The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 29

[dark_b]

the CIA would know in less then 50 hours that Pavel was not inside the plane. thats a fact.

i dont have a problem with it. i knwo that Nolan is a crowd pleaser.

 

[The_Raganork]

It's exactly what they did with Osama Bin Laden...and they had an intact body for that

 

[J.Howlett]

I probably shouldn't have brought up this topic of conversation....

 

[TinkerTailor]

the CIA would know in less then 50 hours that Pavel was not inside the plane. thats a fact.

i dont have a problem with it. i knwo that Nolan is a crowd pleaser.

So it buys Bane 50 hours. There you go. That's why he did it.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

the CIA would know in less then 50 hours that Pavel was not inside the plane. thats a fact.

i dont have a problem with it. i knwo that Nolan is a crowd pleaser.

50-70 hours, yes, possibly.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Wow, guys, really? I mean, really?

 

[Batfan16]

Something else:

Bane telling one of his henchmen to stay behind on the ship because "they expect one of us in the wreckage, brother" is really cool because it shows the devotion of the henchmen to Bane...

But then again, why didn't they just leave the guy in the bodybag on the plane to account for the extra man? I mean, the CIA are not going to know the difference, right? So the henchman sacrificing himself was pretty useless, wasn't it?

 

[The_Raganork]

50 hours is enough time.

They simply needed to get Pavel off C.I.A.'s radar and get him into the country.

And for two days for all intents and purposes he'd be dead. A DNA test would be done within hours and it'd say the body was Pavel's.

then they'd have to ship the body somewhere. lets say that takes a day.

Test it, that takes two days.

So in 3 days he's "dead" enough time for Bane to slip past the CIA with Pavel into the U.S.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I wash my hands of this thread. Because right now I am being summoned to do the dishes.

 

[batbax]

the CIA would know in less then 50 hours that Pavel was not inside the plane. thats a fact.

i dont have a problem with it. i knwo that Nolan is a crowd pleaser.

You work for the CIA? How do you know thats a "fact"? Facts are that you probably know next to nothing about how any of this stuff REALLY works. You just know what your told by whos in charge. You werent allowed to actually see osama bin ladens body, yet you Know hes dead. Ill leave it at that as far as how much anyone really knows about anything the government or CIA really does. Hence why in a superhero movie a situation like this is actually extremely realistic, especially as far as you or anyone else really knows.

 

[The_Raganork]

Something else:

Bane telling one of his henchmen to stay behind on the ship because "they expect one of us in the wreckage, brother" is really cool because it shows the devotion of the henchmen to Bane...

But then again, why didn't they just leave the guy in the bodybag on the plane to account for the extra man? I mean, the CIA are not going to know the difference, right? So the henchman sacrificing himself was pretty useless, wasn't it?

Because the body is doubling as Pavel!

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

 

[Steyin]

Hope that trailer description is fake. The football field scene sounds incredibly cheesy the way it's described there.

Its what happens though.

 

[J.Howlett]

Here's another thing about the prologue that flipped me out; the logo.

Considering the sweet logo representation we got with the announcement teaser, I'd just figured they'd use that for the opening of this film.

I was not prepared for what we actually got. It's definitely interesting...

 

[TheDragonator]

I see you still don't understand the difference between and DNA type. I rest my case. Have a nice day.

No, I'm saying is that they'd be able to tell Pavel wasn't dead because there is a tiny amount of evidence.

By that logic, this scenario is logical:

"Detective, you're alive! I thought you were dead!"
"What?"
"We found your hair in the carpet in this crime scene where a man's head was decapitated!
"That's because I was there to investigate the scene."
"But it's your hair! How did you survive!"

See how that makes no goddamn sense whatsoever?

 

[dark_b]

You work for the CIA? How do you know thats a "fact"? Facts are that you probably know next to nothing about how any of this stuff REALLY works. You just know what your told by whos in charge. You werent allowed to actually see osama bin ladens body, yet you Know hes dead. Ill leave it at that as far as how much anyone really knows about anything the government or CIA really does. Hence why in a superhero movie a situation like this is actually extremely realistic, especially as far as you or anyone else really knows.

because i know with my normal knowledge how much it would take for normal police to find out. and CIA is faster. a lot faster.

 

[jerkhero]

If the prologue is enough to cause this madness, the amount of nitpicking will be mindblowing when the film actually comes out.

 

[Batfan16]

Because the body is doubling as Pavel!

Oh, damn it! I have no idea how I missed that. It's late out here and all this futile debating is giving me a headache...

