The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 105

[jonnywhc]

It's the end of June and we're coming up to the film in exactly a month's time, why on earth would you be browsing this spoiler section if you're afraid of such light spoilers? No offense.

Less than a month

And hey I like this section lol..MEGA spoilers should always be in tags, I think. Im staying in the tusi..better be no spoilers in there

 

[Nevincer]

I agree that mega spoilers should be in tags, I just don't agree that it's a mega one... I know there'll be "that guy" that comes along in a few weeks anyway which is why I'll be taking some time off before I see the film. Saying that, this "new policy" is gonna suck if it becomes an excuse to probate members if they slip up that [blackout]Talia[/blackout] is in the movie for example. Something the regulars are kind of sure of by now, so no need to hide it if you follow this place.

 

[Reek]

and

Spoiler

Bane erasing everyones debt etc

is something I have never heard before and to me thats something I'd rather see for myself then read it on here when a simple 'blackout' or 'spoiler tag' could have been used.


Call me nitpicky...

 

[gugumugats]

^ Yeah, I thought this was the spoiler section. What's the exact policy anyways?

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this passage from the article at the bottom of page 2 of the Gotham Observer:"including an entirely new wing dedicated to youth reading programs, donated by Wayne Enterprises as part of its internal objective of creating an array of improvements for Gotham City residents". To me, this definitely suggests that Bruce has started undertaking some philanthropic efforts of his own in the meantime...or maybe it's Miranda's doing. Hmm...

 

[Reek]

Well, I guess that is my cue to stay out of these forums until I see the film. Tusi time.

 

[goth ham]

Well, I guess that is my cue to stay out of these forums until I see the film. Tusi time.

No offense, but I think it is nitpicky to want spoiler tags in the spoiler forum. It can be mistaken that you are just out looking for a quarrel...

 

[The Apocalypse]

Less than a month

And hey I like this section lol..MEGA spoilers should always be in tags, I think. Im staying in the tusi..better be no spoilers in there

Just saying, it's common courtesy to put it in spoiler tags. Clearly it's a spoiler section but this is where the discussion is at but you don't have to reveal stuff that is going on in the plot.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this passage from the article at the bottom of page 2 of the Gotham Observer:"including an entirely new wing dedicated to youth reading programs, donated by Wayne Enterprises as part of its internal objective of creating an array of improvements for Gotham City residents". To me, this definitely suggests that Bruce has started undertaking some philanthropic efforts of his own in the meantime...or maybe it's Miranda's doing. Hmm...

After reading that, for some reason, I feel it's Tate's doing.

 

[Sharkboy]

There are no real spoilers, just speculation, we really don't know much other than what the trailers have given us. When people actually see the film, then the spoiler rules go into effect.

For those truly worried about spoilers, there is a non-spoiler forum that is rarely used.

 

[SpiderFX]

Just a thought - Has anybody here noticed the similarities TDKR has to Frank Millers Dark Knight Returns? I remember somebody saying how they didn't like that scene with the 2 cops in the car,one commenting "Kid,you are in for a show tonight!".

Just started re-reading the novel,and it's straight out of there. Plus, in the movie there is the 8 year absence of Batman. In the book,while Bruce is much older,it's 10 years.Bane's "army",whoever they consist of could be Nolans take on the Mutants,with Bane Leading them. Gotham in it's absolute worst shape ever,bringing Bruce out of retirement? Also sounds like the book.I know Nolan has always taken elements from TDKR and Year One, but I just found it interesting. Maybe the closest we'll ever get to an adaptation of Dark Knight Returns.

Thoughts?

I know it'd NEVER happen,but I'd love to see Miranda Tate turn out to be the female Robin,pissing off millions of people,and at the very end, Supes shows up for a cameo and gets his ass handed to him by Batman.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Just a thought - Has anybody here noticed the similarities TDKR has to Frank Millers Dark Knight Returns? I remember somebody saying how they didn't like that scene with the 2 cops in the car,one commenting "Kid,you are in for a show tonight!".

Just started re-reading the novel,and it's straight out of there. Plus, in the movie there is the 8 year absence on Batman. In the book,while Bruce is much older,it's 10 years.I know Nolan has always taken elements from TDKR and Year One, but I just found it interesting. Maybe the closest we'll ever get to an adaptation of Dark Knight Returns.

Thoughts?

I think most of us have seen the similarities by now.

 

[nemapasara]

Yeah, I already feel like this thread is starting to provide more info than I want and the speculation is starting to feel real. I don't want to read nothing else and watch anything else until I actually watch the movie. Hopefully, my terrible memory will work and I'll forget everything I read in this thread.

So I guess it's goodbye to this thread for now.

