The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 3

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]505483[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]503951[/split]

 

[Kanon]

I'd rather not have a high stakes adventure (like I expect from the FF) be set in the past. I would have problems with an Atlantean, Negative Zone invasion, or Galactus, happening (and I want those to happen) pre batlle of New York. Also, there is the matter of the audience investment in those stakes ("oh no! the world is about to end in the sixties!").

 

[Zarex]

I'd rather not have a high stakes adventure (like I expect from the FF) be set in the past. I would have problems with an Atlantean, Negative Zone invasion, or Galactus, happening (and I want those to happen) pre batlle of New York. Also, there is the matter of the audience investment in those stakes ("oh no! the world is about to end in the sixties!").

It's a problem, but it's also a problem if the audience is left asking themselves "Where are the Avengers?" when earth is threatened. Setting them back half a century enables the FF to take the lead and allows for a fresh start for a franchise that desperately needs one.

The Chituari invasion was the first public alien excursion, but we know that the Kree and the Asgardians have been on earth for a much longer period of time. You could have Galactus explained away as a balloon (just like the comics!), and a cold war era Doom tale or a stealth Skrull infestation could work out wonderfully in a 1960s setting. Save the Negative Zone and Atlantean invasions for the time after the team makes the jump to the modern day MCU.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's a problem, but it's also a problem if the audience is left asking themselves "Where are the Avengers?" when earth is threatened. Setting them back half a century enables the FF to take the lead and allows for a fresh start for a franchise that desperately needs one.

The Chituari invasion was the first public alien excursion, but we know that the Kree and the Asgardians have been on earth for a much longer period of time. You could have Galactus explained away as a balloon (just like the comics!), and a cold war era Doom tale or a stealth Skrull infestation could work out wonderfully in a 1960s setting. Save the Negative Zone and Atlantean invasions for the time after the team makes the jump to the modern day MCU.

I think at some point, as the MCU populates itself, we're going to have to accept the comic book reality: The world is always being threatened. Different heroes battle different threats and often don't run into each other in the process . . . presumably because those other heroes are facing their own threats at that moment.

In the lead-up to the first Avengers film, Marvel was able to keep a very small, neat universe. But we're already seeing problems (such as when none of Thor's friends came to help when the Dark Elves attacked).

I just think as fans, if we want to continue to enjoy these films, we're going to have to suspend disbelief regarding the broader implications of the world being frequently endangered and the sometimes illogical response to that by whatever heroes happen to be featured in that film.

If we want faithful comic-book films, we have to believe that people can't recognize that Clark Kent is Superman when he puts glasses on, and we have to accept that individual superheroes or teams face huge threats without all the other heroes rushing to help.

 

[Kanon]

It's a problem, but it's also a problem if the audience is left asking themselves "Where are the Avengers?" when earth is threatened. Setting them back half a century enables the FF to take the lead and allows for a fresh start for a franchise that desperately needs one.

The Chituari invasion was the first public alien excursion, but we know that the Kree and the Asgardians have been on earth for a much longer period of time. You could have Galactus explained away as a balloon (just like the comics!), and a cold war era Doom tale or a stealth Skrull infestation could work out wonderfully in a 1960s setting. Save the Negative Zone and Atlantean invasions for the time after the team makes the jump to the modern day MCU.

Yeah, it could be explained away, or "subtle" events, but that's not what I want in my Fantastic Four. I think their adventures should be very public spectacles, national/global conmotion stuff, front and center, not modest stuff that can be swept under the rug.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yeah, it could be explained away, or "subtle" events, but that's not what I want in my Fantastic Four. I think their adventures should be very public spectacles, national/global conmotion stuff, front and center, not modest stuff that can be swept under the rug.

The battle of new york was the game changer for the population in the mcu. People realised that there were aliens and superheros. If the ff were set in the 60's then all their adventures would have to be swept under the rug.

I want them mixing with the avengers and spider man. It's why i want them as part of the mcu. If not they might as well stay with fox.

