The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[BatmanFanatic]

I already know there'd be a bias.

-TNC

Its not a bias. It's just how people percieve the lack of chemistry. Its not saying that one or both or either of the actors are even bad... they just didnt click with eachother.

 

[Sandouras]

clearly you didnt get the joke. Notice the ""

 

[cjblair]

Yup, have to agree with you. Not only is Katie a bad actress, but some of the things written for her - like condescending speeches to Bruce Wayne, just made me want to smack her.

When I think of Rachel Dawes, as a character, the words "self righteous" and "b****" come to mind. The poor SOB watched his parents get gunned down, then he has to watch the guy walk free. He didn't even try that hard to kill Chill. But I love the ironic death scenes though. When the bad guy dies due to misadventure or some third party like Falcone. Like Bruce's whole line about I won't kill you BUT I don't have to save you. Brilliant, or when he "killed" the fake Ra's; falling flaming timbers...didn't see that one coming.

If the Joker does die he'll probably slip on a banana peel and get impaled on his own knife, like a Green Goblin we all know...

 

[magus]

When I think of Rachel Dawes, as a character, the words "self righteous" and "b****" come to mind. The poor SOB watched his parents get gunned down, then he has to watch the guy walk free. He didn't even try that hard to kill Chill. But I love the ironic death scenes though. When the bad guy dies due to misadventure or some third party like Falcone. Like Bruce's whole line about I won't kill you BUT I don't have to save you. Brilliant, or when he "killed" the fake Ra's; falling flaming timbers...didn't see that one coming.

If the Joker does die he'll probably slip on a banana peel and get impaled on his own knife, like a Green Goblin we all know...

In all fairness that is how the Goblin really died in the comics. Back to self-righteous feminist ***** discussion

 

[BatmanFanatic]

clearly you didnt get the joke. Notice the ""

Oh yah. Duh. Sorries

 

[BatmanFanatic]

In all fairness that is how the Goblin really died in the comics. Back to self-righteous feminist ***** discussion

Yes, back to that - see bellow.

This is the problem with a bunch of guys with that warped, modern view of what feminism is, writing a "strong" female character into the script.

Being a feminist doesn't actually mean holding some lofty position or fancy job title while you divorce yourself from human feeling , any hint of nurturing and compassion, treat your friends like crap and slap men when they say something you don't agree with.

That's just a twisted caricature of a feminist.

The essential idea of feminism is that women are equal to men - just because they are - not that they have to become men, or take up the roles and values typically associated with men in order to attain equality in the eyes of others or to prove something.

But those who lack this understanding just keep painting ridiculous, almost insulting portraits of "strong women." You would never see a clever housewife or a retired grandmother with a big role in a blockbuster film ... only these ambitious, career driven, obnoxious, "ball-busting" types. Like our beloved Rachel Dawes.

Wow, I really agree with myself there... what do YOU guys think? LOL =)

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

clearly you didnt get the joke. Notice the ""

Hmm. Probationary ban huh?

Maybe you should learn to work on some of your jokes. It helps, if they're actually funny.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

But those who lack this understanding just keep painting ridiculous, almost insulting portraits of "strong women." You would never see a clever housewife or a retired grandmother with a big role in a blockbuster film ... only these ambitious, career driven, obnoxious, "ball-busting" types. Like our beloved Rachel Dawes.

So you're saying that women shouldn't be ambitious and career oriented?? Interesting.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

So you're saying that women shouldn't be ambitious and career oriented?? Interesting.

What a ridiculous statement.

There is nothing that women SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be. They have free will.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Clearly I explained that there is more than one definition of what "a feminist" is, and being a corporate ladder climber no more makes you "a feminist" than being a stay at home mom.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

What a ridiculous statement.

There is nothing that women SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be. They have free will.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Clearly I explained that there is more than one definition of what "a feminist" is, and being a corporate ladder climber no more makes you "a feminist" than being a stay at home mom.

