The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 105

[slimshady247]

SPOILER: Batman appears in this film.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

I put together the Gotham Observer:

Spoiler

 

[goth ham]

spoiler: Batman appears in this film.

spoiler:

Spoiler

I am speculating!!!! I have no idea what is actually going to happen!!!

 

[paulvonzeppelin]

Alright so I've been thinking a lot about the Rykin technology information we were given from the Mountain Dew website, and I think my random trains of thought have stumbled upon a common thread that this iteration of Nolan's batman saga has in common with his first film (BB).

I'm going to put this in spoiler tags, because I agree with Corey and think its important that those of us who want to explore these ideas before the film comes out use the tags in order to not spoil it by delving into the emotion behind the films. I think I may have thought of something that Nolan is trying to explore with the emotions in this final installment, and because emotion is a large reason all of us are so passionate about the subject at hand as well as a reason behind us going to see movies to begin with - I think its appropriate that I tag it.

Read at your own risk, feel free to call me an idiot if you think I'm completely off target with this:

Spoiler

So, I'll start with where I got confused and why I followed this train of thought to begin with. Ever since we've seen the photographs of the attack on the stock exchange I've been left with this lingering feeling of, "Yeah, but why?"

What could Bane's reasoning behind attacking the stock exchange possibly be? We know he kidnapped Pavel and faked Pavel's death with the blood transfusion machine in prologue, so we've always felt like Bane's major threat to Gotham involved some type of Thermo Nuclear device or a doomsday weapon. We extrapolated this because in some of the documents released during the Prologue event had details regarding Pavel's occupation on them. Granted, I don't have them in front of me now and can't remember exactly what it was he did for employment, but I think I'm close enough to suit my purpose.

If Bane is just going to blow up or decimate Gotham with some doomsday device that Pavel helps him build, then what the hell is the point of attacking the stock exchange? To get at the rich members of society right away? And, I personally think that the attack on the exchange might be one of his first appearances in Gotham altogether. So why start there? It just didn't add up to me, there was something we were missing. We got the missing piece with the Rykin information today.

If you think about it, any stock exchange is almost always the fiscal epicenter of any major metropolis (See also: Wall street). Another thing the stock exchange does, is give you some sort of route to the major financial players in any city - assuming you have a tool to access their records and information. With this new development from Rykin Technologies, I think we know why he attacks the stock exchange.

If he brings his program from Rykin (however he gets it, thats not the point of this post) to the stock exchange and is able to gain access to the financial background, important fiscal documents and accounts for the rich members of Gotham's society, then he can use that technology to wipe their digital fingerprints from any database they might be tucked in. Complete equality at the stroke of a key, perhaps?

Bane has always been marketed as a match for Batman not only in physique but also in mental capacity - and he's been billed as a genius from some reports that we've read (I think!?). Bane understands that destroying Gotham physically is a very temporary solution to a very permanent problem. Eventually, the people with money will find a way to prove they have wealth and the ability to rebuild Gotham - and they'll start the rebuilding process. They could even end up building Gotham back in their image, which to Bane - may be even worse than it originally was before he leveled all of the buildings.
Could this also be the reason construction sites are being vandalized per the newspaper article? To delay the rebuilding inevitably? The idea about the reasoning behind the construction sites being tampered with is a pretty thin line of thought, but I'm going to throw it out there and see what sticks.

He isn't willing to let that rebuilding happen. He needs a solution...something final. Using the Rykin program, he can destroy whatever digital image every citizen of Gotham has - or at least any citizen who has something to lose, that is. We also know that Batman gives chase to a thug on a motorcycle who we believe was present at the stock exchange attack, and that the thug has a computer-esque or tablet device that Batman investigates. Could this be related to the Rykin technology? I'm going to go out on a limb and say probably.

