• The upgrade to XenForo 2.3.7 has now been completed. Please report any issues to our administrators.

The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Scene Gwen Stacey Died - Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
I dont believe that all Oscorp is doing is to cure Norman.. You cure Norman and then what?What Richard meant about "I discovered what oscorp is using my research for", one of the writers said something about "Human Hibridism" there are bigger things going on and isn't about just to cure Norman..

And Peter blood may be the key to this..
 
I dont believe that all Oscorp is doing is to cure Norman.. You cure Norman and then what?What Richard meant about "I discovered what oscorp is using my research for", one of the writers said something about "Human Hibridism" there are bigger things going on and isn't about just to cure Norman..

And Peter blood may be the key to this..
No, but the primary motivation RIGHT NOW is curing Norman. Otherwise it seems like they are trying to form their Sinister Six, or something else no one has thought of. But the point of the discussion is screen time, so how long will it take to reveal Oscorp's plans?

Peter is going to discover that in his father's hideout, and will most likely be revealed over the course over a few lines from Richard Parker.
 
No, but the primary motivation RIGHT NOW is curing Norman. Otherwise it seems like they are trying to form their Sinister Six, or something else no one has thought of. But the point of the discussion is screen time, so how long will it take to reveal Oscorp's plans?

Peter is going to discover that in his father's hideout, and will most likely be revealed over the course over a few lines from Richard Parker.



Why create S6 ? Kill Spiderman and then what? Unleash hell on earth? I'm telling you Norman isn't their primary objective..

Edit: Oscorp before Norman sickness was doing something "evil",why Richard would leave them?
 
Last edited:
There isn't as much going on as you think, BatDetective. TDK had a lot going on as well and was very well-written. It probably had more going on than TASM2, but we'll see.

Most of the things you list overlap or tie in together, so its not like there is a number of separate plot lines that have to be shoved in together to make a movie. Spider-Man 3's problem was that it had a number of different stories that didn't meld together: Sandman, Harry's revenge, Peter/MJ relationship, the symbiote/Venom, and so on. There was no central story to that film, which was the main issue here.

With TASM2, everything seems to fit together by a puzzle piece. Let's analyze this:

1. Introduction
What do you mean by introduction? How long does it take to introduce a movie? Chances are the intro will contain the plane crash scene, followed by an introduction to Spider-Man (which is most likely the chase sequence that will include Aleksei, so there is your Rhino intro).

I agree with that.

2. You need to develop the Peter-Gwen relationship
You mean further develop it. This is a sequel, so the relationship has been established and somewhat developed already. Half the job is done.

Common mistake but no. The setting is there, yes, so you don't have to create the ''origin''. But you have to build the relationship into a new level. It does take time to make you feel like the connection between those is rising to a higher level. We need to feel like the bond is growing.

3. You need to introduce Harry Osborn
This is key, but also intertwines with the introduction of Norman Osborn, Peter being told about being spied on, and more about his parents.

Introduction doesn't equal interactions. I wanna see Harry coming to New York and getting acquinted with Peter and possibly his relatives. Everything you've mentionned comes later.

4. You need to introduce Maxwell
This intertwines with the opening chase sequence of the movie.

Possibly, but not certain. We need to know who Maxwell is, what he is doing, what kind of relationship he has with others around him.

5. You need to introduce Rhino
As said earlier, being introduced in the introduction.

Well ok, but then what? Does he come back? If he does, you need more screentime than just the intro.

6. You need to *create* Electro
7. You need to *create* The Goblin

Okay, how long are transformations scenes? Barely a few minutes probably.

Minutes matter. They really do. And it's not only about the transformation, but about the context of how it's happening. For example, you set the scene that Maxwell becomes Electro. The accident happens, good. Say 5 minutes.
BUT! He doesn't become the villain YET. We need to know what's going on in his head. We need to know WHY he has decided to turn evil (overlaps with reason as to why he hates Spidey)
Also, after a such accident, Maxwell will likely be taken to hospital or Oscorp so he will learn about his powers. A bit like Doc Ock in Spidey 2.

