The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[juarez]

Just curious - do you guys really believe that the only purpose of rachel's character is to motivate the male characters of the film through her death? I'll admit that the character isn't exactly the most exciting or well-written protagonist, but I'd like to think that her character has more to offer than her demise.

Why ought the female protagonist/love-interest be the one to suffer at the hands of the villain? I know that with her history with Wayne and now Dent it'd be the obvious way to go in establishing their mutual animosity, but wouldn't that be TOO obvious?

With all the mayhem and murder the Joker unleashes in this film, why does it have to be made "personal" between Bats and Joker? Surely the Joker's assualt on Gotham's citizens would mean just as much to Bruce as an assault on Rachel?

I suppose I'm just tired with all this conjecture that Rachel will die at the hands of the Joker, and feel it comes from a slightly misogynistic place.

 

[Laderlappen]

There's nothing I "expect" to happen, because I dont think this a movie you can. Killing Rachel is one thing, but killing her just so Batman has something to hate about the villian just sends the wrong message. And Joe Chill already had that purpose.

 

[Jonathan Crane]

There was a decapitation in Prince Caspian and it is only PG

Because in Narnia are biblical names and other crap, so you know. They could have anal rape scene, and it still would be PG t:

 

[inflames]

Because in Narnia are biblical names and other crap, so you know. They could have anal rape scene, and it still would be PG t:

offensive and ignorant much?

 

[Franky4Fingers]

I think something similar to MI:3 where Hoffman threatens Cruise by putting a gun to his wife's head and re-assuring him he will kill her if he doesnt do what he wants (I know it ended up not really being his wife but still). Something like that would be a cool way to kill rachel and demoralize either Bruce/Batman or Harvey. Have Joker sit one of them right in front of rachel and render them helpless as he kills rachel with a very sinister attitude about it. I kind of like the pushing off the building idea (whether or not thats how she dies idk) I can see him grabbing her arm and walking her to the windw turning to the civilians in the room and flat shoving her off the building cutting to her free falling down the sky scraper.

 

[bkey]

Because in Narnia are biblical names and other crap, so you know. They could have anal rape scene, and it still would be PG t:

not so much.

But I take it ur joking, due to the grin

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Just curious - do you guys really believe that the only purpose of rachel's character is to motivate the male characters of the film through her death? I'll admit that the character isn't exactly the most exciting or well-written protagonist, but I'd like to think that her character has more to offer than her demise.

Why ought the female protagonist/love-interest be the one to suffer at the hands of the villain? I know that with her history with Wayne and now Dent it'd be the obvious way to go in establishing their mutual animosity, but wouldn't that be TOO obvious?

With all the mayhem and murder the Joker unleashes in this film, why does it have to be made "personal" between Bats and Joker? Surely the Joker's assualt on Gotham's citizens would mean just as much to Bruce as an assault on Rachel?

I suppose I'm just tired with all this conjecture that Rachel will die at the hands of the Joker, and feel it comes from a slightly misogynistic place.

I feel the SCRIPT comes from a slightly misogynistic place. Look at every Batman film. There was always a female character in peril to motivate the hero. Except B&R for obvious reasons... wink wink nudge nudge.

Because in Narnia are biblical names and other crap, so you know. They could have anal rape scene, and it still would be PG t:

Seriously, Narnia does get away with way too much because the whole series was written to reference the bible and S C Lewis spent half his life writing Christian theological treatises. And we know the MPAA is a conservative, older and mostly Christian board of people.

Look at what happened in Passion of the Christ. Even Ebert said it was wrong for it to get only an R rating, and he was raised Catholic. He basically stated that in his opinion, if Passion of the Christ did not deserve an NC-17 than nothing does. It's sick that people took little kids to see that movie. But again... "Christian theme" and you can do whatever you want according to the board.

 

[GregComicFan]

Killing Rachel Dawes would NOT be pointless....there's many reasons for her to die:

1) It could explain Harvey's decent into vigilantism (Nolan has said in interviews that his Two-Face is more of a vigilante with more brutal methods than Batman, rather than a "true villain"... therefore Harvey needs a death to motivate him, just like Bruce was motivated by the death of his parents.

2) The Joker IS Batman's most personal foe. In the comics, he killed Robin II, crippled Batgirl, kidnapped/tortured Gordon, killed Gordon's wife. It would be only fitting/true-to-the-comics for the Joker to strike at Batman in a personal way.

3) If Rachel dies, Nolan would show his superhero franchise has more balls than any other franchise. Raimi had his shot, but he introduced Mary Jane prior to Gwen Stacy and missed his chance to kill off Gwen.

4) Rachel's death may be necessary if Nolan is seriously contemplating Catwoman for Batman 3. We already know TDK has a "love triangle" between Dent/Dawes/Wayne... it would be redunant if Dawes was still a possible love interest and then Bruce was torn between Selina and her.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Killing Rachel Dawes would NOT be pointless....there's many reasons for her to die:

1) It could explain Harvey's decent into vigilantism (Nolan has said in interviews that his Two-Face is more of a vigilante with more brutal methods than Batman, rather than a "true villain"... therefore Harvey needs a death to motivate him, just like Bruce was motivated by the death of his parents.

2) The Joker IS Batman's most personal foe. In the comics, he killed Robin II, crippled Batgirl, kidnapped/tortured Gordon, killed Gordon's wife. It would be only fitting/true-to-the-comics for the Joker to strike at Batman in a personal way.

