The Official Tom Welling for Superman Campaign Thread!!!

[The Major]

3. A peeping tom is someone who watches someone get undressed and naked. Superman did no such thing.

Ironically Clark did this to Lana in Smallvile once he got his X-ray vision.

 

[Showtime]

...and in the comics over and over again for decades...

 

[smsvmos]

Ironically Clark did this to Lana in Smallvile once he got his X-ray vision.

Yea but under Red-K and he also did it to Chloe

 

[The Major]

And what is the problem of creating a reference to Smallville ? I dont have a problem.

Because it creates a continuity nightmare for viewers.

All characters who appeared in Smallville will have to follow tat continuity or risk seriously confusing the audience. Any changes with events, new actors replacing their Smallville counterparts and their histories will all have to follow Smallville canon or risk explaining why they act the way they do for it to make sense. That would take considerable amount of time to cover. A movie only has so many minutes before its over. They shouldn't need to waste it on continuity glitches when they could just ignore Smallville altogether without having to explain everything.

I would have a problem with creating reference to Superman Returns and all the baggage it carries (The Son of Superman ).

It's less baggage then Smallville brings with it.

The kid? He could be killed off. Perry's son could die or go off to another city because he broke up with Lois over Superman or wanted to work in another city for an assignment then he's never seen again.

Lex could use a plot device to erase memories of his criminal activities then he spends the next few years building LexCorp.

Smallville brings with it an entire mythos of its own the writers would need to match up with.

But to tell you the truth I think that Smallville fits better with JLA than SR does since in Smallville there are actually other Superheroes so the transition is better unlike in SR where he was the only hero of that earth and in his absence a lot of terrorism and world disasters happened and there was no one to help.

There's no reason heroes couldn't exist in SR/BB worlds, they just either haven't showed up or got the heroes attention yet.

It allows WB to work from scratch with these heroes. Some work, some don't. With Smallville continuity they'd have to take all of them. Same with the villains. You can't have a new version of Brainiac running around if Smallville exists. Lex's history would have to be fleshed out to match the movie, as well. Then there's Supergirl. They'd have to come up with a way to get her out of the story for her not to be in the Justice League. I'd take WW over her any day.

 

[The Major]

Yea but under Red-K and he also did it to Chloe

He X-rayed her before Red K was even on the programme.

That's much worse then him actually doing that under the Red K's influence.

 

[smsvmos]

Because it creates a continuity nightmare for viewers.

What do u think Superman Returns was to the general public? at the start of the movie the only thing that makes reference to the old movies is just a bit of text When u ask Bryan Singer he said "Well is a vague continuity with the old movies" and then they ask "then how do u explain?" and he said "Well there are a series of comics coming out that explains what happend" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Like the general public is going to buy the a series of comics that came out weekly and have the time to read it NOw that is a nightmare

All characters who appeared in Smallville will have to follow tat continuity or risk seriously confusing the audience. Any changes with events, new actors replacing their Smallville counterparts and their histories will all have to follow Smallville canon or risk explaining why they act the way they do for it to make sense. That would take considerable amount of time to cover. A movie only has so many minutes before its over. They shouldn't need to waste it on continuity glitches when they could just ignore Smallville altogether without having to explain everything.

like I said before what I want is a reboot like The Incredible Hulk did. And the only actors that have to come to the new movie are Lois (Erica) Michael (Lex) and Aaron (Jimmy)

It's less baggage then Smallville brings with it.

The kid? He could be killed off. Perry's son could die or go off to another city because he broke up with Lois over Superman or wanted to work in another city just and he's never seen again.

Lex could use a plot device to erase memories of his criminal activities then he spends the next few years building LexCorp.

What the hell???? Yea they can go ahead and do that and finish destroying whats little left of the franchise.

Smallville brings with it an entire mythos of its own the writers would need to match up with.

I dont have a problem with the mythos of Smallville .

There's no reason heroes couldn't exist in SR/BB worlds, they just either haven't showed up or got the heroes attention yet.

It allows WB to work from scratch with these heroes. Some work, some don't. With Smallville continuity they'd have to take all of them. Same with the villains. You can't have a new version of Brainiac running around if Smallville exists. Lex's history would have to be fleshed out. There's Supergirl, too. They'd have to come up with a way to get her out of the story for her not to be in the Justice League.

Brainiac can morph as seen in Smallville so it does not have to be James Marsters that plays Brainiac, The Martian is also a shape shifter so the guy that plays him does not need to be him, cyborg is not part of JLA, Aquaman can be recast if they want and the rest is history.

