The Positive Thread

[DrCosmic]

^Gravity had 2 actors.

That is one character compared to how fox is messing with an entire time here. fox will not get lucky with this one & everything else surrounding Quicksilver was good so that also helped

Or the entire X-Men franchise. The only one fans didn't hate before it came out was X2 (and maybe XMWO). Fox just keeps "getting lucky" making stuff that pisses the fans off in pre-production, but because it's done well, fans flock to it. I'm sure their luck will run out soon.

So for you you'd prefer no F4 film at all when there's an option for a great F4 film coming?

And let's be honest here, as much as you guys say it, there is absolutely no certainty the movie will be bad. On the contrary going by recent trends with the studio means the movie by all rights should be good at the very least.

If most fans have no interest in it then they ain't fans. Other movies have changed as much from the source and people loved them, this should be no different.

No! That was different, we liked those changes after the film came out, but we know these changes will be bad!

But yeah, fans would prefer their way or nothing... until the movie actually comes out and it's good and the GA likes it, then all of a sudden, it's golden.

We saw some concept art with the first F4 movie....and footage that was stolen from the set...lol

I think people are just wondering why no one that lives in Baton Rouge, certainly not that large of a city hasn't seen anything, heard anything, etc. Up in Vancouver we had extra's coming onto the forum, etc...just different from the last go around.

We also had ET talking about the filming starting, etc....just not a lot being talked about.

They may not have many extras. If, for instance, they did the first arc of Ultimate Fantastic Four, the only extras would be a couple of soldiers for the Baxter Building, and some extra scientists at the Negative Zone gate thing, and those would all be paid actors with NDA agreements who want to work again. If the film takes place primarily in space or the Negative Zone or someplace fantastic... there just won't be any extras. The FF is unique like that, they aren't really superheroes on the street and whatever. Similar how we only ever got one sneaked pic from GotG because it wouldn't naturally be shot near people. Contrast with Avengers, which takes place in the middle of a city half the time, and so there's tons of shots from people who live in the nearby buildings.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

No! That was different, we liked those changes after the film came out, but we know these changes will be bad!

But yeah, fans would prefer their way or nothing... until the movie actually comes out and it's good and the GA likes it, then all of a sudden, it's golden.

 

[Kelly]

I believe it is possible for this film to end up with a profit and critic buzz....but I do not see an old time Fantastic Four fan saying it's golden....lol

 

[DrCosmic]

Okay, not golden, lol. I still strongly dislike "The Wolverine movies" that are the X-Men films... but as much as I talk mess about them, I also enjoy them, and watch them, and enjoy the action and emotional moments in them. "Oh, but if I had done such-and-such-a-movie, it would have been so much better and character X would have been how they're supposed to be!"

Another reason to be positive about this film: it has no merchandising constraints. We can be sure they won't do a single thing in the film just to help sell toys. Good times.

 

[Dasher10]

Or the entire X-Men franchise. The only one fans didn't hate before it came out was X2 (and maybe XMWO). Fox just keeps "getting lucky" making stuff that pisses the fans off in pre-production, but because it's done well, fans flock to it. I'm sure their luck will run out soon.

Are you sure that's not just a vocal minority? I actually had faith in Fox with their two most recent films since First Class was an improvement. I also was pumped for the first X-Men when it came out.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The best that Fox can hope for with the FF reboot is that it finishes 4th among the highest grossing movies of 2015.

No way it finishes in the top 3.

 

[Eddie]

The best that Fox can hope for with the FF reboot is that it finishes 4th among the highest grossing movies of 2015.

No way it finishes in the top 3.

It has no chance at top 5, and I'll be shocked if it can reach top 10. 2015 will see the release of Star Wars VII, Avengers AoU, Ant-Man, 2 Pixar films, Cinderella, Insurgent, Fast & Furious 7, Tomorrowland, Jurassic World, Ted 2, a new Terminator, Minions, The Jungle Book, Hotel Transylvania 2, a new Bond movie, Peanuts, and the last Hunger Games. FF might beat some of those but it won't beat over a dozen of them.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Ant-Man is a question mark for 2015. They cant keep any directors for the project and there's rumblings of a delay or just flat out cancellation.