 

[Orba]

The battle of new york was the game changer for the population in the mcu. People realised that there were aliens and superheros. If the ff were set in the 60's then all their adventures would have to be swept under the rug.

I want them mixing with the avengers and spider man. It's why i want them as part of the mcu. If not they might as well stay with fox.

True, if they were set in the 60s all there adventures would have to be swept under the rug and hidden from the public. If the public was never allowed to know about them then you could never have them being celebrity heroes.

 

[Dasher10]

In my FF reboot idea (which I've mentioned here multiple times), the FF are in Earth's orbit. Most of the Avengers wouldn't be able to get there in time to stop Annihilus and if he ever touches down on Earth, then it's all over. The Guardians were elsewhere in space and can't be everywhere at once. The Inhumans would get a small cameo where they pass on a message to Medusa about a space station on a collission course for Earth with a life form that they've never seen before but Medusa says to wait the situation out until there are no Earthly being left alive since four of them are currently holding their own and it isn't directly impacting the Inhumans.

In FF2, Doom would have already sparred with first Black Panther and then the Avengers, X-Men and the FF in Secret Wars. He's seeking a very specific revenge on the FF since Reed foiled his plans and the Avengers or X-Men invading Latveria would create a rather nasty international incident and they probably don't even know that something happened to the FF. The Guardians and Inhumans would have even less reason to get involved.

FF3 would involve Galactus and may very well be an, "all hands on deck" situation during the third act but the first two would have the FF meeting Uatu for the first time and hearing tales of Earth's inevitable destruction and then dealing with the Silver Surfer with Reed being the one to negotiate so it would make sense why nobody else would get involved. The third act would have so many heroes on screen that next to none of them would get a speaking line and nearly all (if not all) would be played by stunt doubles. It would just be a glorified photo shoot for much of the cast and only Iron Man and Doctor Strange (and Thunderbolt Ross) would get any sort of lines as they're the only people smart enough to keep up with Reed and Sue (and Ross is the only man with the clout to quickly mobilize Reed getting the resources he needs). Reed would still be doing most of the work when it comes to stopping Galactus.

So remind me how this plan for the FF wouldn't work? Other heroes would be present but the FF would still get the spotlight in their own films.

 

[jaymes_e06]

So any hope of peaceful coexistence between Marvel/Disney and Fox is pretty much out the door. Furthermore I officially think Marvel is no better than Fox on their blocking tactics they use to undermined the franchises and other studio but more importantly the fans. I don't know which studio is worse anymore.

Anyway back to my main point... Larry Houston the much acclaimed director of the X-Men TAS is pretty much confirming that any hope of commiserating between these two battling parties is unlikely. Ironically it was a popular upcoming fan animated series and Marvels subsequent canceling of the project that pushed him to act stating:

As the Director of the 90s X-Men:TAS TV series, I want to applaud your efforts, Joel, and I respect the passion you put into your work. Unfortunately, the Marvel I worked with and the Marvel/Disney (M/D) you've just experienced are not the same company and they are very litigious. A really smart PR department would've found a way to work with you so that their interests are protected and the free publicity you'd generate would be a win-win. But M/D really wants the rights to the X-Men back and your high quality of work and publicity is not what they want to happen at this time. M/D has taken very extreme measures to undercut the franchise, rewriting their comic book mythology to replace the word mutant with Inhuman, in a major power play against Fox. You are now, officially, just part of the collateral damage in the ongoing corporate battle of egos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXx0pk9EthI

Marvel and Disney are just as devilish to the fans as Fox can be and only losing more and more of their souls by the day... wake up people!

 

[Eddie]

Marvel cancelling a "fan series" does not make them the devil. It's their intellectual property. By law they have to protect that intellectual property or risk losing it. That director is full of ****. The most that Disney could have done is, essentially, claim the rights to the fan series themselves and collect all of the ad revenue from it (many companies are doing this to "fan videos" on YouTube, like Nintendo claiming copyright on Let's Play videos).

You can't monetize fan fiction (these videos absolutely try to monetize it with the ad revenue and "donations") and get pissed when somebody protects their copyright.

