, yes, but he saw Batman as this figure that had to be taken down and Bane took the chance at taking this figure down. And even when he heard Talia's last bit of order to him, he refused as he wanted Batman all to himself still.

Confused Matthew recently dug into the problems with Rises and was pretty on point. I still enjoy the film however I think it's the weakest of the set by a wide margin.

Sorry for my ignorance, but who?

I wouldn't compared TDKR to SM3, but I wouldn't call it the best Batman movie either. I would have at first, but now that time has passed, I've realized that the last 5 minutes are awesome and the ending is better than most recent trilogy endings that I've seen in both movies and video games, but the film as a whole wasn't as strong as the previous two.

But I am a bit hesitant to say that it broke the curse.

Over time I found that way of thinking with the past two films of BB and TDK not being as strong as I once viewed them the first time, but ever since getting the final act of the trilogy, I've loved each film more and more. Might be silly and might be something a fanboy would only say, but I am very appreciative of this amazing trilogy and a CBM series that finally feels complete. And to boot, I do believe the curse has definitely been broken, but mentioning the curse is sadly something I don't like to really bring up because it really isn't that broken when another 3rd CBM could very well be awful again.

And after seeing TDKR on AFI's Top Ten list...I really, really, really wish AFI would have noticed Batman Begins more. It would've been awesome for AFI to acknowledge the entire trilogy.

It's better than most threequels out there, but I don't know... I think its highly overrated.

Should we really talk about CBMs that seem highly overrated?

I think more people will wake up to TDKR being the weakest one as time goes on. I see it happening more and more every day. It's no Spider-Man 3. That movie was just a mess with a handful of good scenes in it.

I feel the very opposite. Over time I believe more and more will appreciate TDKR more and more and I'm starting to see that notion in the TDKR boards now as I hear less and less complaints. And I am very happy over that.

 

[The Joker]

I feel the very opposite. Over time I believe more and more will appreciate TDKR more and more and I'm starting to see that notion in the TDKR boards now as I hear less and less complaints. And I am very happy over that.

No Anno, that's just less and less people posting there now. The forum has been dwindling in traffic since the DVD came out. Then with no Oscar nominations, only the die hard faithfuls post there on any kind of regular basis. It's just the same handful of regulars. I could probably list them all here and now.

 

[Anno_Domini]

No Anno, that's just less and less people posting there now. The forum has been dwindling in traffic since the DVD came out. Then with no Oscar nominations, only the die hard faithfuls post there on any kind of regular basis. It's just the same handful of regulars. I could probably list them all here and now.

Lol, if you say so.

I still disagree, but you can think what you want and I'll think what I want.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I LOVE TDKR... but it's still the worst of the trilogy.

Sure it may have more exciting beats than Batman Begins and it may perhaps feature my favourite performance of Bale as Batman but it's still a very messy (if rightfully ambitious) movie.

And by worst I mean ''Nolan-worst'', which is still pretty much better than any other director on a good day. And runs circles around other third comic book movies.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I LOVE TDKR... but it's still the worst of the trilogy.

Sure it may have more exciting beats than Batman Begins and it may perhaps feature my favourite performance of Bale as Batman but it's still a very messy (if rightfully ambitious) movie.

And by worst I mean ''Nolan-worst'', which is still pretty much better than any other director on a good day. And runs circles around other third comic book movies.

But true. I find Insomnia to be Nolan's worst, but I agree that by saying it's Nolan's worst is still saying it's better than any other director on a good day.

 

[SpideyVille]

Over time I found that way of thinking with the past two films of BB and TDK not being as strong as I once viewed them the first time, but ever since getting the final act of the trilogy, I've loved each film more and more. Might be silly and might be something a fanboy would only say, but I am very appreciative of this amazing trilogy and a CBM series that finally feels complete. And to boot, I do believe the curse has definitely been broken, but mentioning the curse is sadly something I don't like to really bring up because it really isn't that broken when another 3rd CBM could very well be awful again.

And after seeing TDKR on AFI's Top Ten list...I really, really, really wish AFI would have noticed Batman Begins more. It would've been awesome for AFI to acknowledge the entire trilogy.

I'll say this, Nolan's trilogy is definitely the best, if not one of the best, trilogies out there, that I can think of in recent years. I also don't think there should be a reboot for a few years just out of respect for how great the films were and how much they did at bringing in a new fanbase.