 

[Eddie]

Ant-Man is a question mark for 2015. They cant keep any directors for the project and theirs rumblings of a delay or just flat out cancellation.

Even if it gets pushed back there's still several other films that would have to get pushed back for FF to have anything resembling a shot at top 5 status. There's also no guarantee an Ant-Man move wouldn't just be a switch with one of Disney other releases that was coming later that year. Disney has a lot of 2015 releases, and one of them may be done in time to switch. They could also move something like The Jungle Book to 2016.

 

[Paradox1]

It has no chance at top 5, and I'll be shocked if it can reach top 10. 2015 will see the release of Star Wars VII, Avengers AoU, Ant-Man, 2 Pixar films, Cinderella, Insurgent, Fast & Furious 7, Tomorrowland, Jurassic World, Ted 2, a new Terminator, Minions, The Jungle Book, Hotel Transylvania 2, a new Bond movie, Peanuts, and the last Hunger Games. FF might beat some of those but it won't beat over a dozen of them.

Looking at recent trends at the box office the FF will compare quite favorably to other recent reboots. That may not put it in the top five grossing films of that year. However the quality of a film should never be judged by its box office returns. If so Titanic is the greatest movie of all time and that doesn't sit well with me.

 

[EssayM]

It has no chance at top 5, and I'll be shocked if it can reach top 10. 2015 will see the release of Star Wars VII, Avengers AoU, Ant-Man, 2 Pixar films, Cinderella, Insurgent, Fast & Furious 7, Tomorrowland, Jurassic World, Ted 2, a new Terminator, Minions, The Jungle Book, Hotel Transylvania 2, a new Bond movie, Peanuts, and the last Hunger Games. FF might beat some of those but it won't beat over a dozen of them.

Hard to make any judgements. Films disappoint and surprise all the time, even if they come from an established brand. Any number of those movies you listed could easily bomb out of nowhere. I would've expected The Lone Ranger to be a huge hit (Disney + PoTC team + beloved character), but obviously that didn't happen. I also thought Frozen would be a mediocre hit at best, but here we are with "Let It Go" winning an Oscar.

 

[Eddie]

Hard to make any judgements. Films disappoint and surprise all the time, even if they come from an established brand. Any number of those movies you listed could easily bomb out of nowhere. I would've expected The Lone Ranger to be a huge hit (Disney + PoTC team + beloved character), but obviously that didn't happen.

Some of them probably will under perform. A dozen or more of them will not do worse than The Fantastic Four as the release schedule currently stands. Nothing against the positive viewpoint or anything, it's just not in a position to crack the top five with it's competition. If Ant-Man was releasing on the exact same date (hypothetically, since Disney obviously wouldn't actually put two big releases out on the same day) it would make less money. Had Fantastic Four not had to move back from March it would have actually had a stronger release date the way the 2015 schedule went. Small theaters (particularly those in rural areas) will pass on FF simply because too many films are releasing at that time of year for your 1-5 screen theaters to get everything, and FF is the obvious pass when a new Jurassic Park and a new Pixar film are out. Look at Pacific Rim last year. With the level of competition at the time, it made it into several hundred less theaters than bigger name films. Pacific Rim has over a 70% rating on Rotten Tomatoes (fairly positive), but it couldn't crack the top 30 domestic last year.

 

[DrCosmic]

Are you sure that's not just a vocal minority? I actually had faith in Fox with their two most recent films since First Class was an improvement. I also was pumped for the first X-Men when it came out.

I'm not entirely sure the FF hate isn't a vocal minority. Also, the way the net was back then, there weren't as many people aware of how off the X-Men film was going to be beforehand.

The best that Fox can hope for with the FF reboot is that it finishes 4th among the highest grossing movies of 2015.

No way it finishes in the top 3.

I think we've missed Fox's aim. The best Fox can hope for is that the FF reboot have a 300% net return. It can do that and still not be in the top 5 highest grossing films.

 

[Kelly]

I'm not entirely sure the FF hate isn't a vocal minority. Also, the way the net was back then, there weren't as many people aware of how off the X-Men film was going to be beforehand.