 

[Blue Sugar]

One who doesn't like that "Kid, you are in for a show tonight" line is too stiff!

 

[Travesty]

JMaybe the closest we'll ever get to an adaptation of Dark Knight Returns.

The animated movie will be out soon, so that'll definitely be the closest we'll get.

 

[SpiderFX]

Yeah, I know. Looking forward to that. Thrilled it's a 2-parter and all,but I was referring to a live action adaptation.

 

[SpiderFX]

Crap. Is somebody going to spoil/**** the ending up for everyone here?? God, I hope not. That happened with me once for "Million Dollar Baby",but never for a movie like this. So strange how this film and it's ending is the most anticipated thing about it. I never went into any Spider-Man or previous Batman film thinking " Man,how will they end this??!" to the point of being driven crazy.

 

[Doomofman]

It's a spoiler forum for the love of god. There's a non spoiler forum if you want to avoid spoilers.. I swear I just can't understand people who come onto a spoiler forum and ***** about spoilers

 

[Travesty]

Maybe some of you should go over to BOF. They have a very strict "no spoilers in the spoiler section" policy.

 

[Kansiov]

One who doesn't like that "Kid, you are in for a show tonight" line is too stiff!

To be honest, those cheesy lines didn't really bother me that much in TDK... I just thought the actor who delivered it was really terrible. I really wish they would get better extras to do dialogue scenes this time, the terrible acting nearly ruined the boat scene in TDK for me.

 

[Excel]

It's a spoiler forum for the love of god. There's a non spoiler forum if you want to avoid spoilers.. I swear I just can't understand people who come onto a spoiler forum and ***** about spoilers

"Spoilers!?! In the spoiler section1?! YOU DON'T SAY!"

 

[SpiderFX]

It's a spoiler forum for the love of god. There's a non spoiler forum if you want to avoid spoilers.. I swear I just can't understand people who come onto a spoiler forum and ***** about spoilers

It's the temptation of the spoilers that frighten me. I love them, and hate them. I'm not complaining about 'em. There are certain things I want to know beforehand (such as everything posted thus far),but the ending? No way. A valid worry is that out of nowhere,like in the Merchandise thread or something,some ass will ambush it with the main spoiler.

 

[Sharkboy]

Maybe some of you should go over to BOF. They have a very strict "no spoilers in the spoiler section" policy.

Beware,

You have to apply for the "privilege" to post in Jett's elite board, you need written proof to him and the "board manager" that you "fit" enough to serve in his kingdom.

I wish this was a joke.

 

[Jedm1991]

Are people complaining about spoilers again?

 

[Godmaul]

Alright so I've been thinking a lot about the Rykin technology information we were given from the Mountain Dew website, and I think my random trains of thought have stumbled upon a common thread that this iteration of Nolan's batman saga has in common with his first film (BB).

I'm going to put this in spoiler tags, because I agree with Corey and think its important that those of us who want to explore these ideas before the film comes out use the tags in order to not spoil it by delving into the emotion behind the films. I think I may have thought of something that Nolan is trying to explore with the emotions in this final installment, and because emotion is a large reason all of us are so passionate about the subject at hand as well as a reason behind us going to see movies to begin with - I think its appropriate that I tag it.

Read at your own risk, feel free to call me an idiot if you think I'm completely off target with this:

Spoiler

So, I'll start with where I got confused and why I followed this train of thought to begin with. Ever since we've seen the photographs of the attack on the stock exchange I've been left with this lingering feeling of, "Yeah, but why?"

What could Bane's reasoning behind attacking the stock exchange possibly be? We know he kidnapped Pavel and faked Pavel's death with the blood transfusion machine in prologue, so we've always felt like Bane's major threat to Gotham involved some type of Thermo Nuclear device or a doomsday weapon. We extrapolated this because in some of the documents released during the Prologue event had details regarding Pavel's occupation on them. Granted, I don't have them in front of me now and can't remember exactly what it was he did for employment, but I think I'm close enough to suit my purpose.

If Bane is just going to blow up or decimate Gotham with some doomsday device that Pavel helps him build, then what the hell is the point of attacking the stock exchange? To get at the rich members of society right away? And, I personally think that the attack on the exchange might be one of his first appearances in Gotham altogether. So why start there? It just didn't add up to me, there was something we were missing. We got the missing piece with the Rykin information today.

If you think about it, any stock exchange is almost always the fiscal epicenter of any major metropolis (See also: Wall street). Another thing the stock exchange does, is give you some sort of route to the major financial players in any city - assuming you have a tool to access their records and information. With this new development from Rykin Technologies, I think we know why he attacks the stock exchange.