I think the thing that stuck out to me, is that without a digital identity (especially in this decade) members of society essentially stop becoming identifiable people. Think of it, our social security cards, our birth certificates, license plate numbers, registrations, businesses, taxes, homes, etc - everything is stored digitally. While this grants us a relative amount of comfort and convenience, it leaves us extremely vulnerable to this type of attack with Rykin.

I'm going to jump topic briefly and then come back to Rykin and the loss of digital identity - please try to stay with me, I understand this is a bit convoluted.

The film has always been pitched as a 'war' film. The gritty, war torn overtones in pictures and the various trailers have supported this. However, in any war you have two sides. I've constantly thought how is Nolan going to identify sides in his Batman 'war' film? What are they fighting over? Granted, I know that the criminals (for the most part) are going to side with Bane and the police will side with Batman in the final conflict over Gotham's soul, but I think in typical Nolan fashion - there is more at work here than at first there seems to be.

I also started thinking about the reasons we fight wars in general. Typically, we fight over property and rights, land and money, wealth and privelage. Specifically the right to retain that privelage and property or take someone else's that you don't rightfully own or deserve. But all in all, that's a pretty thin logic (even if its accurate) and surely Nolan must have something more interesting for us to bite into than just what shows at face value.

So, if Bane destroys Gotham physically with his doomsday device, and wipes out all of the digital identities of all of the members of Gotham's society - then what do they have left to fight for? Wait for it....

Their ideals.

Nolan's films have dealt in extremes most of the time, or at least shown a very extreme point of view in some variation. In this type of film, I can't help but think that most wealthy human beings identify themselves by what they own, or the cars they drive, or the jobs they have, or the boats they don't need, etc. Conversely, most poor human beings in Nolan's universe probably identify themselves by what they don't have; comfort, shelter, food, basic human amenities. Granted, this could be viewed as accurate for the world a lot of us live in today, but I don't want to label people as Rich or Poor in real life because that's not the way I personally think.

What if you take away everything both the rich and poor use to identify themselves? You take away the buildings, the cars, the homes, the credit cards, the bank account statements, the checkbooks, the financial records, etc. What are folks left with? They're barely even human beings anymore, folks. They stop being men and women, at least not to themselves or anyone around them in the same predicament. All they have left is what they believe in.

If they aren't men and women....they aren't corruptible. They act in accordance with what they believe at a very base human level. They stop being effected by outside influences, they become personifications....or...

.....Symbols. "Ideals, Mr. Wayne."

And I think that's where Nolan is drawing his war movies' battle lines. Bringing it all full circle for us, back to the roots of what drove Bruce to become Batman. Where the people that live in Gotham stop becoming John, or Selina, or Miranda - where they are all just simply a 'citizen of Gotham' standing behind whoever's ideals they find more relatable; Bane's or Batman's.

If Bane uses Rykin on Gotham, he steals it's identity. And Batman, acting as the symbol that he's become - the beacon of hope for the citizens trapped in Gotham to take their city back by force - leads the good people of Gotham against the tyrants who would seek to see it destroyed.

The ultimate battle of Good vs. Evil, with none of the physical and fiscal complications standing in the middle of the battlefield. Just one group who believes in anger, pain and oppression - and another group across from them who believe in each other, and the power to lift each other up into a better place than they sit now.

We're in for a treat. Feel free to make comments, its just where my mind is currently as to what we'll see and the common themes in the film.

I think this is a really good point! If you notice in big action movies, the economic impact is never explored and we know that in the real world that world trade markets and economies become uneasy during times of terrorism and emergency. Maybe Bane uses the threat of economic destruction to keep Gotham under his control and away from the federal government.

Plus it could be bringing it back full circle to when Ra's tried to destroy Gotham through economics!

 

[Reek]

No offense, but I think it is nitpicky to want spoiler tags in the spoiler forum. It can be mistaken that you are just out looking for a quarrel...

There are plenty of people that would like spoiler tags used in the spoiler forums. If you haven't noticed... Not many people discuss anything in the non-spoiler forums. But whatever, I'm not going to bother any one about it now.