I think we've missed Fox's aim. The best Fox can hope for is that the FF reboot have a 300% net return. It can do that and still not be in the top 5 highest grossing films.

I think one of the things you are seeing on the net with this movie today is...

1. The horrible first 2 movies, and the fans just aren't going to get excited again....
2. The first bits of information have thrown off the comic fans so much that they just are not caring anymore and have moved on to other things....

in both instances, it means the fans are just not talking AT ALL, positive or negative, they have just moved on.

I think what would make your post correct would be to say that the LOUD negative narrative on this movie is small, but that is not to say that as far as the fans of the comic that the majority are not happy at all with what they are seeing, and that number goes up when you look at the 616 FF fans as a whole.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think one of the things you are seeing on the net with this movie today is...

1. The horrible first 2 movies, and the fans just aren't going to get excited again....
2. The first bits of information have thrown off the comic fans so much that they just are not caring anymore and have moved on to other things....

in both instances, it means the fans are just not talking AT ALL, positive or negative, they have just moved on.

I think what would make your post correct would be to say that the LOUD negative narrative on this movie is small, but that is not to say that as far as the fans of the comic that the majority are not happy at all with what they are seeing, and that number goes up when you look at the 616 FF fans as a whole.

That's all very possible, but that too could apply to news about various successful X-Men movies before they had any trailers/actual promotion/etc. In fact, if I recall, the narrative on First Class was very similar.

Con: This movie will suck, more Fox disrespect of comics, that's not the real first class, etc, etc
Pro: Trust Vaughn, he did Kick Ass
Con: That's one movie, he probably just got lucky
Pro: The actors they chose are really good
Con: They're no-names, they can't sell a movie

And yet and still XMFC released, a totally bird flipped to the original comics of the same name, and yet... successful, and won over many fans who had 'moved on' as you described.

I'm not saying that that's what will happen this time, just saying, it's happened multiple times before, to Fox about their Marvel comic book properties, and to Vaughn specifically, on the MarvelFox properties he's produced, and things turn out quite well. I'm not sure that the current amount of fan shaming could reasonably be used by Fox to say: "Oh, this time it'll be different, this time they mean bid'ness."

No, fans will follow the GA, they always do, no matter how organic your web-shooters, how mentally uninsightful your Batman, how unrecognizable your X-Men teams are, if it's good, fans come around, even the ones that hate it will pay you money multiple times.

 

[EssayM]

After some thinking, I'm starting to "get" Miles Teller as a young Reed Richards. I mean, if you look at his filmography and filter out the comedies, his performances include a young man struggling with guilt after causing an accident that dramatically changed someone else's life (Rabbit Hole), a brilliant prodigy under internal and external pressure to excel in his craft (Whiplash), and a young man learning to take responsibility for his actions (The Spectacular Now). Any and all of those portrayals could fit a young Reed Richards, and maybe even help flesh out the character beyond the stuffy intellectual he's sometimes portrayed as. It will be interesting to see where Teller goes with the character.

As for the rest of the cast, Mara and Jordan will probably give rather traditional portrayals of the Storms (though Jordan might give Johnny a bit of a streetwise edge, drawing from The Wire and Fruitvale Station). Jamie Bell is kind of a question mark right now due to his accent and height, but Hugh Jackman overcame both limitations back in 2000 with much less film experience than Bell has, so I'm sure he'll pull through somehow.

Kebbell could be an interesting Doom, provided they let him keep his accent and make him an enjoyable villain instead of a generic prep-school *****e.

 

[Kelly]

That's all very possible, but that too could apply to news about various successful X-Men movies before they had any trailers/actual promotion/etc. In fact, if I recall, the narrative on First Class was very similar.

Con: This movie will suck, more Fox disrespect of comics, that's not the real first class, etc, etc
Pro: Trust Vaughn, he did Kick Ass
Con: That's one movie, he probably just got lucky
Pro: The actors they chose are really good
Con: They're no-names, they can't sell a movie

And yet and still XMFC released, a totally bird flipped to the original comics of the same name, and yet... successful, and won over many fans who had 'moved on' as you described.