3) If Rachel dies, Nolan would show his superhero franchise has more balls than any other franchise. Raimi had his shot, but he introduced Mary Jane prior to Gwen Stacy and missed his chance to kill off Gwen.

4) Rachel's death may be necessary if Nolan is seriously contemplating Catwoman for Batman 3. We already know TDK has a "love triangle" between Dent/Dawes/Wayne... it would be redunant if Dawes was still a possible love interest and then Bruce was torn between Selina and her.

There are plenty of good reasons for Rachel to die, those are some of them, but the best is that she is an annoying, useless character.

 

[Nightmare]

Killing Rachel Dawes would NOT be pointless....there's many reasons for her to die:


3) If Rachel dies, Nolan would show his superhero franchise has more balls than any other franchise. Raimi had his shot, but he introduced Mary Jane prior to Gwen Stacy and missed his chance to kill off Gwen.

What about Harry Osborne?

 

[Crook]

Yeah, he counts much more than Rachel did. Even though he died in the comics, the audience still cared for Harry. That's more than anyone can say about Rachel as a character.

Killing her off doesn't do much, except take away the annoyance. I would not call it ballsy considering how many people wanted her off'd in the first place.

 

[The Batman]

2) The Joker IS Batman's most personal foe. In the comics, he killed Robin II, crippled Batgirl, kidnapped/tortured Gordon, killed Gordon's wife. It would be only fitting/true-to-the-comics for the Joker to strike at Batman in a personal way.

.

Except, like mentioned before, the joker killing millions of people that bruce has sworn to protect makes their fued personal enough.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Yeah, he counts much more than Rachel did. Even though he died in the comics, the audience still cared for Harry. That's more than anyone can say about Rachel as a character.

Killing her off doesn't do much, except take away the annoyance. I would not call it ballsy considering how many people wanted her off'd in the first place.

Cheers to that

 

[cjblair]

Dude come on! You think Nolan would actually give that away in a trailer, I dont think so.

There are pics of her at Loeb's funeral. I assume the Joker crashes Wayne's party before he blows GCPD HQ. So she may easily survive.

 

[cjblair]

Yeah, he counts much more than Rachel did. Even though he died in the comics, the audience still cared for Harry. That's more than anyone can say about Rachel as a character.

Killing her off doesn't do much, except take away the annoyance. I would not call it ballsy considering how many people wanted her off'd in the first place.

I kinda see her as a female version of Jason Todd, SOMEBODY GIVE ME A CROWBAR!

 

[Nepenthes]

Alot of non-comic fans liked Rachel in BB, and they will like her even more in TDK.

She knees the Joker in the balls. and smirks at him. That's a lady right there.

 

[Crook]

Alot of non-comic fans liked Rachel in BB, and they will like her even more in TDK.

She knees the Joker in the balls. and smirks at him. That's a lady right there.

"Alot of non-comic fans"? Sure you're not pulling that outta thin air?

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Alot of non-comic fans liked Rachel in BB, and they will like her even more in TDK.

She knees the Joker in the balls. and smirks at him. That's a lady right there.

Well thats just a clip from a trailer. Our hatred for Rachel began in BB and has had time to grow and fester in the years hence.

 

[Nepenthes]

^ you speak of her like she's a boil that must be lanced

"Alot of non-comic fans"? Sure you're not pulling that outta thin air?

My mother, my ex and the girls I lived with at university....

 

[Laderlappen]

Killing Rachel Dawes would NOT be pointless....there's many reasons for her to die:


4) Rachel's death may be necessary if Nolan is seriously contemplating Catwoman for Batman 3. We already know TDK has a "love triangle" between Dent/Dawes/Wayne... it would be redunant if Dawes was still a possible love interest and then Bruce was torn between Selina and her.

Sure, Bruce's exG have just died. No he can finally try to find another GF. You're making Bruce look like the biggest a-hole in town. Rachel's death only makes it harder for Nolan to introduce Catwoman.

And your other reasons are very minor. Showing you have balls is not a reason to kill a character.

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

Rachel needs to die. And I hope the Joker does it in a sick twisted way that causes her a lot of pain. However, I do wish it was Katie Holmes playing her during this fatality. Not that I dislike Katie Holmes, but the unlikeability and pretensiousness she brought to the role really makes me want her to die. And it has nothing to do with chauvinism, I think Catwoman and Talia Al Ghul are two of the best characters ever created in Batman mythology, I just really hate the Rachel character. And it would be a nice added bonus, and not a cheap gimmick IMO, to why Bats and the Joker hate each other so much.

 

[super85]

And it would be a nice added bonus, and not a cheap gimmick IMO, to why Bats and the Joker hate each other so much.

The Joker being the effin Joker should be reason enough for Batman to hate him. Female character almost always get treated like s*t in comicbooks and very often in films. I would *****ing cheer if they managed something smarter then killing her off.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

The Joker being the effin Joker should be reason enough for Batman to hate him. Female character almost always get treated like s*t in comicbooks and very often in films. I would *****ing cheer if they managed something smarter then killing her off.

I completely agree with you on all points, especially being of the fairer sex, however even though they have used the "girl in peril" plot device in every last heterosexual Batman film, I'm going to say in this particular case, Rachel seriously needs to bite the dust.

I hate her stupid character and I hope she goes splat. Too bad it couldn't have happened with Katie in the role, because Maggie might actually make Rachel likable for the 10 minutes before she is street pizza.

 

[Laderlappen]

They could also just not have the character in the third. Killing her isnt necassary.

 

[Two-Face]

I don't know what's the situation of Rachel in TDK if they don't use her in next movie just say she's gone to Europe or something.