As for starting a quarrel... yea that gets a big, emphatic

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

the Gotham Observer is a cool read, setting everything up before Bane takes over Gotham city

 

[The Joker]

I put together the Gotham Observer:

Spoiler

Great job

Harvey Dent Day festivities

 

[Rapunzel]

I think this is a really good point! If you notice in big action movies, the economic impact is never explored and we know that in the real world that world trade markets and economies become uneasy during times of terrorism and emergency. Maybe Bane uses the threat of economic destruction to keep Gotham under his control and away from the federal government.

Plus it could be bringing it back full circle to when Ra's tried to destroy Gotham through economics!

The big question is:

Spoiler

if Bane erases the citizens of Gotham digitally, what does that mean for the identity of Bruce Wayne? Not to mention his company/fortune.

 

[venus_ice]

https://***********/michaelbacall/statuses/215941803948515328

That's My Bat http://t.co/o88DWEyF

 

[Cassandra Cain]

Obviously the burglaries article on the Gotham Observer are Selina-related. I wonder if she's actually completely solo in her crimes, or if that group of men in the tv spot join her in some of her burglaries (since the man quoted in the article said he saw a group of people dressed in black). I particularly like the horoscopes; I'm sure they have something to do with the movie: "Although things seem hard, it's your job to rise up and face them"..."someone from your past will make a surprise appearence"..."you're going to meet someone who will change your life today".

 

[Dragon_316ca]

https://***********/michaelbacall/statuses/215941803948515328

 

[Travesty]

Obviously the burglaries article on the Gotham Observer are Selina-related. I wonder if she's actually completely solo in her crimes, or if that group of men in the tv spot join her in some of her burglaries (since the man quoted in the article said he saw a group of people dressed in black). I particularly like the horoscopes; I'm sure they have something to do with the movie: "Although things seem hard, it's your job to rise up and face them"..."someone from your past will make a surprise appearence"..."you're going to meet someone who will change your life today".

I think Leo is about Batman.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

https://***********/michaelbacall/statuses/215941803948515328

What?? LMAO!!!

 

[Rogzilla]

SPOILER: Batman appears in this film.

Spoiler

Ruined forever!

 

[Tonymosello]

I wish they made a print version of The Gotham Observer like they did for The Gotham Times

 

[Deserana]

https://***********/michaelbacall/statuses/215941803948515328

Either Nolan is the biggest troll the world has known or Warner have really f****d up the marketing.

 

[Anita18]

The big question is:

Spoiler

if Bane erases the citizens of Gotham digitally, what does that mean for the identity of Bruce Wayne? Not to mention his company/fortune.

Everyone knows what Wayne looks like. His identity is already pretty public. How to prove he has exactly the amount of wealth he does well....we'll have to see the movie.

Great analysis, Godmaul!

 

[TangerineKnight]

Either Nolan is the biggest troll the world has known or Warner have really f****d up the marketing.

Im pretty sure they're just in the middle of changing the bill boards.

 

[Deserana]

Plus where the hell is this music announcement!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Deserana]

Im pretty sure they're just in the middle of changing the bill boards.

I know

 

[Tonymosello]

Plus where the hell is this music announcement!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I know, I was really hoping it would happen that day, but it's been two days now...

 

[Jedm1991]

Adam Sandler is Robin?

 

[kvz5]

Thanks Rogue for the scans!

Interesting bit about the construction site. Didn't they shoot something in a construction site in Pittsburgh with JGL?

at my horoscope. So is Bruce Leo or Cancer?

 

[Travesty]

Thanks Rogue for the scans!

Interesting bit about the construction site. Didn't they shoot something in a construction site in Pittsburgh with JGL?

at my horoscope. So is Bruce Leo or Cancer?

I think he's Aquarius.

 

[Nevincer]

Out of curiousity, how did you manage it, Rogue? I was gonna try with print screen but when I saw the little window it was in I figured it would take too much effort.