I'm not saying that that's what will happen this time, just saying, it's happened multiple times before, to Fox about their Marvel comic book properties, and to Vaughn specifically, on the MarvelFox properties he's produced, and things turn out quite well. I'm not sure that the current amount of fan shaming could reasonably be used by Fox to say: "Oh, this time it'll be different, this time they mean bid'ness."

No, fans will follow the GA, they always do, no matter how organic your web-shooters, how mentally uninsightful your Batman, how unrecognizable your X-Men teams are, if it's good, fans come around, even the ones that hate it will pay you money multiple times.

IF Kinberg, and the actors are TOTALLY INCORRECT in their initial descriptions, then I can agree, if it is a good F4 movie, they will come around. I'm sorry, I do not believe for 1 second that the 616 F4 fans of decades will come around JUST BECAUSE the movie is "good", "good F4 movie"? sure....just a good movie. No, there will be no repeat viewings. And, is it right for it just to be a "good" movie, but not necessarily a "good F4 adventure movie"? I think that is a question that needs to be answered....IMO, no, that is not good enough to multi-decade F4 fans...

 

[Dasher10]

IF Kinberg, and the actors are TOTALLY INCORRECT in their initial descriptions, then I can agree, if it is a good F4 movie, they will come around. I'm sorry, I do not believe for 1 second that the 616 F4 fans of decades will come around JUST BECAUSE the movie is "good", "good F4 movie"? sure....just a good movie. No, there will be no repeat viewings. And, is it right for it just to be a "good" movie, but not necessarily a "good F4 adventure movie"? I think that is a question that needs to be answered....IMO, no, that is not good enough to multi-decade F4 fans...

Marvel used the Ultimate version of Thor as their inspiration. Sony also took far more inspiration from Ultimate Peter Parker, Ultimate Electro and Ultimate Rhino than they did the mainstream versions. There are more fans than just those who enjoy the 616 universe and say what you will about Ultimate today but before Ultimatum, it was pretty awesome and Marvel is now bringing characters back from the dead in the Ultimate Universe like Spider-Man and Doctor Doom since they realized that they killed off way too many people.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I enjoyed THOR, one of my faves of the MCU. But it's not a good THOR movie.

He spends the majority of the movie on earth not being Thor and there's no Donald Blake, Jane Foster was changed from a Nurse to a scientist, instead of Thor characters they just made up new characters, the changed Heimdalls race and Abandonned his sibling-ship with Sif.

By all rights that movie should've got the reception this is getting as the changes are very similar so far.

Even if F4 isn't an accurate F4 movie it'll be no different than Thor as long as it's an entertaining movie.

. In fact, if I recall, the narrative on First Class was very similar.

Con: This movie will suck, more Fox disrespect of comics, that's not the real first class, etc, etc
Pro: Trust Vaughn, he did Kick Ass
Con: That's one movie, he probably just got lucky
Pro: The actors they chose are really good
Con: They're no-names, they can't sell a movie

And yet and still XMFC released, a totally bird flipped to the original comics of the same name, and yet... successful, and won over many fans who had 'moved on' as you described.

I'm not saying that that's what will happen this time, just saying, it's happened

Excellent example.

One thing I'm mystified at is why there isn't any good will from recent, not half-decade ago, Fox Superhero movies.

Their last three have been well-liked if not beloved

 

[EssayM]

As a lifelong Batman fan, I thought the Nolan films were terrible Batman movies, regardless of quality. Do I even need to say how successful they were?

 

[DrCosmic]

As a lifelong Batman fan, I thought the Nolan films were terrible Batman movies, regardless of quality. Do I even need to say how successful they were?

Dude... Bale's Batman can't even come up with a good cover on his own, and he's, at his core, Bruce Wayne. Batman is something he puts on, he becomes for the good of others. Totally against the core of the character in comics. But the movies were incredibly incredibly well done, so people liked them.

IF Kinberg, and the actors are TOTALLY INCORRECT in their initial descriptions, then I can agree, if it is a good F4 movie, they will come around. I'm sorry, I do not believe for 1 second that the 616 F4 fans of decades will come around JUST BECAUSE the movie is "good", "good F4 movie"? sure....just a good movie. No, there will be no repeat viewings. And, is it right for it just to be a "good" movie, but not necessarily a "good F4 adventure movie"? I think that is a question that needs to be answered....IMO, no, that is not good enough to multi-decade F4 fans...