8. Harry must have a REASON to dislike Peter/kidnap Gwen
That won't be very hard to establish. He probably wants to capture Spider-Man and get something from him, perhaps for research to save his father.

You think so? While I agree with your theory of wanting to save his father, I don't think the rest works. They are supposed to be friends in the first place. They will ''break-up'' at some point, that's for sure. But Harry will have to figure out that Peter Parker IS Spider-Man.

9. Electro needs a REASON to dislike Spider-Man
Yup. He certainly does.

10. You need cool action scenes so people don't die of boredom
We are getting 3-4 action scenes tops, and they don't take up more than 5 minutes each.

Correct but here's one thing: if you do get 3-4 action scenes, multiply it by 5 (minutes) and you get around 20 minutes. That 1/3 of a whole hour. Think about it.

11. You need to find out some things about Peter's past
12. You need to figure out about the whole spying thing

This overlaps with the Harry Osborn scenes.

I'm fine with it. But don't forget about Harry and Felicity Jones.


13. You need to give Aunt May some screentime
She will get it, but how much screen time does she need? 15 minutes overall?

I feel she will get less than 15 minutes. However, if she gets a mere 5 minutes, it does add up to everything else. Every minute counts.

14. You need to learn what Norman's role/motives is/are about
We pretty much learned his motives in the first film, and we'll expand on them some more.

You're half-right. We have a vague idea of what he's up to, but we need to have clearer answers.

15. You need to add that graduating scene
Well if you are just going to start listing specific scenes, of course its going to sound cluttered. How long is a graduation scene? Under 5 minutes probably… not even.

As mentionned before, 5 minutes really matter. You don't add scenes for the sake of adding scenes. Screenwriter's law: Cut the useless crap.
If the scene is there, there's a purpose. It's the trigger of something.

16. Uncle Ben/George Stacy must have at least one scene
George Stacy's scene is the graduation scene. Uncle Ben might show up, but it would be very quick if at all.

I'm ok about it. But it also implies that George will talk to an another character, as a ghost. Thus, the graduation scene might last longer than you think. Next, I would assume that if we get to see George at the beginning, we will see him at the ending. We need to know how his perception has evolved after the events of the movie.

17. You need to develop a relationship between Peter and Harry
Redundant addition to your list.

It's not. In the official synopsis, they say they are friends. I want to know WHY they are friends, how did they know each other. I want CONTEXT. And I wanna see that relationship go wrong because of something. It needs tension, it needs drama, it will take a good while to do the following

-Introducing a friend
-Getting to know what their relationship is about
-The problem occurs
-''Friendship breakup''
-In the end, are they still enemies, or back as friends?

18. You need one (or a few) surprise/twist
I'm sure there will be one or two.

At least, we agree on that.

19. You need to know what are Oscorp's motives
They're trying to cure Norman Osborn.

That's right, but what does it have to do with Peter? And what is the connection between the creation of Super-Villains and Oscorp. They're behind the creation of Rhino and Electro... because they're trying to cure Norman?? Doesn't compute.

20. You need a final battle
You already mentioned fight scenes.

Fight scenes and final battle are VERY DIFFERENT. They are much longer and they often determine the destiny of characters. For example, in the Final Battle, you might have to overlap Harry's death. A final battle is an easy 15 minutes.

21. You need a conclusion
…. Yes, the movie needs to end.

That's a fact, but we need to know what happened to EVERY character. This can be done rather quickly, but it's still worth mentionning. In The Dark Knight Rises, the ''conclusion act'' is starting with the ''death'' of Batman and ends with the credits. It's 5 minutes. 5 minutes DO count.

Commented almost everything.
Trust me, I'm a writer. :)
I will not say what I have done. I don't think it's relevant. I just know my ****, have done some work here and there. I know how movies are written. I know a couple of ''laws''.
But you won't know what my projects are. :)
 
I think the gist of my comments would be that a lot of the things you mentioned overlap. They fit together like a puzzle piece.
 