 

[smsvmos]

He X-rayed her before Red K was even on the programme.

That's much worse then him actually doing that under the Red K's influence.

What episode? Cause I don't remember and the other time he did that was when he had no control of the powers so that was not intentional

 

[hippie_hunter]

HaHaHa Yes he did He went to the Top of the DP building to chat with her and take her up for a flight and when he was done he tried to kiss her but she backed away

No they both almost kissed because they were still in love but Lois backed away because she was with another man. Superman understood. If he were trying to break them up he would have pressed on or told Richard that Jason was his son.

He didnt have to go to her house to see how she had move on. He could have seen that in the Daily Planet when he met Richard and the illegitimate son. And that was not the only time he went cause at the end he even went up to the boys room and tuckd him in (Now that I see it that alone is creepy). But remember that in that flight with Lois he let her know where she lived and that he knew that she lived there.

It was him checking on how she moved on with her life. Seeing her at work doesn't fully show how.

And at the end it was showing that he was taking responsibility over the fact that he fathered an illegitimate bastard child who isn't going to know that his father is Superman for quite some time.

How do u know? Smallville was never clearly shown in the comics and the life of Lois Lane was never documented before Superman came to Metropolis.

They've shown plenty of Smallville in the comics and enough of Superman's younger years to know that Lana was never involved with Lex in any fashion other than friendship. Lois never lived in Smallville. There is no Chloe. Jimmy is not Clark's age. And Lois never dated Green Arrow or had an interest in Aquaman. Until such things are portrayed in the comics, they didn't happen.

 

[smsvmos]

Hippie Hunter u where saying?

and

 

[hippie_hunter]

What do u think Superman Returns was to the general public? at the start of the movie the only thing that makes reference to the old movies is just a bit of text When u ask Bryan Singer he said "Well is a vague continuity with the old movies" and then they ask "then how do u explain?" and he said "Well there are a series of comics coming out that explains what happend" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Like the general public is going to buy the a series of comics that came out weekly and have the time to read it NOw that is a nightmare

You have a point there. My mother was often confused with Superman Returns because of the continuity baggage it brought.

like I said before what I want is a reboot like The Incredible Hulk did. And the only actors that have to come to the new movie are Lois (Erica) Michael (Lex) and Aaron (Jimmy)

No. No. No. Having those actors means that it isn't a reboot. It means that it is in the continuity of Smallville.

What the hell???? Yea they can go ahead and do that and finish destroying whats little left of the franchise.

I agree that some of those ideas mentioned are pretty bad. But it is plausable for Lex to build LexCorp in the sequel on account that he isn't a convicted felon anymore. He was let go on a technicality and the fact that there is no proof over what he's done in Superman the Movie and Superman II.

I dont have a problem with the mythos of Smallville.

That's the main problem with your argument IMO. There are people who do have a problem with the mythos of Smallville. That is why people don't want Tom Welling as Superman and don't want the movie set in the Smallville universe. Just like how there are people who don't like the mythos of Superman Returns.

In my opinion, the best route for the next Superman movie is either a sequel to Superman Returns because that universe is already established and from what is said about Man of Steel, it will have a different tone than Superman Returns, plus Singer has proven that he can improve himself on a sequel and from what Routh has said the criticisms are being taken into account. That or a complete and total reboot with no connections at all to Superman Returns or Smallville.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Hippie Hunter u where saying?

and

Oh come on now. Those campy ass comics barely have an impact on Superman's character now a days and continuity was a mess back then as well. Post-COIE and Post-IC Superman never had that kind of stuff.

 

[Webhead2006]

hopefully if singer does stay and wb goes with him for MOS they can fix some of the mistakes they did with SR. Personally it would be nice for a reboot film but yea its less likely that will happen we can hope but who knows. Yea they probably would end up going with singer again to try to make a buck off that property then going with a unknown set up.

 

[The Major]

What episode? Cause I don't remember and the other time he did that was when he had no control of the powers so that was not intentional

That sounds like that episode where he lost control of his powers in the first season.


In the scene Clark was in the school locker room's changing with his class mates and he just kept his X-ray vision on while staring at Lana as she was getting undressed in the girl's locker room. Clark was practically drooling watching her. It was intentional by that point.

 

[smsvmos]

Oh come on now. Those campy ass comics barely have an impact on Superman's character now a days and continuity was a mess back then as well. Post-COIE and Post-IC Superman never had that kind of stuff.