 

[Dark Raven]

So any hope of peaceful coexistence between Marvel/Disney and Fox is pretty much out the door. Furthermore I officially think Marvel is no better than Fox on their blocking tactics they use to undermined the franchises and other studio but more importantly the fans. I don't know which studio is worse anymore.

Anyway back to my main point... Larry Houston the much acclaimed director of the X-Men TAS is pretty much confirming that any hope of commiserating between these two battling parties is unlikely. Ironically it was a popular upcoming fan animated series and Marvels subsequent canceling of the project that pushed him to act stating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXx0pk9EthI

Marvel and Disney are just as devilish to the fans as Fox can be and only losing more and more of their souls by the day... wake up people!

Why? Has something happened in the last day?

 

[jaymes_e06]

^its my infrencing from Larrys words.

@Eddie:The only reason fan ask for "donations" is to continue putting out the series as many start out of their own pockets.

You are clearly missing the point so let me break it down to you:
Disney have been on a smear campaign ever since FFINO in some ways justified but in others particularly the X-Men franchise they have been truly ruthless replacing them in merchandise and delaying any further plans of animated content based on the X-franchise. This wasn't done because of CR it was done to sandbag a franchise and bully Fox into reverting the rights of both properties currently over there.

 

[metaphysician]

*rollseyes* Gotta love desperate efforts at equivalence.

Anyway, somebody brought up the idea "if you can believe a man can shrink, you can believe the Fantastic Four have not been mentioned yet." This is complete and utter nonsense, a non-sequitur that needs to be pointed out. One matter has to do with physical possibility. The other has to do with logical plausibility. Its roughly analogous to saying "Because we know the Hulk can turn green and grow giant, its perfectly believable that humans actually live to 200 in the MCU." The two things have literally *nothing* to do with each other, and the objections to why one or the other might be impossible have *nothing* to do with each other.

Bluntly, if the Fantastic Four already existed and were active in the present day:

1. Reed Richards would have been mentioned in the context of geniuses and alien invasions, because his specialty is exactly what is relevant for such

2. Aliens showing up in New York City would be nothing close to the same game changer

3. Avengers as celebrities would be nothing close to the same game changer

Yes, this is all the case because Marvel doesn't have the rights, so they couldn't include any references or justifications. And that is the reason *why* the Fantastic Four are not active contemporary heroes. It doesn't change the fact that they are, indeed, not active contemporary heroes. Its like arguing that Buffy is "actually" a Spider-man+ class superhero, her show just doesn't have enough budget to show it. The fact that an OOC influence produces a result, doesn't make the result any less real.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Marvel cancelling a "fan series" does not make them the devil. It's their intellectual property. By law they have to protect that intellectual property or risk losing it. That director is full of ****. The most that Disney could have done is, essentially, claim the rights to the fan series themselves and collect all of the ad revenue from it (many companies are doing this to "fan videos" on YouTube, like Nintendo claiming copyright on Let's Play videos).

You can't monetize fan fiction (these videos absolutely try to monetize it with the ad revenue and "donations") and get pissed when somebody protects their copyright.

Yeah, just basic protection of their characters. If this guy really spent money and didn't anticipate that he could get a cease and desist, he's a fool.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

*rollseyes* Gotta love desperate efforts at equivalence.

Anyway, somebody brought up the idea "if you can believe a man can shrink, you can believe the Fantastic Four have not been mentioned yet." This is complete and utter nonsense, a non-sequitur that needs to be pointed out. One matter has to do with physical possibility. The other has to do with logical plausibility. Its roughly analogous to saying "Because we know the Hulk can turn green and grow giant, its perfectly believable that humans actually live to 200 in the MCU." The two things have literally *nothing* to do with each other, and the objections to why one or the other might be impossible have *nothing* to do with each other.