But I think two things that hurt TDKR was Ledger's passing, since that not only squashed any plans for him in a sequel, but also left a Joker-sized hole because his character and performance stood out even more. The other, which is usually the case and probably can't be used as much of an excuse, is the hype leading up to the movie. Much like SM3, TDKR was hyped up to be the greatest movie ever and was going to be "epic," and yet while it was still engaging and entertaining, I don't feel like it lived up to those expectations as a whole. As a trilogy, it was a satisfying conclusion. But the more you look at it individually, the more you start to see some of the holes that have been mentioned in the months since.

No Anno, that's just less and less people posting there now. The forum has been dwindling in traffic since the DVD came out. Then with no Oscar nominations, only the die hard faithfuls post there on any kind of regular basis. It's just the same handful of regulars. I could probably list them all here and now.

I think the same can be said about us here.

 

[The Joker]

I think the same can be said about us here.

Yeah, but these movies are years old. TDKR is only out 6 months.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I'll say this, Nolan's trilogy is definitely the best, if not one of the best, trilogies out there, that I can think of in recent years. I also don't think there should be a reboot for a few years just out of respect for how great the films were and how much they did at bringing in a new fanbase.

Oh, that seems to be what's going to happen anyways as the reboot may not happen until 2017 or later.

And not to sound like some Nolanite or what have you, but waiting is for the best to get all the chickens in a row to actually make a film that would be in the same scale as Nolan's Batman. How distasteful would it be to any Batman fan if we get a reboot that feels like it should be a sequel to Batman Forever, or worse, Batman & Robin.

But I think two things that hurt TDKR was Ledger's passing, since that not only squashed any plans for him in a sequel, but also left a Joker-sized hole because his character and performance stood out even more.

While I can't say it hurt TDKR, I will say that it soured Nolan's probable original plans. Saying a death hurt a film feels like it's in bad taste to say such, but the death definitely seems like it hurt any original ideas for TDK's sequel.

The other, which is usually the case and probably can't be used as much of an excuse, is the hype leading up to the movie. Much like SM3, TDKR was hyped up to be the greatest movie ever and was going to be "epic," and yet while it was still engaging and entertaining, I don't feel like it lived up to those expectations as a whole. As a trilogy, it was a satisfying conclusion. But the more you look at it individually, the more you start to see some of the holes that have been mentioned in the months since.

The only expectations I don't think it met was making as much money as it could have made, but film-wise, I found it to be just what I wanted as a conclusion because it had a tone to fit as an ending and that's all I really wanted to see, something that feels like an ending as much as I wanted with Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings; mind you, I never read the books, so I didn't know that there were great endings to the series anyways, lol.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yeah, but these movies are years old. TDKR is only out 6 months.

Is mentioning how many time has passed really justifiable? There aren't that many going over the TAS-M boards as of late, either. And I can't say anything about Avengers as I only rarely show up there.

 

[The Joker]

Is mentioning how many time has passed really justifiable?

Yes. Time is always a factor when it comes to interest in movies on forums. A movie forum in it's first year after release is going to have a lot more activity than it would 5 years later.

There aren't that many going over the TAS-M boards as of late, either.

Good analogy. TASM was not as favorably received with fans as Raimi's first two movies were.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yes. Time is always a factor when it comes to interest in movies on forums. A movie forum in it's first year after release is going to have a lot more activity than it would 5 years later.

I don't think I can agree with this that much. Even if a core group of people really like a film, the film has passed and there won't be a sequel while directors move on to other projects as even Nolan moved on to being a producer of Man of Steel which I think garnered a lot of the TDKR posters.

Good analogy. TASM was not as favorably received with fans as Raimi's first two movies were.

Of course, but people still put TAS-M over the '02 film, even you, as much as people put TDKR over BB or even TDKR, but still...not a whole lot of people are showing on to threads of films that's already been released.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think I can agree with this that much. Even if a core group of people really like a film, the film has passed and there won't be a sequel while directors move on to other projects as even Nolan moved on to being a producer of Man of Steel which I think garnered a lot of the TDKR posters.

That has nothing to do with it. If a movie is really well liked, sequel or no sequel, it will still be buzzing with discussion, especially a mere few months after it's release. The general disappointment of TDKR for many has dwindled it's numbers.

Of course, but people still put TAS-M over the '02 film

There's people who still put Spider-Man 1 and 3 over Spider-Man 2, too; http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=311278

That doesn't change the fact that Spider-Man 2 is generally considered the best,, just like it doesn't change the fact that Raimi's first two movies are more favorably received than TASM.

even you, as much as people put TDKR over BB or even TDKR, but still...not a whole lot of people are showing on to threads of films that's already been released.