You and me both know that DC comics has change Superman canon so many times that they don't even know where they stand so...

You take Birthright and that had Lex meeting Clark at a young age and also the introduction of Lionel Luthor.

 

[smsvmos]

That sounds like that episode where he lost control of his powers in the first season.


In the scene Clark was in the school locker room's changing with his class mates and he just kept his X-ray vision on while staring at Lana as she was getting undressed in the girl's locker room. Clark was practically drooling watching her. It was intentional by that point.

That was not intentional and who wouldn't drool over it? He is a teenager not a saint Remember that in that scene he had just gotten the power and he was rope claiming with Pete and that where he got to see Pete with his muscle suit and then he fell off the rope and when he open his eyes he was staring at the girls looker room so that was not intentional cause he was out of control.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You and me both know that DC comics has change Superman canon so many times that they don't even know where they stand so...

Hellz yeah

You take Birthright and that had Lex meeting Clark at a young age and also the introduction of Lionel Luthor.

Birthright isn't in canon anymore but Countdown showed a bit of the origin of Lex Luthor that has him being the same age as Clark and being a part of Clark's group with Lana and Pete. Along with his father being Lionel.

Hence why I did say that Lana did have a friendship with Lex

 

[The Major]

What do u think Superman Returns was to the general public? at the start of the movie the only thing that makes reference to the old movies is just a bit of text When u ask Bryan Singer he said "Well is a vague continuity with the old movies" and then they ask "then how do u explain?" and he said "Well there are a series of comics coming out that explains what happend" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Like the general public is going to buy the a series of comics that came out weekly and have the time to read it NOw that is a nightmare

Singer only had to vageuly mention the events in 2 movies.

Any ties to Smallville will have to be work with 7 season of material.

Thats a huge difference.

like I said before what I want is a reboot like The Incredible Hulk did. And the only actors that have to come to the new movie are Lois (Erica) Michael (Lex) and Aaron (Jimmy)

You'd have to bring along the characters pasts from Smallville if they use any actors from the show.

What the hell???? Yea they can go ahead and do that and finish destroying whats little left of the franchise.

Chris isn't around to make Superman look like a dead beat dad.

Richard is sent elsewhere so he no longer stands in the way of Superman and Lois.

Luthor can now become a big threat with LexCorp instead of a fugitive with few resources.

That's revitalising the franchise not killing it.

I've just gotten rid of all the elements people didn't like from SR. Now the franchise can go in new directions without being tied down by SR.

I dont have a problem with the mythos of Smallville.

Most people in the world aren't watching the show.

They're going in blind. They don't know any of the characters histories in Smallville unless they are told about it. If they aren't going to mention the details of Smallville there's no point using the actors in it or taping into its continuity.

They won't know the character's pasts with Smallville. None of their pasts can be ignored since not only would it alienate Smallville fans but the characters must remain logically connected to it in some believable way or it ceases to work as a story.

Brainiac can morph as seen in Smallville so it does not have to be James Marsters that plays Brainiac,

Okay, that's good.

Now what about Brainaic's origins and stories on the show? You can't ignore that.

The Martian is also a shape shifter so the guy that plays him does not need to be him,

Not necessarily. Was his human identity John Jones? Because that look always stays the same.

He also has a past with Clark and has done stuff in Smallville.

Superman's interactions will have to continue from that since they've already met.

cyborg is not part of JLA,

He still exists.

Aquaman can be recast if they want and the rest is history.

Any recasting will confuse the Smallville viewers. They won't know he's the same Aquaman if he doesn't mention his adventures in Smallville or has the same actor.

There have been at least a dozen heroes and super-villains from all across the DCU which will be in the same situation from being in Smallville if they connect it.

Characters pasts and their actors will have to be addressed. Unlike J'onn or Brainiac they don't have the luxury of being shape-shifters to switch actors.

It's just not worth the hassle.

 

[smsvmos]

Here is the Clip

[YT]<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NfJv2nnbp84&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NfJv2nnbp84&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>[/YT]

 

[The Major]

I agree that some of those ideas mentioned are pretty bad.

I was just making some random randoms which could be possible directions they go in.

The screenwriters who write the movie could flesh them out or make new ones which would make more sense then what I thought up in a few seconds.

But it is plausable for Lex to build LexCorp in the sequel on account that he isn't a convicted felon anymore. He was let go on a technicality and the fact that there is no proof over what he's done in Superman the Movie and Superman II.