It was your statement wasn't it? Let's see:
"But those who lack this understanding just keep painting ridiculous, almost insulting portraits of "strong women." You would never see a clever housewife or a retired grandmother with a big role in a blockbuster film ... only these ambitious, career driven, obnoxious, "ball-busting" types. Like our beloved Rachel Dawes."

I'll rephrase my question. What do you have against "ambitious, career driven" female characters, such as Dawes? Would you prefer Bruce's leading lady to be a stay at home couch potato?

 

[Crook]

I think the indication was more on how Rachel was presented. The tough, no-frills woman with a strong compassion for justice, was overtly written into the character. It didn't help when Katie was obviously not up to par with even playing the part.

 

[Zohan Dvir]

So you're saying that women shouldn't be ambitious and career oriented?? Interesting.

That's a little bit of a strawman argument. I don't think that's BatmanFanatic's position. He's just saying that Hollywood seems to only portray strong, independent females as bitter ball busting *****es with chips on their shoulders. Whereas strong independent females can also be portrayed as such outside this single mold.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That's a little bit of a strawman argument. I don't think that's BatmanFanatic's position. He's just saying that Hollywood seems to only portray strong, independent females as bitter ball busting *****es with chips on their shoulders. Whereas strong independent females can also be portrayed as such outside this single mold.

I know. I was just playing devil's advocate. BF is a female herself, btw.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think the indication was more on how Rachel was presented. The tough, no-frills woman with a strong compassion for justice, was overtly written into the character. It didn't help when Katie was obviously not up to par with even playing the part.

Yeah. At the time everyone was hoping that Nolan would flesh the Dawes character out somewhat after initially reading Goyer's leaked script, but it didn't happen. The lines were awful and Katie played Dawes like a robot.

I have faith that Maggie will do justice by the character though. We'll see.

 

[xero1186]

It would be most ideal if rachel dawes was killed within the first 20minutes of the movie.

The character is weak, the actresses are both weak, the script for her role came across as something the producers forced upon the writers. I will not be watching a possible 3rd batman film if this character makes it through The Dark Knight. There's just no reason for it.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I will not be watching a possible 3rd batman film if this character makes it through The Dark Knight. There's just no reason for it.

Hand on the Bible?

 

[xero1186]

If this happens I will not be seeing it in theaters, no

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I know. I was just playing devil's advocate.

Oooohhhh... naughty, naughty

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Hand on the Bible?

If this happens I will not be seeing it in theaters, no

Excellent. Now, lets track him down and bar him from seeing the 3rd one t:

Actually I'm not worried.

Spoiler

B!t*H gonna DIE!

 

[Laderlappen]

It would be most ideal if rachel dawes was killed within the first 20minutes of the movie.

The character is weak, the actresses are both weak, the script for her role came across as something the producers forced upon the writers. I will not be watching a possible 3rd batman film if this character makes it through The Dark Knight. There's just no reason for it.

Maggie a weak actress? What have you been smoking?!

 

[bkey]

If this happens I will not be seeing it in theaters, no

Wow, thats intense

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Excellent. Now, lets track him down and bar him from seeing the 3rd one t:

Actually I'm not worried.

Spoiler

B!t*H gonna DIE!

I'm trying not to follow too many spoilers, but is this now confirmed or still just speculation based on Aaron Eckhardt's recent comments regarding his fiance?

 

[bkey]

I'm trying not to follow too many spoilers, but is this now confirmed or still just speculation based on Aaron Eckhardt's recent comments regarding his fiance?

Speculation based on Eckhart's comments. Plus I believe a few people who supposedly have insider information have hinted at it.

 

[notoriousnate87]

It would be most ideal if rachel dawes was killed within the first 20minutes of the movie.

The character is weak, the actresses are both weak, the script for her role came across as something the producers forced upon the writers. I will not be watching a possible 3rd batman film if this character makes it through The Dark Knight. There's just no reason for it.

and that's just in your head, but many of us here believe Gyllenhaal will do greta justice to the chsracter of Rachel.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I don't think Maggie is a weak actress at all. But I do think Rachel is a weak character, and I think she better serves the plot by her death than by anything else.