I don't know what you're basing that on. Name one movie that has it's own forum here that was released in the last 6 months, that has as little activity as TDKR's, aside from TASM.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I get that Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight are generally considered the best of their respective franchises, but again with TAS-M...it's considered at least to some to be better than Spider-Man but you don't see many posters showing up as with the TDKR boards either and I think it's just a changing of the times as many posters don't show up anymore. I'm on another forum to talk about Supernatural and there are very few posters that show up as well just because people just don't show up. I don't consider it to be a popular thing or because it's lost interest either. A few diehard fans will show up to TAS-M boards, this thread specifically, the TDKR one and even TDK boards, but I still don't see it equating to the value of the product itself.

And as for another part of the forums that have a low amount of viewers right now...I just viewed a couple Avenger threads and there were only eleven guests and only one member(me) at that time.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I don't think the boards is enough to determine the quality of a film or franchise. Things die down after a certain point.

 

[The Joker]

I get that Spider-Man 2 and The Dark Knight are generally considered the best of their respective franchises, but again with TAS-M...it's considered at least to some to be better than Spider-Man but you don't see many posters showing up as with the TDKR boards either and I think it's just a changing of the times as many posters don't show up anymore.

I've been on here since 2003. Time have not changed. The servers still crash when a new trailer to a popular franchise is due out. Fans still turn on an old franchise when a new rebooted one comes out. Just watch what happens with Superman when MOS comes out, assuming MOS is good.

Fans posting habits don't change either. The same thing happened with Spider-Man 3's forum. It died off a few months after it came out, even when we thought Raimi was coming back for a Spider-Man 4.

Things never change here. It's a cycle of events. You'll see that for yourself the more years you're here.

And as for another part of the forums that have a low amount of viewers right now...I just viewed a couple Avenger thread and there were only eleven guests and only one member(me) at that time.

I didn't mean exactly at this very moment in time lol.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I don't think the boards is enough to determine the quality of a film or franchise. Things die down after a certain point.

We agree on something

I've been on here since 2003. Time have not changed. The servers still crash when a new trailer to a popular franchise is due out. Fans still turn on an old franchise when a new rebooted one comes out. Just watch what happens with Superman when MOS comes out, assuming MOS is good.

Fans posting habits don't change either. The same thing happened with Spider-Man 3's forum. It died off a few months after it came out, even when we thought Raimi was coming back for a Spider-Man 4.

None of this really compares to a film being over and the series as well, though.

But, even with the talk of Justice League, people still talk about that on the TDKR sometimes as well.

Things never change here. It's a cycle of events. You'll see that for yourself the more years you're here.

I'm sure there is a cycle when something new pops up, but seeing the TDKR boards slow down shows me nothing tbh.

I didn't mean exactly at this very moment in time lol.

Just letting ya know though, haha.

 

[The Joker]

I don't think the boards is enough to determine the quality of a film or franchise. Things die down after a certain point.

Yes; a year or more.

 

[BlueLightning]

I love this SO MUCH:

[YT]4R3ywUSqrn8[/YT]

In one of my English classes I sang that for a final project, it was so fun! I think Spider-Man 2 is the movie I have watched the most of all superhero movies. Perhaps I need to re-watch the first and the third too, just for old times sake.

 

[The Joker]

None of this really compares to a film being over and the series as well, though.

That's because you wrongly associate the lack of activity to the series being over. Spider-Man 3, at the time, was not thought of as the end of the series. But it went through what TDKR is now; dwindling forum activity months after it's release.

But, even with the talk of Justice League, people still talk about that on the TDKR sometimes as well.

Yes, but that's not exactly talk about TDKR, but rather if Blake will be Batman in it whatever

I'm sure there is a cycle when something new pops up, but seeing the TDKR boards slow down shows me nothing tbh.

Ah well. If you don't see it, then you don't see it. I can only repeat facts so many times.

I love this SO MUCH:

[YT]4R3ywUSqrn8[/YT]

In one of my English classes I sang that for a final project, it was so fun! I think Spider-Man 2 is the movie I have watched the most of all superhero movies. Perhaps I need to re-watch the first and the third too, just for old times sake.

That's how you show a lovable, goofy nerdy Peter Parker. I remember people would say how could we hate the dance scenes in SM-3 when we loved this scene.

They're apples and oranges.