The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 105

[kthevs]

I disagree with this. I want this to be a finale, I just don't think you need to do that by killing the hero/having him quit. Its boring.

And I don't know where the whole "This is a curse" thing came from. He isn't Spider-Man, this wasn't something thrust upon him. He chose to become Batman, he chose to kill Harvy Dent and I think he will choose to remain as Batman.

How active he would need to be is the question. Obviously, it appears Gotham has been peaceful and Bruce Wayne wont have needed to put on the cowl for a while at the start of this film but he needed to and appears to do it grudgingly. So, again, having him quit at the end just doesn't work because he had already quit at the start of the film!

Nolan knows you don't have characters not grow/change over the course of the story. If Bruce starts off being "retired" then he isn't going to go back to being "retired" at the end of the film because that means nothing changed!

If Bane beats Batman to the near point of death, then having Batman die at the end will seem anticlimatic. I think a "death" ending is more likely than a "retirement" ending because it COULD work, but it is still a copout.

He needs to either die or retire as Batman and get a normal life. Just continuing to be Batman till he's a grisly old man and never having a wife or children or any normalcy... that would just be too pathetic of an ending.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Okay... I'm convinced.

 

[kthevs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awsAEmHWZ2A

This will be the ending of TDKR. Everything comes full circle.

 

[Norek]

OMG OMG JGL is both Batman AND Joker?!?!?

OMG OMG Mind = Blown!

 

[joker1524]

and Tom Hardy was in Prometheus

 

[Rapunzel]

We have to blame the B89-B&R era for that.

More like the ever rotating world of the incredible hulk.

But my sis also asked why Spidey wasn't in TA. And then when I mentioned Rises later she querried that Bats should have been in TA too. I had to give a 10 minute mini-lecture on the diff between JL and TA.

That's the kinda GA going to these movies people It's no wonder they always go back to orgin stories.

 

[WVsax27]

More than likely the R in the sign was just Nolan having a little fun

no, an extra made the sign. Nolan had nothing to do with it.

 

[gorillanesthsia]

CW doesn't kill Bane.

CW leaves City Hall to chase after Tate who is driving the HEMMT with the "device".

Gordon doesn't die either.

He just comes close to dieing after almost drowning.

 

[Avengers-Report]

The only fuel for Robin is the sign at the football game :http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=14kp2ehi1&sigi=12jkjpgkb&.crumb=dLzZAuXYMwf

Look at the R.

That was just a fan. Think about the controversy he has caused haha.

 

[joker1524]

More like the ever rotating world of the incredible hulk.

But my sis also asked why Spidey wasn't in TA. And then when I mentioned Rises later she querried that Bats should have been in TA too. I had to give a 10 minute mini-lecture on the diff between JL and TA.

That's the kinda GA going to these movies people It's no wonder they always go back to orgin stories.

yeah when i took my mom to go see the Avengers, right after the film she was asking how come spiderman, superman and Batman werent in it lol...even asked about the Flash too lol

 

[Avengers-Report]

CW doesn't kill Bane.

CW leaves City Hall to chase after Tate who is driving the HEMMT with the "device".

Gordon doesn't die either.

He just comes close to dieing after almost drowning.

How does that mean Catwoman doesn't kill Bane? Maybe Talia runs after Bane is killed by Catwoman?

 

[Norek]

But my sis also asked why Spidey wasn't in TA

It's interesting because people always assume The Avengers is just a combo film of all the Marvel characters out there. Unlike the JLA, the Avengers are their own team, and while many characters have been members at certain points, they're still a team and not a League. I'm personally NO to Spider-Man in the Avengers.

 

[joker1524]

i honestly dont see bats killing bane but i hope bane doesnt get killed by tate because she finds no more use for him lol

 

[gorillanesthsia]

How does that mean Catwoman doesn't kill Bane? Maybe Talia runs after Bane is killed by Catwoman?

We've already seen Bane's demise, you just don't know it yet.

No.. she doesn't kill Bane. Besides, do you really think Nolan will have that as the demise of his last villain? Just CW shoots him because Batman won't break his rule? That's dumb.

She isn't even there, she leaves when the battle is still heated. Now, her killing Tate might not be far off...

John Blake doesn't die either.

 

[Charlie No-One]

More than likely the R in the sign was just Nolan having a little fun

No I was there for the filming of that. It is purely a fan sign that someone made. No one in the crew had any part of that. I made a sign that said Grayson on it as if he was a player for the Gotham Rogues too.