Bluntly, if the Fantastic Four already existed and were active in the present day:

1. Reed Richards would have been mentioned in the context of geniuses and alien invasions, because his specialty is exactly what is relevant for such

2. Aliens showing up in New York City would be nothing close to the same game changer

3. Avengers as celebrities would be nothing close to the same game changer

Yes, this is all the case because Marvel doesn't have the rights, so they couldn't include any references or justifications. And that is the reason *why* the Fantastic Four are not active contemporary heroes. It doesn't change the fact that they are, indeed, not active contemporary heroes. Its like arguing that Buffy is "actually" a Spider-man+ class superhero, her show just doesn't have enough budget to show it. The fact that an OOC influence produces a result, doesn't make the result any less real.

If you want to hold them to very strict standards as they try the enormous task of building their universe, fine. That's your choice to make.

As for me, when I see things in comic books or films that may be a little shaky, I give it a pass because it's fantasy. Fantasy has to be given a long leash or it all falls apart.

Any one of us could take any 10 minute segment from any Marvel film ever made and shoot 100 holes in it, but I choose to enjoy it rather than analyze or restrict it in that way.

 

[Orba]

Yeah, just basic protection of their characters. If this guy really spent money and didn't anticipate that he could get a cease and desist, he's a fool.

Could be worse, I'm sure I remember reading something about Games Workshop essentially shutdown fansites by blocking them from using any of the Games Workshop trademarked material. So no pictures, logos etc.

 

[Eddie]

Yeah, there are far harsher penalties Disney could go for if they really wanted to. Again, companies like Nintendo and Toei are basically appropriating fan content and automatically collecting the ad revenue from YouTube, many fan works are being shut down (not just X-Men), and more companies are monitoring fan sites to make sure they're doing things by the book. This may be tough to hear, but nobody is entitled to produce things they don't own. Even that lady that wrote Twilight fan fiction about S&M had the sense to change it enough to be an original work (Fifty Shades of Bruises After My Psycho Boyfriend Whipped Me, or some such nonsense).

 

[Orba]

All fan creations are always in a grey area right from the start, technically what they are doing is illegal as they are using the material without the approval of the owner. Fan creations (games, films etc) get shut down all the time so this is hardly new, the times that they are allowed to continue by the owner is tiny compared to the number shut down. There can also be other factors like if there are other disputes over the IP, if a company is trying to show a tight claim to the material then often it does not allow them to ignore any infringement.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

After what Fox did to FF, the thought of Marvel 'bullying' Fox makes me feel like Ken in a Fish Called Wanda:

Wanda: I'm sorry about my brother, Ken. I know he's insensitive. He's had a hard life. Dad used to beat him up.

Ken: Good.

 

[Eddie]

Marvel should bully Fox around after Fant4stic, yeah. That's not what this is, though. This theory is more like suggesting that a shop manager that calls a kid out for stealing a Kit Kat bar is somehow trying to steal the US distribution rights for Kit Kat bars from Hershey.

Ah, entitlement. They're going to have to teach kids about that the same way I had anti drug campaigns and railroad safety when I was in grade school. I weep for the future.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You sound upset and sad and have never said clearly stated anything about my main point or why they have clearly forged ahead to completely leave behind or subside the progress of the X-Men .

1. What have they done recently (since Ike Perlmutter's change in job title) on this front?

2. Why would anyone have a problem with a company that chooses to support products they directly profit from as opposed to supporting products they have licensed to other companies?

 

[jaymes_e06]

1. What have they done recently (since Ike Perlmutter's change in job title) on this front?

2. Why would anyone have a problem with a company that chooses to support products they directly profit from as opposed to supporting products they have licensed to other companies?

My issue is they are neglecting/changing comic history and not putting out new animation tied to a specific and important branch of their universe to spite a company they should be working with to maximize the power of both brands. Instead of egos driving this it should be common sense but it appears there is none on either end. And by the rabidness of some here may never be found because some fans want to fuil the flame

 

[MXG]

I'm confused. Is Disney ordering a cease and desist on the fan fiction a sign that they may have something planned for it?

 

[jaymes_e06]

I'm confused. Is Disney ordering a cease and desist on the fan fiction a sign that they may have something planned for it?

That would certainly be the best reason in an ideal world. I hope so because I was very much looking forward to that show.