I will not say what I have done. I don't think it's relevant. I just know my ****, have done some work here and there. I know how movies are written. I know a couple of ''laws''.
But you won't know what my projects are. :)

At the risk of getting warned by the Mods, you come across as a troll. Unless you're willing to offer some proof, you have no right to come in here and go 'I'm a writer and so I'm telling you that they don't have enough time to do all the things that we know they're going to do in this movie'. Either back up your claim of being a writer, or keep your mouth shut.

Edit: Inflammatory wording removed in the interest of restoring civility.
 
Last edited:
The thing is, unless you can back up your claim as being a writer, then its irrelevant. A good writer knows how to balance out a lot of content, and it can be done. I don't think there is anything excessive about TASM2 in terms of how much it has to tell, and I believe than any good writer would agree with that.

I don't want to compare this to "The Godfather," but that movie had A LOT of subplots… I can't even keep track of how many, but the film managed to balance out everything extremely well in 2 hours and 40 minutes, which is probably only going to be about 10-20 minutes longer than TASM2.

However, I think the comment regarding Batdetective as a "troll" was uncalled for. It was HARSH. Very harsh. I'm not sure how much I believe he is a writer, but he can claim to be whatever he wants, but that's fine. If he is lying, then that's on him.
 
Last edited:
At the risk of getting warned by the Mods, you come across as an idiot and a troll. Unless you're willing to offer some proof, you have no right to come in here and go 'I'm a writer and so I'm telling you that they don't have enough time to do all the things that we know they're going to do in this movie'. Either back up your claim of being a writer, or keep your mouth shut.

That wasn't nice, Digific. Uncalled for really. You don't have agree with him or defer to his own judgement about the film. You can do that just as well. But name-calling and aggression is unwarranted. Live and let live and all that good stuff.
 
#Digific

Geez man that was harsh, we started talking about Gwen Death he doesn't came here just to be a troll, you don't need to believe if he is a writer or not but don't lose respect.
 
At the risk of getting warned by the Mods, you come across as an idiot and a troll. Unless you're willing to offer some proof, you have no right to come in here and go 'I'm a writer and so I'm telling you that they don't have enough time to do all the things that we know they're going to do in this movie'. Either back up your claim of being a writer, or keep your mouth shut.

Ouch! Harsh much? I agree that people should show some proof before they start making claims based on 'expertise' or 'knowledge', but I've seen worse on here. That escalated quickly.
 
Yeah, i've seen enough of that on sites and don't want to see it here man, just be civil
This is the only site I like that actually respects people
 
At the risk of getting warned by the Mods, you come across as an idiot and a troll. Unless you're willing to offer some proof, you have no right to come in here and go 'I'm a writer and so I'm telling you that they don't have enough time to do all the things that we know they're going to do in this movie'. Either back up your claim of being a writer, or keep your mouth shut.

Ouch! That was harsh wasn't it?
 
^ He goes and says he's a writer, making his supposed experience relevant to the conversation, and then, when asked about his supposed experience, says 'I'm not going to tell you because it's not relevant'; this makes him sound like an idiot and a troll, so, no, it's not a case of me being overly harsh at all.

One more thing: Before anyone accuses me of having done the same thing regarding the spoiler info I had relayed to me in private, I verbally promised to not disclose the specific information I was given, which is an entirely different situation than some noob coming in here claiming to be a writer yet refusing to offer proof to back that claim up when fairly asked to do so.
 
^ He goes and says he's a writer, making his supposed experience relevant to the conversation, and then, when asked about his supposed experience, says 'I'm not going to tell you because it's not relevant'; this makes him sound like an idiot and a troll.

Before anyone accuses me of having done the same thing regarding the spoiler info I had relayed to me in private, I verbally promised to not disclose the specific information I was given, which is an entirely different situation than some noob coming in here claiming to be a writer yet refusing to offer proof to back that claim up when fairly asked to do so.
I don't actually buy that he is a writer, and I don't care for people trying to back up their opinions by claiming to be writers either without proof. But you could have called him out on it in a nicer way, that's all.
 
So you think it all works out in a 2h30 runtime? It makes sense?
That's all I wanted to hear.

So, after this 2h30 movie with all the puzzle pieces put together and everything...
DO YOU THINK YOU CAN SQUEEZE GWEN'S DEATH SOMEWHERE?