 

[Avengers-Report]

We've already seen Bane's demise, you just don't know it yet.

No.. she doesn't kill Bane. Besides, do you really think Nolan will have that as the demise of his last villain? Just CW shoots him because Batman won't break his rule? That's dumb.

She isn't even there, she leaves when the battle is still heated. Now, her killing Tate might not be far off...

John Blake doesn't die either.

Maybe there is a back story to the relationship between Catwoman and Bane? She has a personal vendetta against him? And comes over and kills him after he is defeated by Batman?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, you just act like you've already seen the movie.

 

[Sharkboy]

I disagree with this. I want this to be a finale, I just don't think you need to do that by killing the hero/having him quit. Its boring.

Anymore boring than him looking over gotham ready to fight another day? Haven't seen that before.

And I don't know where the whole "This is a curse" thing came from. He isn't Spider-Man, this wasn't something thrust upon him. He chose to become Batman, he chose to kill Harvy Dent and I think he will choose to remain as Batman.

He chooses because he is the only one who can, The fate of gotham rests on their own shoulders but the only one who could serve as an example to follow is him, you think he wants to be doing this? You think he enjoys not having a family, or a normal life? This isn't the comics, this is a finite mission, he wants to save gotham not police it.

How active he would need to be is the question. Obviously, it appears Gotham has been peaceful and Bruce Wayne wont have needed to put on the cowl for a while at the start of this film but he needed to and appears to do it grudgingly. So, again, having him quit at the end just doesn't work because he had already quit at the start of the film!

Gotham isn't in real peace, it makes no sense narratively to have Bruce accomplish what he wants and for the story to continue, the aim of the story is to get at the goal and gotham and bruce are far from it. This isn't real peace it's a fragile one which Bane breaks with a couple of words and a couple of explosions and in turn starts a war. The idea isn't to go back to that fake peace, the idea is to finally create a real one, and the only way for that to happen is for things to get much much worse.

Nolan knows you don't have characters not grow/change over the course of the story. If Bruce starts off being "retired" then he isn't going to go back to being "retired" at the end of the film because that means nothing changed!

If gotham is in fake peace, so is Bruce, all those shots of Bruce looking worn down, tired, hurt, he is not in a happy place when this film starts, this is more about healing and saving gotham, its about saving his soul from the monster that was born when his parents died.

If Bane beats Batman to the near point of death, then having Batman die at the end will seem anticlimatic. I think a "death" ending is more likely than a "retirement" ending because it COULD work, but it is still a copout.

If bane beats batman near to death, then bane beats him again and kills him then its a copout. This is more than just life and death, this is much more they are fighting for the future of Gotham. Bruce sacrificing his life and becoming a martyr for gotham city is different to Bane defeating Batman. They mean completely different things on a much deeper level rather than the simple paper thin...."duhhhh batman dies or batman lives"

 

[Rogzilla]

"Hey guys, we're ending the trilogy."

"Yes, we're ending the trilogy."

"Really, we're ending the trilogy. No more."

"Yes, and the ending is gonna be critical. We've planned it since the last two films."

*Shot of Batman on the skyscraper*

Audience: Wait a minute... that's it? Couldn't you have like... showed Batman doing that in Begins? Or TDK?

Nolan: Hope you enjoyed it. This is the end of Batman's adventures, not with a period, but an ellipses

Audience: Like the last two films?

Nolan: Four years of planning! Enjoy the new director's vision. Now to work on my Bond film.

...Yeah, I really don't see the point of this.

That's the end of Nolan's Batman, yes. Why does death have to be the only finale? Why does nothing changing (going from being retired to being retired) sound better?

The specific proposed ending was hyperbole, to emphasize an "emotional" ending. I like to give the Brothers Nolan more credit than "We can't make it moving, so let's kill off Batman! YAY!"

And why couldn't they show it at the end of the previous films? Well, we did see something similar at the end of Begins, with Batman flying away from Gordon. We also saw something similar at the end of The Dark Knight, with Batman...driving away from Gordon. Always running. Running from what he is, what he needs to be.

I like the idea of an ending to the story is that Batman accepts that. He doesn't run, but stands proudly as he has saved Gotham. He doesn't need to be running around every night to still be Batman, he just needs to accept that he always will be and find peace with that.

 

[Street Vendor]

CW doesn't kill Bane.

CW leaves City Hall to chase after Tate who is driving the HEMMT with the "device".

Gordon doesn't die either.

He just comes close to dieing after almost drowning.

He also nearly chokes on the steak he shares with Bane in Wayne Manor.

