The Dark Knight The Rachel Dawes thread

[Laderlappen]

You don't find the sudden change from wholesome little teenager, to full-fledged woman, any more different?

No, I dont find that change to be as extreme as suddenly making her a "hottie". Or as distracting.

 

[sasquatchs]

I'm reserving final judgement until I see her in the film, but I just don't think she looks like the right girl for Bruce to be pining over. They should be the same age too, she looks older.

Oh well, what can we do about it now. Just bad casting.

Bruce pining over anyone is the mistake, seemingly he's still the naive one who's last to realise where Batman is taking his life

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Now back onto our argument. How is my background any less valid then yours now? Since you are using backgrounds as a way of expressing opinion, how is it that my opinion with my background is less then your degrees and classes? There are a majority of people who cite their background onto subjects, like I have said before, however most posts is excessive and that is why I shined my light on you for doing it.

How is my conclusion rash? This is since you first came here. Should I keep a track of all your posts and cite and reference every time you did it? The way it is presented has had a snide condescending way of wording things.

This is just going to go back and forth isn't it? You win I'm an ass I'm tired of typing.

At no point did I say that yours or anyone elses background was "less valid than mine." That condescention you keep mentioning is entirely assumed. If you go back and look I heartily agreed with one post which stated you didn't have to be an engineer to say that a certain car was better than another, and you didn't have to be a supermodel to say if one person was more attractive than another - I gave the further example that one did not need to kill a person in order to know that murder was wrong. Basically, that one does not need credentials to have a valid point.

If I believed that, I would be out of luck when it came to a lot of other fields. I couldn't vote if I didn't have a political science degree... what kind of sense does that make?

But given that the world is not black and white, the reason I mentioned my background at all is because it was relevant to my opinion. It doesnt PROVE my opinion, but when one person tells me that a Porshe is great and another person tells me that a Porshe is okay but overpriced for the amount of horsepower (or whatever) I WOULD give more weight to the opinion of a person who is qualified in some way to talk about the details of cars, either by experience or by education.

So in the same way, because this specific topic related to what I do, I mentioned my experience and background to back up my opinions, and I don't believe I was out of line or snobish or whatever to do so. I'm certainly not running around talking about my life choices for the sole purpose of annoying you, so I don't know why it bothered you so personally. No one else had a problem with what I said, and I'm sorry this argument has dragged out so unreasonably in public, but I felt the need to defend myself against accusations of feeling superior due to an art degree ... which is a statement that appeared so hilariously false (not just because of who I am, but the very idea of anyone feeling superior due to an art degree) that I decided to reply.

Bottom line is I don't suffer any dillusions of superiority due to my education or anything else, but I do feel it makes me qualified to speak on artistic matters with more competence than someone not familiar with the subject.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Bruce pining over anyone is the mistake, seemingly he's still the naive one who's last to realise where Batman is taking his life

Thats a really good point sasquatchs.

Honestly, wouldn't Bruce be the FIRST to realize that being Batman and having a wife and kids aren't going to mix? Isn't the character of Bruce in the comics always quite clear, and quite obsessive about the sacrifices that must be made for the good of the mission?

This version of Batman is a bit naive and dopey for my tastes. I don't particularly like the idea of Bruce not being able to get over anyone, when they have so obviously moved on from him...it's a bit pathetic. And she's basically just his childhood friend... it's not like in these films him and Rachel had some crazy, wild, passionate romance that ended badly when she discovered his "other" side. They had one really pathetic kiss saying goodbye, and now he's convinced that they were meant to be together forever?

I wonder how the storyline would be if they left Rachel out of it completely. Hasn't every Batman film thus far had the "girl he loves in danger" angle? They need a different trick =P

 

[Majik1387]

I wonder how the storyline would be if they left Rachel out of it completely. Hasn't every Batman film thus far had the "girl he loves in danger" angle? They need a different trick =P

Batman & Robin didn't have than angle.





[BLACKOUT]I'm sorry I had to.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[BatmanFanatic]

Batman & Robin didn't have than angle.





[blackout]I'm sorry I had to.[/blackout]

Oh come on now, we aaaaaaaaaall know why it didn't have that angle.

 

[deathfromabove]

At no point did I say that yours or anyone elses background was "less valid than mine." That condescention you keep mentioning is entirely assumed. If you go back and look I heartily agreed with one post which stated you didn't have to be an engineer to say that a certain car was better than another, and you didn't have to be a supermodel to say if one person was more attractive than another - I gave the further example that one did not need to kill a person in order to know that murder was wrong. Basically, that one does not need credentials to have a valid point.

If I believed that, I would be out of luck when it came to a lot of other fields. I couldn't vote if I didn't have a political science degree... what kind of sense does that make?

But given that the world is not black and white, the reason I mentioned my background at all is because it was relevant to my opinion. It doesnt PROVE my opinion, but when one person tells me that a Porshe is great and another person tells me that a Porshe is okay but overpriced for the amount of horsepower (or whatever) I WOULD give more weight to the opinion of a person who is qualified in some way to talk about the details of cars, either by experience or by education.