There's a screenwriter (inaccurate) law that says 1 minute = 1 page.
Scripts have between 90-120 pages, general rule.
By having a movie of 2h30, it means you have a 150 page script, which is well above average. Meaning that it IS crowded to some degree.
With all that, CAN YOU EFFECTIVELY and REALISTICLY kill Gwen Stacy?

Reminder, she is a MAIN character. It is NOT the same thing as George, it is NOT the same thing as Uncle Ben. Her death, CANNOT be done under similar circumstances or with similar treatment. If it has to happen, it must be impactful, heart-grasping and powerful.
The scene in itself might not take many pages/minutes. However, it's the delivery that matters, in that context. It's ''lots of information''.
So you have the long epic battle with Electro, everything is very intense. Spidey and Gwen win.
Now, Harry kidnaps Gwen, here comes the clock tower part.
Gwen is in danger. Spidey has to save her, while fighting Harry Goblin.

Lots of stuff are happening at the same time. Can you imagine having the second most important character of the movie series getting killed RIGHT HERE?

Of course, having her in danger at that moment creates an epic thrill. But her death? Would it add anything? Say she does dies. Peter break down and cries, fight Goblin to death in a very violent fight, almost killing him.
You think that's great writing?

That's lazy and easy writing.
You know what clever writing is?

Take the same exact context. Gwen is inside the clock tower. Let's say that at midnight, the building breaks down and it would kill her.
Spider-Man tries to save her, but keeps getting interrupted by Goblin Harry. The idea of having a fight with limited time would be brillant in that context.
The clock tower is just a perfect choice.
The thrill of HEARING every single clocking noise when Spidey is fighting Harry would give you chills. Spidey would have to hurry up, because Tick-Tock, time is running out.
The concept is magnificiant. Sure feels a little déjà-vu, but still excellent, me thinks.
Of course, if it's going to happen this way, I expect Spider-Man to save Gwen. Because if he doesn't... It's going to be terrible.

Delivering the most important battle of your life with your once-best-friend-now enemy while your girlfriend is in danger. You WIN but kicking the villain's ass but... What if he doesn't save her after the big battle?
ALL THAT ****ING **** FOR A BIG RED ''YOU'VE LOST, GAME OVER!''

Ughhhhhh... Terrible, terrible idea. It has to be the worst possible ending in the world.
 
Just skimming the thread, is Batdetective saying that gwen shouldn't die in two because of the whole trilogy thing?

2nd chapters can end on a down note, and then the 3rd deals with the fallout.

So, have gwen die at the end of tasm2, and have spider-man vs. the goblin as tasm3. I honestly think that makes far more sense and allows for a satisfying conclusion, as opposed to gwen dying at the end of the third movie because it is the "biggest event"

again, just skim read, so i apologise if i misinterpreted your post, Batdetective.

PS. I don't think Digific was being too harsh. I mean, if you allow someone to win arguments simply by saying "I'm a writer", things will get bad, fast. No one wins here. Reasons are paramount when backing up opinions, not one's status.
 
#Digific

Okay but all of his arguments when discussing with Picard make sense(Picard too), if he was a troll he would wrote ******** and that isn't the case.
 
Oy Vey! I'm with Spideyfan117, just live and let live. No need to resort to name calling over this.
 
A bad ending is not the same thing as a sad or poignant ending... I know this because I am a writer. Don't ask me for proof though because you won't get it.

Okay, I'm not a writer, but my point still remains.
 
So you think it all works out in a 2h30 runtime? It makes sense?
That's all I wanted to hear.

So, after this 2h30 movie with all the puzzle pieces put together and everything...
DO YOU THINK YOU CAN SQUEEZE GWEN'S DEATH SOMEWHERE?

There's a screenwriter (inaccurate) law that says 1 minute = 1 page.
Scripts have between 90-120 pages, general rule.
By having a movie of 2h30, it means you have a 150 page script, which is well above average. Meaning that it IS crowded to some degree.
With all that, CAN YOU EFFECTIVELY and REALISTICLY kill Gwen Stacy?