It's a really cool sequence, let's stop this useless nitpicking. It's not going to change anything.

 

[batbax]

If the prologue is enough to cause this madness, the amount of nitpicking will be mindblowing when the film actually comes out.

Its absurd. I can see catwomans hair falling the wrong way when she does a f'ing spin kick or something and someone coming here and starting an argument about how its physically impossible. THen they will give us a physics equation to prove their point. THen they will tell everyone who says it doesnt matter that they have double standards when it comes to nolans batfilms as compared to the hulk.

 

[TinkerTailor]

No, I'm saying is that they'd be able to tell Pavel wasn't dead because there is a tiny amount of evidence.

By that logic, this scenario is logical:

"Detective, you're alive! I thought you were dead!"
"What?"
"We found your hair in the carpet in this crime scene where a man's head was decapitated!
"That's because I was there to investigate the scene."
"But it's your hair! How did you survive!"

See how that makes no goddamn sense whatsoever?

 

[The_Raganork]

No, I'm saying is that they'd be able to tell Pavel wasn't dead because there is a tiny amount of evidence.

By that logic, this scenario is logical:

"Detective, you're alive! I thought you were dead!"
"What?"
"We found your hair in the carpet in this crime scene where a man's head was decapitated!
"That's because I was there to investigate the scene."
"But it's your hair! How did you survive!"

See how that makes no goddamn sense whatsoever?

their primary focus to test the body would be blood. Hair would be burned and dental would be destroyed. They could do Bone Marrow but its harder to ship Bone.

When they test the blood, it will come out to be Pavel and it'll take time for them to test the rest of him, enough time for Bane to smuggle Pavel into Gotham and the CIA is not going to look for Pavel under their noses

 

[hulk24]

50-70 hours, yes, possibly.

That's if they even try if it was a covert mission they will let the countries government deal with it and not even try to go after the flight. If it is in hostile or an enemy territory where it might be viewed as an act of war etc. The agent would have been briefed of this and not expecting bane do do what he did wouldn't have been worried but since the cia knew an agent was in the field possible on a covert mission they will NOT go after him or claim responsibility unless he was taken prisoner.

 

[gorillanesthsia]

because i know with my normal knowledge how much it would take for normal police to find out. and CIA is faster. a lot faster.

Do you realize how much ****ing red tape and protocol government agencies have to go through?

I'm done with this... this is ridiculous.

 

[oleander]

But the only DNA evidence implying he was on the plane is the blood. If they literally test any of the other bodies they will notice he's none of them. They aren't just going to say 'this is Pavel's blood, despite the fact that multiple people can have the same blood type. He's dead. CASE CLOSED'. They're going to check to see if any of the bodies are actually his.

If they "literally" test any of the other bodies? I don't even... what?

Okay, quick refresher in high school biology: blood type testing takes minutes to do. Stick some antibodies in a sample and watch it coagulate. You can do it in a dish in any high school lab. It also tells you jack squat, because there are only four types of blood in the world: A, B, AB, and O. So yay, you get part of it right, because there are indeed many, many people in the world who share the same blood type.

But NOBODY is saying "case closed" after that. Because NOBODY USES BLOOD TYPING AS A MEANS OF FORENSICS TESTING. You know why? Because it's NOT a means of forensics testing. It provides you with no information beyond "oh I'm a type B, when I go for a blood transfusion don't give me type A, or I'll coagulate." Blood typing, as people have pointed out many times already, is not the same thing at all as forensic DNA testing. (Which, incidentally, has a turnaround time of... I believe at least a week, by general trade standards. So you see what everyone has been saying about the blood transfusion being a means of buying Bane extra time to get Dr. Pavel Stateside? Yeah. CIA would be faster than a week, I have no doubt, but it still takes time.)

Yes, dental records are a better means of ascertaining identity. There's some truth in television: bones in general are better than tissue for that sort of testing, and it's also liable to survive a greater degree of trauma (tissue would probably have sustained too much damage to be viable in any sort of testing). Yes, the CIA could very well find bone fragments that would contradict whatever evidence the blood sample might give, once they really attempt to match up every presumed body on board with every blood sample and every tissue sample... but it takes TIME to do. Indubitably the CIA would perform a thorough investigation of what led to the crash, even without the suspicious twofold connection to Bane, but by the time they have conclusive evidence... where in the world would Bane and the reports-of-his-death-have-been-greatly-exaggerated Dr. Pavel be? Long gone. THAT, I think, is the point that we're all arguing around right now.

 

[paladinryan]

Suspension of disbelief? Not that hard.