That would be cool with me.

smsvmos:

That's it!

 

[hippie_hunter]

Here is the Clip

I remember that scene. That did give me a chuckle when I saw it.

So does that make Clark from Smallville more of a peeping tom than Superman from Superman Returns

 

[The Major]

That was not intentional and who wouldn't drool over it? He is a teenager not a saint

He is still Clark Kent.

He may not be Superman yet but I would expect better of him. He's no ordinary teenager.

Remember that in that scene he had just gotten the power and he was rope claiming with Pete and that where he got to see Pete with his muscle suit and then he fell off the rope and when he open his eyes he was staring at the girls looker room so that was not intentional cause he was out of control.

The second he chose to keep looking at Lana undressing it became intentional. He didn't just look anywhere else the instant he saw her. We definitely see he kept staring once her clothes came off.

 

[smsvmos]

I remember that scene. That did give me a chuckle when I saw it.

So does that make Clark from Smallville more of a peeping tom than Superman from Superman Returns

Like I said he was out of control but I wont defend Smallville in the part where Clark also was kind of a voyeur when he used his telescope to pick on Lana in his Barn so there we have it Superman is a Voyeur in all interpretations but that particular moment was unintentional.

 

[smsvmos]

Guys This has become a war against Smallville and this is suppose to be The Official Tom Welling for Superman campaign Thread!!!!! so why don't we keep on topic? I don't mind chatting about the flaws of both interpretations but if you want we can make another thread in either the Smallville forum or the Superman Return Forum or even in the Superman Forum where it would be more intermediate point between the two.

 

[AgentPat]

Oh come on now. Those campy ass comics barely have an impact on Superman's character now a days and continuity was a mess back then as well. Post-COIE and Post-IC Superman never had that kind of stuff.

You said it didn't happen in the comics. It in fact, did. Lois dated just about everybody. There's a well known comic cover with the JL members standing in line to date her. If pressed, I can locate it for you, but if you're going to dismiss it as something pre-crisis and not of any merit in current continuity, I won't bother. The same argument could be made for pre-crisis Donner, but that didn't stop Singer.

Clark x-rayed the women's locker room in the 1st season SV episode, X-Ray. He had no clue what was happening to his vision, and he had just fallen from a gym rope. He didn't know what turned the effect on (no pun intended) and he didn't know how to turn it off. It's not like he intentionally activated his x-ray vision and snooped Lana in a closed elevator as she traversed floors, or spied on her, a fiancé and son as they went about their evening business in the privacy of their own home. This is a ridiculously dumb comparison and makes for a poor argument, IMO.

The other poor argument (IMHO) is the analogy of Adam West being cast in Batman Begins (and the related list.) That's just silly. Sorry. Welling has not played the costumed character yet, and his show is current. It's not like he played Superman in a film or show from the past and fans want to see him re-cast. In point of fact, SV is the "new" continuity. It's a continuity where Lex Luthor is a corporate mogul, driven by money and power, and the delusion of being a man of the people, even if he has to kill to achieve his goals. SR is the continuation of a continuity from 3 decades ago. It makes more sense (to me) to have Welling's modern version of Clark Kent progress into Superman and eventually meet Bale's "year one" Batman in today's comic continuity than it does for Routh's retro Superman, which was an homage to a 30 year old characterization and plot arc. But that's just me.

The TV vs. film argument doesn't hold water either, IMO. Acting is acting, whether it be on stage, television, or motion picture. If you think an actor is poor, so be it. But the medium in which he/she plays is for the most part, irrelevant. Actors go where the work is. If they have the intestinal fortitude to don the golden handcuffs of series' television, they will. Same goes for the unlucky feature thesps who get suckered into three picture deals.

And finally, the handsomeness - or lack thereof - of Welling vs. Routh is a completely subjective opinion. I do however find it ironic that the same people who felt Welling's male model looks weren't appropriate for Superman still think Routh is "hotter." Yeah, I'm looking at you, Mostpowerful.

Whatever.

 

[The Major]

Agent Pat:

Don't count on comic covers, especially classic ones, to tell you the whole story. Unless you've actually read it, of course.

Superman's had tonnes of covers where he was torturing people and humiliating his friends like Jimmy Olsen but he never was so extreme in the actual stories.

Here's a link to some of the covers: http://www.superdickery.com/

You're over looking the fact Clark never even tried looking in other directions to stop looking at Lana. It's obvious he kept staring like that for at least a few seconds without hesitating. That's intentional behavior.