Reminder, she is a MAIN character. It is NOT the same thing as George, it is NOT the same thing as Uncle Ben. Her death, CANNOT be done under similar circumstances or with similar treatment. If it has to happen, it must be impactful, heart-grasping and powerful.
The scene in itself might not take many pages/minutes. However, it's the delivery that matters, in that context. It's ''lots of information''.
So you have the long epic battle with Electro, everything is very intense. Spidey and Gwen win.
Now, Harry kidnaps Gwen, here comes the clock tower part.
Gwen is in danger. Spidey has to save her, while fighting Harry Goblin.

Lots of stuff are happening at the same time. Can you imagine having the second most important character of the movie series getting killed RIGHT HERE?

Of course, having her in danger at that moment creates an epic thrill. But her death? Would it add anything? Say she does dies. Peter break down and cries, fight Goblin to death in a very violent fight, almost killing him.
You think that's great writing?

That's lazy and easy writing.
You know what clever writing is?

Take the same exact context. Gwen is inside the clock tower. Let's say that at midnight, the building breaks down and it would kill her.
Spider-Man tries to save her, but keeps getting interrupted by Goblin Harry. The idea of having a fight with limited time would be brillant in that context.
The clock tower is just a perfect choice.
The thrill of HEARING every single clocking noise when Spidey is fighting Harry would give you chills. Spidey would have to hurry up, because Tick-Tock, time is running out.
The concept is magnificiant. Sure feels a little déjà-vu, but still excellent, me thinks.
Of course, if it's going to happen this way, I expect Spider-Man to save Gwen. Because if he doesn't... It's going to be terrible.

Delivering the most important battle of your life with your once-best-friend-now enemy while your girlfriend is in danger. You WIN but kicking the villain's ass but... What if he doesn't save her after the big battle?
ALL THAT ****ING **** FOR A BIG RED ''YOU'VE LOST, GAME OVER!''

Ughhhhhh... Terrible, terrible idea. It has to be the worst possible ending in the world.

I'm not sure you really understand how screenwriting works.

Just skimming the thread, is Batdetective saying that gwen shouldn't die in two because of the whole trilogy thing?

2nd chapters can end on a down note, and then the 3rd deals with the fallout.

So, have gwen die at the end of tasm2, and have spider-man vs. the goblin as tasm3. I honestly think that makes far more sense and allows for a satisfying conclusion, as opposed to gwen dying at the end of the third movie because it is the "biggest event"

again, just skim read, so i apologise if i misinterpreted your post, Batdetective.

I agree with this.

PS. I don't think Digific was being too harsh. I mean, if you allow someone to win arguments simply by saying "I'm a writer", things will get bad, fast. No one wins here. Reasons are paramount when backing up opinions, not one's status.

True. Like I said, it was fine to call him out on it, but I think there is a nicer way of doing so.
 
I don't think Digific was being too harsh. I mean, if you allow someone to win arguments simply by saying "I'm a writer", things will get bad, fast. No one wins here. Reasons are paramount when backing up opinions, not one's status.

Thank you, Repulsor.

Moving on, all the evidence we currently have points very strongly to Gwen dying, and nobody has yet offered any credible reasoning to refute that idea.
 
PS. I don't think Digific was being too harsh. I mean, if you allow someone to win arguments simply by saying "I'm a writer", things will get bad, fast. No one wins here. Reasons are paramount when backing up opinions, not one's status.



Questioning the validity of someone's claim does not necessarily entail being rude about it. Using language like 'idiot' on a site that's intended for civil discussion is inappropriate.
 
Thank you, Repulsor.

Moving on, all the evidence we currently have points very strongly to Gwen dying, and nobody has yet offered any credible reasoning to refute that idea.
While I do believe she is more than likely to die, it isn't all that insane to think she will survive either. Still on the fence with that one.
 
Questioning the validity of someone's claim does not necessarily entail being rude about it. Using language like 'idiot' on a site that's intended for civil discussion is inappropriate.
Yeah. Like I was saying, its fine to call someone out on something if you think they're lying, but to resort to words "idiot" is just mean.

However, its no excuse to say, "I'm a writer. I know what I'm talking about, that's how I can back up and and argue my posts."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"