Fans don't need it to be a good movie of that character to come around. Nolan's trilogy are terrible Batman movies. The X-Men films are absolutely terrible X-Men movies (and only half-decent Wolverine movies). Fans come around, in droves. Fans just forget about all that if it's a good movie and the GA likes it.

Initial Description: "Bruce Wayne is a lost self absorbed loner, traveling the world without purpose, who is apprenticed to Merely Ducard, who is really Ra's Al Ghul and is taught Ninjitsu to overcome his fear of bats and become Batman, a symbol of hope for the good people of Gotham, especially to the most important person in his life, Assistant DA Rachel Dawes. Thanks to his trusty friends Lucius and Alfred, he is given a cover identity as a vapid playboy and a host of gadgets and vehicles which he paints black, and recruits Captain James Gordon to fight crime with him."
Fans: WTF!?!??!!?
"**SWEAR TO ME!!!!**"
Fans:

Now perhaps Fox, spoiled from their horrible X-Men movies (according to fans of: Cyclops, Storm, Jean Grey, Iceman, Colossus, Shadowcat, Psylocke, Angel, Gambit, Rogue, y'know - The X-MEN.), were overconfident in their ability to give out the initial description. Fans might attach to this more than usual, but the initial description being off means nothing to fans after the movie comes out.

I don't know why "is it right" needs to be answered. What is the moral imperative that is being overlooked supposedly? Fox owes fans a faithful high quality account of the Fantastic Four? It is their civic duty? Their religious duty? So many others have overlooked this duty, I'm not sure why asking it of Fox is the right question.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I love the majority of the X-Men movies as movies.

As X-Men movies I think they have the base concept down, the problem has been they haven't expanded much.

The roster hasn't changed too much, however in movies you can't have tens of characters running around so the level of progression has been satisfactory. Villain-wise it's pretty much just been Magneto and Stryker.

To be more X-Men like all they have to do is introduce more colour into their costumes and establish a bigger world with different villains and teams

 

[DrCosmic]

Nah, not for me. To be great X-Men movies, the films would have to give different characters major arcs, and not just Wolverine, Xavier and Magneto. Avengers, in contrast, did really well with this as every character in the film got a small arc, even Hawkeye to a degree. Sure there was a 'lead' character with the major arc, but he wasn't the focus of the film, just the lead. They were all awesome and interesting in the context of the story, not just the context of the lead character. This is on top of the comics often being a true ensemble without a single lead character.

So even if they don't expand, if they actually use what they have as characters as opposed to foils and background and utility powers, that would be true X-Men to me. Extra points if Rogue actually gets her classic powerset and attitude. Whether or not they use Mr. Sinister, Mojo, Arcade, Exodus and the Acolytes, Cassandra Nova, Omega Red or Onslaught is largely immaterial for me. I think they've done well giving us Senator Kelly, Bolivar Trask (twice! ), Sentinels, William Stryker, Lady Deathstrike, Sebastian Shaw, Mastermind and Dark Phoenix, though again, those are all poor portrayals of those characters (with the possible exception of Trask and the Sentinels).

 

[Dasher10]

While I previously stated that I wasn't in any way excited for this movie anymore, I think I'm coming around again since Fox is doing more promo and actually bothering to communicate with fans.

Apparently Michael B. Jordan is a fan of the property and has been for some time.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/03/fantastic-four-star-says-tone-of-film-will-be-grounded

That's at least doing SOMETHING to restore my confidence as opposed to Fox not telling people anything like they were doing. It's good to have a fan on board.

 

[SuperT]

I haven't been to this forum in ages but I still see no reason why tihs is going to be bad. You have Matthew Vaughn who knocked it out of the park with First Class as producer, Josh Trank who knocked it out with Chronicle and now Simon Kinberg who just delivered a SUPERB script for Days of Future Past.

Not to mention four extremely talented lead actors and some great supporting ones as well. I'm eagerly awaiting for information on this one...