So in the same way, because this specific topic related to what I do, I mentioned my experience and background to back up my opinions, and I don't believe I was out of line or snobish or whatever to do so. I'm certainly not running around talking about my life choices for the sole purpose of annoying you, so I don't know why it bothered you so personally. No one else had a problem with what I said, and I'm sorry this argument has dragged out so unreasonably in public, but I felt the need to defend myself against accusations of feeling superior due to an art degree ... which is a statement that appeared so hilariously false (not just because of who I am, but the very idea of anyone feeling superior due to an art degree) that I decided to reply.

Bottom line is I don't suffer any dillusions of superiority due to my education or anything else, but I do feel it makes me qualified to speak on artistic matters with more competence than someone not familiar with the subject.

hey captain

dont feed the trolls.

even if they are indie filmakers, portrait artists, political consultants, womyns studies majors, theatre whatevers, aspiring actors or wannabe critics that pretend to like batman but dont really read the books, talk down to everyone, and peddle large amounts of bull ****.

i repeat, dont feed the trolls.

 

[Majik1387]

Oh come on now, we aaaaaaaaaall know why it didn't have that angle.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

t:t:t:

 

[Conebone69]

I really hope rachel doesnt die from joker throwing her off a building. Thats so un-creative and not original. And plus that scenes in the trailer so I doubt thats were she bites it. If she dies at least have her die in a better way than joker randomly throwing her off a building... I mean seriously

 

[KILLING JOKER]

I really hope rachel doesnt die from joker throwing her off a building. Thats so un-creative and not original. And plus that scenes in the trailer so I doubt thats were she bites it. If she dies at least have her die in a better way than joker randomly throwing her off a building... I mean seriously

Agreed. I seriously don't think she will die in that scene.

 

[bkey]

Agreed. I seriously don't think she will die in that scene.

I agree. I think the trailer shows a lot that leads us to believe one thing, when it will turn out completely different in the movie.

 

[Crook]

You mean like Joker throws her off, we hear the intense music stop, the camera pans over the balcony, and it turns out Rachel just landed on another shorter balcony below?

Then the audience laughs and the rest of the film just dwindles down from there.

 

[Conebone69]

You mean like Joker throws her off, we hear the intense music stop, the camera pans over the balcony, and it turns out Rachel just landed on another shorter balcony below?

Then the audience laughs and the rest of the film just dwindles down from there.

Why would the audience laugh? I think it would be better if it panned over and she was hanging onto a ledge or something. Then bats saves her

 

[Majik1387]

Isn't that what sorta happened in Batman 89?

 

[Conebone69]

I dont remember, I havent seen batman 89 in a long time

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I really hope rachel doesnt die from joker throwing her off a building. Thats so un-creative and not original. And plus that scenes in the trailer so I doubt thats were she bites it. If she dies at least have her die in a better way than joker randomly throwing her off a building... I mean seriously

Dude come on! You think Nolan would actually give that away in a trailer, I dont think so.

 

[Laderlappen]

I agree. I think the trailer shows a lot that leads us to believe one thing, when it will turn out completely different in the movie.

Like that first picture that was released with Joker and Rachel. People thought Rachel was gonna be carved.

 

[Nightmare]

I dont remember, I havent seen batman 89 in a long time

Very Similar to what happend in batman 89.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I really hope rachel doesnt die from joker throwing her off a building. Thats so un-creative and not original. And plus that scenes in the trailer so I doubt thats were she bites it. If she dies at least have her die in a better way than joker randomly throwing her off a building... I mean seriously

Agreed. She needs a better death. Joker is more creative than just shoving people, right?

You mean like Joker throws her off, we hear the intense music stop, the camera pans over the balcony, and it turns out Rachel just landed on another shorter balcony below?

Then the audience laughs and the rest of the film just dwindles down from there.

She should be shoved, fall, then Batman through a near miracle manages to swoop in and grab her in time, only to have her be killed in a more creative and nasty death by Joker a little while later. Now THAT would mess with our heroic men in the film! Dent snaps, and Bats decides it's killing time.

 

[GregComicFan]

Keep in mind this movie is rated PG-13.... that means Rachel, if she does die, is not going to be butchered to death (with the Joker slicing and hacking away at her on-screen), or have a smile carved on her face (on-screen), or get shot in the head.... a PG-13 death WOULD be something like dropping a character out a window... CUT TO: Rachel on ground (no blood), but not moving, obviously dead cause she fell 92874 feet.

 

[The Battousai]

Keep in mind this movie is rated PG-13.... that means Rachel, if she does die, is not going to be butchered to death (with the Joker slicing and hacking away at her on-screen), or have a smile carved on her face (on-screen), or get shot in the head.... a PG-13 death WOULD be something like dropping a character out a window... CUT TO: Rachel on ground (no blood), but not moving, obviously dead cause she fell 92874 feet.

A guy in Iron Man did

Granted, it was by his own bullet...

 

[bkey]

There was a decapitation in Prince Caspian and it is only PG

 

[Banquet]

I love the MPAA.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

I love the MPAA.

And clearly what we all mean by the word "love" is "stare blankly and go WTF you useless, pathetic organization..."