 

[Travesty]

The only fuel for Robin is the sign at the football game :http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=14kp2ehi1&sigi=12jkjpgkb&.crumb=dLzZAuXYMwf

Look at the R.

A Hype member did that.

Yeah, I think it was DarkKnight7.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

I think a Gotham not needing Batman anymore is what will make Bruce happy since that means that he has finally done his job.

This is exatly what I think (and wish) will happen.

To be honest, if you're a member of the press and have signed up just to leak spoilers and also to be anonymous, I dont think it's neccessary to have some sort of long standing history on a message board but that's just me. Plenty of our moles from WB have been newbies.

True. There was this guy on Nolanfans who was the first one to report that the Prologue will be attached to Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol and nobody believed him since I think that was his first post. Of course, it was later reported to be true and the people apologised to him for not believing this 'newbie'.

 

[Norek]

Travesty, regarding your sig, isn't it supposed to be "stay away" from me?

 

[gorillanesthsia]

Maybe there is a back story to the relationship between Catwoman and Bane? She has a personal vendetta against him? And comes over and kills him after he is defeated by Batman?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, you just act like you've already seen the movie.

No, I haven't seen the movie. And I don't think I'm acting like it.

I'm just really confident those things aren't going to happen based on all that we have seen and based on logic.

People think Gordon will die because he is a hospital bed...

Spoiler

but that is because he almost drowned at the hands of Bane and saved by John Blake

. He is begging Batman to come back, well, we have footage all over the place of Batman with Gordon. So he doesn't die in the hospital because he is around with Batman comes back. Towards the end of the movie

Spoiler

which is the City Hall scene

, it climaxes with CW chasing the Tumblers and the HEMMT that has the bomb and Gordon is climbing all over the HEMMT. He doesn't die then

Spoiler

because we have footage of Batman and CW kissing and Batman trying to take the device and Gordon is at that scene too.

CW doesn't kill Bane

Spoiler

because his mask gets broken and Catwoman has already left to chase Tate because Batman is busy still fighting

. Plus all the reasons I already said.

The reason why John Blake is said to die is because the scene in which his hands are up. This is when Judge pushes him down but later in the film we see him the police car chase where his car does crash but he doesn't die there either. So when will he die? And why would such a big name star just die for seemingly a lame reason? John Blake will be there at the end

Spoiler

to take over where Gordon leaves off

.

Batman/Bruce Wayne will not die either.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

Couple of pages late, but I may as well chip in:
I doubt the ending will be Batman standing on that bridge like we've seen in the trailers. Yes, BB and TDK both had their ending shots in trailers, but with how tightly wrapped the ending of TDKR is, I think it's something that they want people to feel compeltely fresh about.
It won't be Bruce & Alfred in Venice or wherever that scene was meant to be set. I can't see Bruce spending a decade risking his life for Gotham only to desert it once Bane kicks it. More likely to be Bruce and Alfred after he breaks out of the prison and before they arrive back in Gotham.
I also don't think that it will be Bruce & Selina going off into the sunset together to have hideous leather-winged feline children either, I think if Tate does actually turn out to be Talia and isn't just elaborate misdirection by Nolan, it will be more likely that she and Bruce will go off together. Although I can't really picture Nolan pulling out the exact same plot twist he had in BB.

 

[kthevs]

That's the end of Nolan's Batman, yes. Why does death have to be the only finale? Why does nothing changing (going from being retired to being retired) sound better?

The specific proposed ending was hyperbole, to emphasize an "emotional" ending. I like to give the Brothers Nolan more credit than "We can't make it moving, so let's kill off Batman! YAY!"

And why couldn't they show it at the end of the previous films? Well, we did see something similar at the end of Begins, with Batman flying away from Gordon. We also saw something similar at the end of The Dark Knight, with Batman...driving away from Gordon. Always running. Running from what he is, what he needs to be.

I like the idea of an ending to the story is that Batman accepts that. He doesn't run, but stands proudly as he has saved Gotham. He doesn't need to be running around every night to still be Batman, he just needs to accept that he always will be and find peace with that.

Bruce cannot be batman for the rest of his adult life. That would be no devopment or growth to the character at all. He need to prove Rachel wrong. He needs to prove that a day will come where he no longer needs to be Batman. He either has to die or retire and have a normal life. This is not the comics or the cartoons where he and Catwoman and Gordan and everyone will always be the same and never mature. The retirement at the start of the movie has him being lonely and depressed. The retirement at the end should be about having peace and finally being happy.