If he brings his program from Rykin (however he gets it, thats not the point of this post) to the stock exchange and is able to gain access to the financial background, important fiscal documents and accounts for the rich members of Gotham's society, then he can use that technology to wipe their digital fingerprints from any database they might be tucked in. Complete equality at the stroke of a key, perhaps?

Bane has always been marketed as a match for Batman not only in physique but also in mental capacity - and he's been billed as a genius from some reports that we've read (I think!?). Bane understands that destroying Gotham physically is a very temporary solution to a very permanent problem. Eventually, the people with money will find a way to prove they have wealth and the ability to rebuild Gotham - and they'll start the rebuilding process. They could even end up building Gotham back in their image, which to Bane - may be even worse than it originally was before he leveled all of the buildings.
Could this also be the reason construction sites are being vandalized per the newspaper article? To delay the rebuilding inevitably? The idea about the reasoning behind the construction sites being tampered with is a pretty thin line of thought, but I'm going to throw it out there and see what sticks.

He isn't willing to let that rebuilding happen. He needs a solution...something final. Using the Rykin program, he can destroy whatever digital image every citizen of Gotham has - or at least any citizen who has something to lose, that is. We also know that Batman gives chase to a thug on a motorcycle who we believe was present at the stock exchange attack, and that the thug has a computer-esque or tablet device that Batman investigates. Could this be related to the Rykin technology? I'm going to go out on a limb and say probably.

I think the thing that stuck out to me, is that without a digital identity (especially in this decade) members of society essentially stop becoming identifiable people. Think of it, our social security cards, our birth certificates, license plate numbers, registrations, businesses, taxes, homes, etc - everything is stored digitally. While this grants us a relative amount of comfort and convenience, it leaves us extremely vulnerable to this type of attack with Rykin.

I'm going to jump topic briefly and then come back to Rykin and the loss of digital identity - please try to stay with me, I understand this is a bit convoluted.

The film has always been pitched as a 'war' film. The gritty, war torn overtones in pictures and the various trailers have supported this. However, in any war you have two sides. I've constantly thought how is Nolan going to identify sides in his Batman 'war' film? What are they fighting over? Granted, I know that the criminals (for the most part) are going to side with Bane and the police will side with Batman in the final conflict over Gotham's soul, but I think in typical Nolan fashion - there is more at work here than at first there seems to be.

I also started thinking about the reasons we fight wars in general. Typically, we fight over property and rights, land and money, wealth and privelage. Specifically the right to retain that privelage and property or take someone else's that you don't rightfully own or deserve. But all in all, that's a pretty thin logic (even if its accurate) and surely Nolan must have something more interesting for us to bite into than just what shows at face value.

So, if Bane destroys Gotham physically with his doomsday device, and wipes out all of the digital identities of all of the members of Gotham's society - then what do they have left to fight for? Wait for it....

Their ideals.

Nolan's films have dealt in extremes most of the time, or at least shown a very extreme point of view in some variation. In this type of film, I can't help but think that most wealthy human beings identify themselves by what they own, or the cars they drive, or the jobs they have, or the boats they don't need, etc. Conversely, most poor human beings in Nolan's universe probably identify themselves by what they don't have; comfort, shelter, food, basic human amenities. Granted, this could be viewed as accurate for the world a lot of us live in today, but I don't want to label people as Rich or Poor in real life because that's not the way I personally think.

What if you take away everything both the rich and poor use to identify themselves? You take away the buildings, the cars, the homes, the credit cards, the bank account statements, the checkbooks, the financial records, etc. What are folks left with? They're barely even human beings anymore, folks. They stop being men and women, at least not to themselves or anyone around them in the same predicament. All they have left is what they believe in.

If they aren't men and women....they aren't corruptible. They act in accordance with what they believe at a very base human level. They stop being effected by outside influences, they become personifications....or...

.....Symbols. "Ideals, Mr. Wayne."

And I think that's where Nolan is drawing his war movies' battle lines. Bringing it all full circle for us, back to the roots of what drove Bruce to become Batman. Where the people that live in Gotham stop becoming John, or Selina, or Miranda - where they are all just simply a 'citizen of Gotham' standing behind whoever's ideals they find more relatable; Bane's or Batman's.

If Bane uses Rykin on Gotham, he steals it's identity. And Batman, acting as the symbol that he's become - the beacon of hope for the citizens trapped in Gotham to take their city back by force - leads the good people of Gotham against the tyrants who would seek to see it destroyed.

The ultimate battle of Good vs. Evil, with none of the physical and fiscal complications standing in the middle of the battlefield. Just one group who believes in anger, pain and oppression - and another group across from them who believe in each other, and the power to lift each other up into a better place than they sit now.

We're in for a treat. Feel free to make comments, its just where my mind is currently as to what we'll see and the common themes in the film.